I really wasn't big on TFA, which to me just felt very lengthy due to the constant deja-vus. But- let's not get ahead of ourselves, the man has talent and can surely deliver, regardless of one's stance on Force Awakens.

I would have preferred to see someone new, mainly because then I'd have no in-universe reference point on how to picture this directors vision, but it's way too early to tell if IX will suck. If anything, the story beats of The Last Jedi will probably have quite a bit more impact than the choice of director.

There are definitely directors I would have preferred, for the record.

Patty Jenkins would have been ideal. I'd LOVE to see her direct a Star Wars movie.

People need to blame Disney really, four directors have walked out already to do "creative differences" so what does that tell you?

Maybe if we all chipped we could buy the licence and make our own movie which will no doubt turn out to be a WW2 style gritty war film with Samurai Jack esque Jedi, Gunboats everywhere, loads of Clint Eastwood style eye intensity close ups and a ton of Top Gun references.

1 minute ago, Viktus106 said:

People need to blame Disney really, four directors have walked out already to do "creative differences" so what does that tell you?

It tells me they were probably not willing to do what was required of them.

Kathleen Kennedy has worked extremely hard to be very, VERY protective of the brand and of the quality of the product, and it shows. Whether you like the storylines or not, TFA and Rogue One have both been outstanding films in terms of production design and special effects, and at least solid in terms of scripting and characterisation.

These are directors used to getting their own way and they're being forced to bend, and they're not liking it.

I don't BLAME Disney for it, I thank them for it. I think we're getting better products because of it.

I've said it elsewhere; giving people what they THINK they want, often ends up with them realising they didn't actually want it after all; it takes serious guts to know that principle and stick to it even in the face of everyone making threads like this, but I for one, am really happy Star Wars is in the creative hands it is.

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

It tells me they were probably not willing to do what was required of them.

Kathleen Kennedy has worked extremely hard to be very, VERY protective of the brand and of the quality of the product, and it shows. Whether you like the storylines or not, TFA and Rogue One have both been outstanding films in terms of production design and special effects, and at least solid in terms of scripting and characterisation.

These are directors used to getting their own way and they're being forced to bend, and they're not liking it.

I don't BLAME Disney for it, I thank them for it. I think we're getting better products because of it.

I've said it elsewhere; giving people what they THINK they want, often ends up with them realising they didn't actually want it after all; it takes serious guts to know that principle and stick to it even in the face of everyone making threads like this, but I for one, am really happy Star Wars is in the creative hands it is.

I personally don't have a problem with JJ directing it. I think he done a good job with TFA and the Star Trek reboot. I think the way they tackled the monster of managing to restart an idea legacy without contradicting an entire television series was one heck of a challenge and I for one feel they accomplished it fantastically.

Your comment about giving people what they want, couldn't agree more. People wanted it to be like the original trilogy, it was and people moaned. If it was too different, people would have moaned. Honestly, I think people will moan even if a Boba Fett film came out and it was something along the lines of the latest Judge Dredd film, i.e it was him, with his helmet on, not saying much and just shooting people all day, every day, people would still moan because that wouldn't be an accurate representation of the character despite only have 15 minutes of screen time and about 4 lines in total.

****, the next film could have Dash Randar and Leebo being pursued by Thrawn in a ISD spewing Gunboats out and people would moan. Even if Leia turned up in a Naboo Starfighter to stop them. Even if Kylo Ren held the Falcon in place using the force to stop them from escaping, people would still hate him.

The point is, people moan about anything and everything because it will never meet the expectations they set in their head.

1 hour ago, Viktus106 said:

Maybe if we all chipped we could buy the licence and make our own movie which will no doubt turn out to be a WW2 style gritty war film with Samurai Jack esque Jedi, Gunboats everywhere, loads of Clint Eastwood style eye intensity close ups and a ton of Top Gun references.

To be honest, if it was pretty much a full length version of the TIE fighter anime I'd like it.

7 hours ago, Viktus106 said:

People need to blame Disney really, four directors have walked out already to do "creative differences" so what does that tell you?

Maybe if we all chipped we could buy the licence and make our own movie which will no doubt turn out to be a WW2 style gritty war film with Samurai Jack esque Jedi, Gunboats everywhere, loads of Clint Eastwood style eye intensity close ups and a ton of Top Gun references.

I'd go see that.

7 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Kathleen Kennedy has worked extremely hard to be very, VERY protective of the brand and of the quality of the product, and it shows.

She's the one bright spark in this situation that is giving me hope.

I'm not a TFA hater. I liked it despite its flaws.

14 hours ago, Oberron said:

in the time span of 30 years we went from propeller aircraft tossing out bombs by hand to the nuclear bomb. I think 30 years in starwars can have a very similar outcome and have bigger and scarier things. (the starkiller base was kinda lazy though, at least it wasn't the suncrusher)

Except that to build Death Stars the required the economic and military might of a galaxy-spanning Empire, stripping entire planets for resources, utilizing (by force, if necessary) the top scientists anywhere.

The First Order is the left-overs of a shattered remanant of a fragment of that Empire, shoved into the galactic wilderness after suing for peace with the newly reformed Republic.

So, an ill-equipped small bunch of fourth rate losers, hiding out on the galactic fringe can pull off secret superweapon development orders of magnitude more advanced (and expansive) than anything the Empire could manage. The First Order, unvelievably, has bigger everything: superweapon(s), star destroyers, super star destroyers...

Work on the Tarkin Initiative began *at least* 22 years before the Battle of Yavin.

The First Order wasn't formed until something like 5-21 ABY. With Starkiller Base ready to go in 34 ABY. This means FO engineers built something 3 times bigger in diameter (27 times more volume) in the roughly the same amount of time...while also engineering better TIE fighters (multiple variants thereof), better walkers, better star destroyers, etc...all without the full resources a galaxy-wide Empire could provide.

Sounds like a terrible story to me. It discredits that which came before, for no observable benefit other than lens flare. That is the J. J. way. Ham-fisted wrecking of two scifi universes...so far.

Throw in some lame "let's wreck the very heroes of the first trilogy*" angle and TFA is, other than a few likeable new characters and some cool tech, a total disaster.

*What story purpose does it serve to make Han and Leia's marriage fall apart? Why must Luke, who truly became a transcendant Jedi figure at the end of ROTJ, fail so soon and so completely as to run away and hide? Why must the celebration with the Ewoks, where smiles abound, be the (apparently) last time these victorious heroes were happy?

7 hours ago, Viktus106 said:

People need to blame Disney really, four directors have walked out already to do "creative differences" so what does that tell you?

Maybe if we all chipped we could buy the licence and make our own movie which will no doubt turn out to be a WW2 style gritty war film with Samurai Jack esque Jedi, Gunboats everywhere, loads of Clint Eastwood style eye intensity close ups and a ton of Top Gun references.

Let's see, Trank pretty much killed any chances of working for a big budget film in Hollywood himself. Lord & Miller sounds like they were not adapting their filming style to the type of film they were supposed to be making. Trevorrow sounds like he got a bit full of himself, which can easily be seen with how he defends Book of Henry. The Edwards situation is different, because while he was essentially replaced, it was done with his full cooperation.

I am sad that Kennedy's grand experiment seems to have failed. But if Rian Johnson can manage it just fine, I'm sure other new voices can be found.

Not gonna lie, I kinda hoped Brad Bird would've gotten IX, though I knew that would be difficult with Incredibles 2 in the pipeline.

Sithborg, why did you have to mention Brad Bird?!? Now I'm gonna be depressed for the rest of the day... I've probably seen Iron Giant about as many times as I've seen the Star Wars movies other than IV and V... I wish Bird directed more than two or three movies a decade...

23 minutes ago, evanger said:

Except that to build Death Stars the required the economic and military might of a galaxy-spanning Empire, stripping entire planets for resources, utilizing (by force, if necessary) the top scientists anywhere.

The First Order is the left-overs of a shattered remanant of a fragment of that Empire, shoved into the galactic wilderness after suing for peace with the newly reformed Republic.

So, an ill-equipped small bunch of fourth rate losers, hiding out on the galactic fringe can pull off secret superweapon development orders of magnitude more advanced (and expansive) than anything the Empire could manage. The First Order, unvelievably, has bigger everything: superweapon(s), star destroyers, super star destroyers...

Work on the Tarkin Initiative began *at least* 22 years before the Battle of Yavin.

The First Order wasn't formed until something like 5-21 ABY. With Starkiller Base ready to go in 34 ABY. This means FO engineers built something 3 times bigger in diameter (27 times more volume) in the roughly the same amount of time...while also engineering better TIE fighters (multiple variants thereof), better walkers, better star destroyers, etc...all without the full resources a galaxy-wide Empire could provide.

Sounds like a terrible story to me. It discredits that which came before, for no observable benefit other than lens flare. That is the J. J. way. Ham-fisted wrecking of two scifi universes...so far.

Throw in some lame "let's wreck the very heroes of the first trilogy*" angle and TFA is, other than a few likeable new characters and some cool tech, a total disaster.

*What story purpose does it serve to make Han and Leia's marriage fall apart? Why must Luke, who truly became a transcendant Jedi figure at the end of ROTJ, fail so soon and so completely as to run away and hide? Why must the celebration with the Ewoks, where smiles abound, be the (apparently) last time these victorious heroes were happy?

I never said it made sense economic wise.

Does anyone remember an old website containing what the poster claimed was a script for Episode VII -- this was, like, a decade before Disney? It was, of course, a hoax; I believe the story was that the poster had made the website to demonstrate how unreliable information found on the Internet was. I remember actually thinking that the script was kind of cool, though, and I'd like to read it again to see what I think of it now.

Found it. Not actually a script, rather story summaries, and they're pretty bad. Might be an amusing read, though.

14 hours ago, StevenO said:

What is the catalyst for this big change that is taking technology that has been around for thousands of years and suddenly increasing it exponentially? If you are looking at things you may consider how long each "generation" of aircraft has been operating on earth. There was some rapid development of airpower during WWI and WWII but since that time where we've reached the Jet age the length of each generation of warplane is getting longer and longer. They may finally be looking at being replaced but the F-15s are based on tech that is more than 40 years old and how long have the F-22s been in service? If you think service life doubles with each new generation how long before we are more than a century between new aircraft?

The catalyst for a lot of changes in star wars is "the writers said so" for an in universe explanation, Palpatine being in charge and funneling funds into top secret projects. I haven't read the new books but the super weapon from tfa could have been a left over. As for life of service in the sw universe it is all over the map and isn't really that comparable to real life.

27 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

8 hours ago, Viktus106 said:

I am sad that Kennedy's grand experiment seems to have failed.

How so ? By my reckoning she's succeeded immensely.

On 9/12/2017 at 11:58 AM, Thormind said:

Isnt it a bad sign for episode 8 if they are changing the next director before it's released? I really want this movie to be as awesome as FA and Rogue.

Not really. Rian Johnson(director of 8) was never in line to direct Episode 9, that would be Colin Treverrow, director of, most notably, Jurassic World. Treverrow was dropped for reasons completely unrelated to Episode 8, namely that his passion project after getting lucky with the completely average Jurassic World was by all accounts a complete dumpster fire(at least one reviewer compared it unfavorably to The Room). At least that's probably why, no one is going to come out and say what exactly the issue was.

14 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

How so ? By my reckoning she's succeeded immensely.

Yeah, Kathleen Kennedy seems to be doing a great job so far!

My one minor picky thing is that I wish she'd kept a little more of the old canon. I don't see why the Old Republic stuff, the Clone Wars comics, even the Dark Times comics can't peacefully coexist with the new stuff! I do see why the Vong and Legacy had to go though.

1 hour ago, evanger said:

*snip*

I don't want to really go point-by-point, but I'm kind of confounded by what you're putting here. It would have been boring to try and explain all of this during the movie; I felt they explained enough of what they had to so as to keep the plot moving ("I stole it from Unkar Plutt. He stole it from the Irving Boys, who stole it from Ducain" or "In order for that amount of power to be contained, that base would need some kind of thermal oscillator..."). We get it without going all Ken Burns on the matter! The Falcon was stolen, and hit the weak point for massive damage.

If you really want the backstory and explanations, please check out the Aftermath books and Bloodline . I really, really enjoyed Bloodline since it's all about Leia and very political. The Aftermath books were okay, they have some neat characters and some (not full) insight into Palpatine's Contingency and the actually-capable people that left for the Unknown Regions. Let it be suffice to say the Empire's best and brightest were not the people that lost the Battle of Jakku.

As for resources etc, first, I got the impression the Starkiller weapon was built into a planet or habitable moon. They didn't have to construct the entire volume of the thing, just add facilities, thermal oscillators, and whatever the heck turns solar matter into quintessence. It's not hard science and I'm okay with that in my movie about finding the last space wizard. Second, funding for that project and pretty much everything else was garnered from people in the New Republic. Lots of tax revenue being appropriated, wealthy individuals sympathetic to the ideals of the Empire donating time and money and resources, and good old-fashioned piracy. That said, it also seems to me that most of the real hurdle of Starkiller Base and Seinar-Jamus' TIE squadrons and so on is actual processable resources, of which there seem to be plenty in the Unknown Regions. Space is big! Who knows if Sloane and Snoke went all World Devastator on a few systems in a giant space-strip-mining operation.

Part of the fun in TFA and the new canon in general is the mystery. Who is Snoke? Why was Rey on Jakku? Where did Finn come from? Can Poe get any more dashing? I'm hoping for a satisfactory answer to some of these in the next two Saga films, but I don't need every detail. The past of these characters isn't as important as the actions they take moving forward, and that's why I'm watching.

Edit: oh and for what it's worth, I enjoy Han and Leia's romance in the OT just fine but they are terrible for each other. Something else they touch on in Bloodline actually! Han doesn't like staying in one place, especially when there's nothing for him to do. Leia is committed to making the New Republic work without falling into the same dangerous traps as the Old Republic or the Empire. They have no reason to stay together, personally! Love is great but it shouldn't ever force you to compromise your principles, sort of thing. Just my two cents.

10 hours ago, TheHumanHydra said:

and 2) that Leia is in a golden bikini, because it objectifies women.

I'm going to have to take issue with this point. The golden bikini was not a flaw of Return of the Jedi. Yes, Leia was objectified as a woman in that scene, but it wasn't for the sake of fan-service. It was to show how despicable and evil Jabba was. Jabba was the one who put her in the bikini and objectified her. He literally saw her as an object to own. And that was portrayed in the movie as a terrible thing to do. The movie basically out-right tells us that objectifying women is evil. And then Leia strangles him to death with the chains he used to bind her. Heck, if you're going for the feminist angle, that's the most overtly feminist scene in all of Star Wars. A woman liberating herself through the very chains that were used to hold her down.

Sorry for the rant, but that comment just really struck a nerve with me.

9 minutes ago, Underachiever599 said:

I'm going to have to take issue with this point. The golden bikini was not a flaw of Return of the Jedi. Yes, Leia was objectified as a woman in that scene, but it wasn't for the sake of fan-service. It was to show how despicable and evil Jabba was. Jabba was the one who put her in the bikini and objectified her. He literally saw her as an object to own. And that was portrayed in the movie as a terrible thing to do. The movie basically out-right tells us that objectifying women is evil. And then Leia strangles him to death with the chains he used to bind her. Heck, if you're going for the feminist angle, that's the most overtly feminist scene in all of Star Wars. A woman liberating herself through the very chains that were used to hold her down.

Sorry for the rant, but that comment just really struck a nerve with me.

I wouldn't necessarily say that there was no intent of fan-service, but I agree that the objectification was kind of the point and certainly wasn't portrayed as a positive thing.

On 9/12/2017 at 9:57 AM, BlodVargarna said:

This part is really bad news:

" Lucasfilm says that Abrams will co-write the film with Chris Terrio, the screenwriter for Argo, Justice League , and Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice ."

Batman v Superman was one of the worst movies I've ever seen.

Argo was actually pretty good, though... And I'll say I really enjoyed the cinematography of TFA, I thought it very similar to the originals with a bit of extra flair from J.J. I'm not disappointed to see him back on, I'm just wondering why he left in the first place. And I think Disney just hired and fired until they got him back.

18 minutes ago, Underachiever599 said:

I'm going to have to take issue with this point. The golden bikini was not a flaw of Return of the Jedi. Yes, Leia was objectified as a woman in that scene, but it wasn't for the sake of fan-service. It was to show how despicable and evil Jabba was. Jabba was the one who put her in the bikini and objectified her. He literally saw her as an object to own. And that was portrayed in the movie as a terrible thing to do. The movie basically out-right tells us that objectifying women is evil. And then Leia strangles him to death with the chains he used to bind her. Heck, if you're going for the feminist angle, that's the most overtly feminist scene in all of Star Wars. A woman liberating herself through the very chains that were used to hold her down.

Sorry for the rant, but that comment just really struck a nerve with me.

Might as well say Django Unchained was racist because it showed black people being enslaved.

Context matters.

9 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Might as well say Django Unchained was racist because it showed black people being enslaved.

Context matters.

Ask Spike Lee what he thinks about Tarantino's racism.

Sorry for derail.

TFA was ok. It rebooted a fantastic franchise that frankly needed "to set thing right." It was imperfect, but so was ANH. In fact the only perfect movie ever made was The Big Lebowski. If you disagree with that statement, I will get all Walter Sobchak on you.

I'll watch Argo to see if this Terrio guys is to be trusted.

13 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

Ask Spike Lee what he thinks about Tarantino's racism.

Sorry for derail.

Quote

He may not have seen it, but the film director Spike Lee already has an opinion about “Django Unchained.” In a recent interview with Vibe, he said he would not watch Quentin Tarantino’s latest film , set in the antebellum South, which opened in theaters on Tuesday. “I can’t speak on it ’cause I’m not gonna see it,” he said. “The only thing I can say is it’s disrespectful to my ancestors, to see that film.”

https://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/25/spike-lee-goes-after-django-unchained/?mcubz=0

He may not have seen it, but the film director Spike Lee already has an opinion ...

Yeah... I'm going to need an educated opinion.

As much as I enjoy making fun of TFA, I really did enjoy watching it, too. Yeah, the plot was largely recycled, but I enjoyed the characters (especially the return of Harrison Ford's snarkiness and roguish charm), and the redesigned Stormtrooper armor, TIE Fighters, etc. were familiar while still being new.

Starkiller Base was a bit over-the-top, but fortunately I was able to kind of tune it out as, "Blah, blah, blah, GIANT, DEADLY WEAPON TO DESTROY , blah blah," and not get bogged down in how ridiculous the details are. Even if its weapon is thoroughly implausible, at least it looked epically dramatic on screen (one reason I'm far more forgiving with movies than I am with books).

At the end of the day, I expect there will be a lot of cheesiness and eye-roll-worthy moments in Abrams' film, but I also expect to thoroughly enjoy it; especially because if he does copy Episode VI, that means he'll probably re-include the best part: the epic space battle between two massive fleets!