6 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

Do you even Star Wars bro?

That's why you should read the whole thing :3

With Force Awakens, everyone was expecting it to be as good as the originals, but the problem is those originals have aged, and the style of making movies has changed. Like I said, I think J.J was simply trying to play it safe by rehashing the story of the first movie, because it had been several years since a really good star wars movie was made so who knows how the fanbase would react?

I for one enjoyed the movie because I went expecting "not star wars", in other words I knew it had been a while since anyone really tried a big screen star wars so I was willing to cut it some slack.

The dogfights they had were very enjoyable, I loved the whole scene when Rey and Finn are trying to run from the FO Fighters because it showed the Imperials as actual competent pilots.

The Force is just lazy writing so I'm not getting into that.

I don't know off the top of my head who directed Rogue One and how long it was before it started production after Force Awakens, but I like to think that Episode 7 sparked the glorious flame that is Rogue One. That movie is one of my favorite movies of all time.

TL;DR You're not going to get that same thrill or nostalgia from the original movies because the way movies move and are made are different now than they were years ago.

Is good. No?

19 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:

Is good. No?

23 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:

Is good. No?

Obi Wan's catch phrase works well in this situation.

6 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Oh bays movies?! Bays movies are obviously not rehashes, they are remakes with their own terrible story and plot. the other movies you listed are rehashes. And no you're not obligated to like them, but you can't tell me you hate them because of the plot when their the exact same. id you dislike them because of character performances, pacing, lighting effects, etc. or even the argument it's copying the plot from a previous movie I can understand. But you can't tell me you hate johnnys chocolate factory and love genes simply because of the story. Same goes for TFA and ANH.

Sure you can. Especially since this ISNT a remake, it's a continuous story. The starkiller base planet killer thing not only is utterly lazy and breaks disbelief but it affects earlier stories. Now the Death Stars are robbed a bit of awesome by making a bigger badderer Death Star.

5 minutes ago, The Inquisitor said:

Sure you can. Especially since this ISNT a remake, it's a continuous story. The starkiller base planet killer thing not only is utterly lazy and breaks disbelief but it affects earlier stories. Now the Death Stars are robbed a bit of awesome by making a bigger badderer Death Star.

in the time span of 30 years we went from propeller aircraft tossing out bombs by hand to the nuclear bomb. I think 30 years in starwars can have a very similar outcome and have bigger and scarier things. (the starkiller base was kinda lazy though, at least it wasn't the suncrusher)

6 minutes ago, Oberron said:

in the time span of 30 years we went from propeller aircraft tossing out bombs by hand to the nuclear bomb. I think 30 years in starwars can have a very similar outcome and have bigger and scarier things. (the starkiller base was kinda lazy though, at least it wasn't the suncrusher)

But we haven't reached technological saturation yet, whereas the Star Wars galaxy has nearly reached the pinnacle of science and technology. They've had no change for a thousand years, so sudden massive increases in weapon size is a tad stupid. The Empire hid the Death Stars in the Maw cluster, and had reasonable resources to do so. Compare that to the First Order, who are a rebellion hiding from the New Republic as a smaller faction.

It's the equivalent of the Rebellion coming up with the Death Star instead of the Empire. Not only was it lazy, it was - is - inconceivable.

26 minutes ago, Oberron said:

in the time span of 30 years we went from propeller aircraft tossing out bombs by hand to the nuclear bomb. I think 30 years in starwars can have a very similar outcome and have bigger and scarier things. (the starkiller base was kinda lazy though, at least it wasn't the suncrusher)

I am betting SW went through a similar technological leap forward...25,000 years ago. The galaxy has had a fairly stable technology base for 25,000 years but in the last 30, things went nuts. Does not compute.

5 hours ago, Jadotch said:

I thought his first fight was when Luke got knocked out by a Tusken Raider.

I stand corrected! he also got passed around the burn bus by Han and Leia hard enough it might count. anyway my point s he has an arc, you know? loser to bruiser over multiple years

22 minutes ago, Astech said:

But we haven't reached technological saturation yet, whereas the Star Wars galaxy has nearly reached the pinnacle of science and technology. They've had no change for a thousand years, so sudden massive increases in weapon size is a tad stupid. The Empire hid the Death Stars in the Maw cluster, and had reasonable resources to do so. Compare that to the First Order, who are a rebellion hiding from the New Republic as a smaller faction.

It's the equivalent of the Rebellion coming up with the Death Star instead of the Empire. Not only was it lazy, it was - is - inconceivable.

thank you! i got a completely blank drooly stare when i tried to make this point with a friend. like he couldnt comprehend that a project of that magnitude requires time and resources

8 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

It's a 'hyper-lightspeed' weapon, with a beam that propagates through hyperspace. I just assume that the red light from the weapon is visible 'instantaineously' to all points with line of sight. That's how the entire galaxy knew what happened and also knew the location of starkiller base.

in the film you see it moving slowly accross the sky at variably speeds, so no. and it also doesnt explain how the beam twists, splits apart, and homes in on the multiple planets... so stupid

9 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

So a new hope was really bad to? Because TFA was just a rehash. And it's what the fan base was shouting for at the time. JJ did alright, all things considered. TFA isn't perfect but none of the Star Wars movies are, even empire. So I think bringing him back now might help episode 9.

Now this brother gets it. My thoughts exactly.

1 minute ago, Vontoothskie said:

in the film you see it moving slowly accross the sky at variably speeds, so no. and it also doesnt explain how the beam twists, splits apart, and homes in on the multiple planets... so stupid

The 'energy beam' is made up of supercharged nanobot droids that fly through hyperspace under their own guidance, emiting a bright red glow of destructive energy.

hey I'm trying. Basically you either accept that it makes as much sense as spaceships screaming in the void or a ship without a hyperdrive flying between three different star systems in what looks like a few days.

Man I love this so much. It just shows how people have difference in opinions, even when it comes to Star Wars *audible gasps*.

Ive heard of people who hate rogue one and hate force awakens

ive heard of people who think force awakens is great but rogue one is garbage.

ive heard of people who think rogue one is a masterpiece but force awakens is dreadful.

There is no consensus on whether the new films are both good, both bad, or one is bad and the other is good.

Learn to live with the idea that people's opinions are different and somewhere on this forum, someone's favorite movie is the Phantom Menace.

Goodness that last sentence hurt to type.

15 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

The 'energy beam' is made up of supercharged nanobot droids that fly through hyperspace under their own guidance, emiting a bright red glow of destructive energy.

hey I'm trying. Basically you either accept that it makes as much sense as spaceships screaming in the void or a ship without a hyperdrive flying between three different star systems in what looks like a few days.

you didnt finish that either/or.

i choose the other option, i dont accept it because its bad. its the "midochlorean count" of force awakens. it seriously damaged my enthusiasm for star wars, which had survived the prequels intact. Force awakens wasnt thematically a star wars movie, it was the soulless husk that George Lucas's 4 billion dollars shed after metorphasis. Disney has the legal right to make star wars movies, but I dont have to claim theyre good if theyre ****.

P.s. Rogue One was great, so Disney can make good movies. its just abrahms isnt the guy

5 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

you didnt finish that either/or.

i choose the other option, i dont accept it because its bad. its the "midochlorean count" of force awakens. it seriously damaged my enthusiasm for star wars, which had survived the prequels intact. Force awakens wasnt thematically a star wars movie, it was the soulless husk that George Lucas's 4 billion dollars shed after metorphasis. Disney has the legal right to make star wars movies, but I dont have to claim theyre good if theyre ****.

P.s. Rogue One was great, so Disney can make good movies. its just abrahms isnt the guy

Sorry, just take out the 'either'.

My SW enthusiasm did not survive the prequels. TPM dissappointed, AOTC stuck a knife covered in sand right in my heart. The clone wars cartoons slowly brought that spark back, and ROTS almost redeemed the trilogy, but silly choreographed sabre fights and the all too tidy ending just seemed so artificial when viewed multiple times. Those movies also lacked what the OT hade in spades ♠️: heart ❤️. The characters were alive, vibrant, their adventures were fun, mysterious, tragic, dramatic. This was something that SW lacked for decades until TFA exploded on the screen with adventurous fun and intriguing, funny, and mysterious characters in a continuation of the story going in an unknown direction. No one can really say that they know what's going to happen in the next two episodes. That alone makes these movies better than the staleness of the prequels.

oh and Rogue one was awesome.

1 hour ago, Oberron said:

in the time span of 30 years we went from propeller aircraft tossing out bombs by hand to the nuclear bomb. I think 30 years in starwars can have a very similar outcome and have bigger and scarier things. (the starkiller base was kinda lazy though, at least it wasn't the suncrusher)

What is the catalyst for this big change that is taking technology that has been around for thousands of years and suddenly increasing it exponentially? If you are looking at things you may consider how long each "generation" of aircraft has been operating on earth. There was some rapid development of airpower during WWI and WWII but since that time where we've reached the Jet age the length of each generation of warplane is getting longer and longer. They may finally be looking at being replaced but the F-15s are based on tech that is more than 40 years old and how long have the F-22s been in service? If you think service life doubles with each new generation how long before we are more than a century between new aircraft?

53 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

Man I love this so much. It just shows how people have difference in opinions, even when it comes to Star Wars *audible gasps*.

Ive heard of people who hate rogue one and hate force awakens

ive heard of people who think force awakens is great but rogue one is garbage.

ive heard of people who think rogue one is a masterpiece but force awakens is dreadful.

There is no consensus on whether the new films are both good, both bad, or one is bad and the other is good.

Learn to live with the idea that people's opinions are different and somewhere on this forum, someone's favorite movie is the Phantom Menace.

Goodness that last sentence hurt to type.

I wonder where those people who HATE Rogue One are at and if they're really even Star Wars fans because I don't remember encountering them.

40 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Sorry, just take out the 'either'.

My SW enthusiasm did not survive the prequels. TPM dissappointed, AOTC stuck a knife covered in sand right in my heart. The clone wars cartoons slowly brought that spark back, and ROTS almost redeemed the trilogy, but silly choreographed sabre fights and the all too tidy ending just seemed so artificial when viewed multiple times. Those movies also lacked what the OT hade in spades ♠️: heart ❤️. The characters were alive, vibrant, their adventures were fun, mysterious, tragic, dramatic. This was something that SW lacked for decades until TFA exploded on the screen with adventurous fun and intriguing, funny, and mysterious characters in a continuation of the story going in an unknown direction. No one can really say that they know what's going to happen in the next two episodes. That alone makes these movies better than the staleness of the prequels.

oh and Rogue one was awesome.

cant really argue with that. i just hink Finn is the only decent new character on either side and for the first time in my life im considering skipping a Star Wars film. dont need more Abrahms in my life

9 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

cant really argue with that. i just hink Finn is the only decent new character on either side and for the first time in my life im considering skipping a Star Wars film. dont need more Abrahms in my life

The only one I skipped was AotC. Dark times.

33 minutes ago, StevenO said:

I wonder where those people who HATE Rogue One are at and if they're really even Star Wars fans because I don't remember encountering them.

Encountered someone today who talked about their disgust with Rogue One for the lack of "soul" in the characters and how he only cared when the droid died and didn't care at all about the rest.

Bring it. I enjoyed TFA, even if they played it safe.

Talking about Star Wars movie opinions is fun...so here are my opinions. I enjoy watching parts of all of them.

1. New Hope - Amazing, near perfect movie.

2. Empire - Amazing, near perfect movie

3. Return of the Jedi - Flawed movie, with incredible character arcs coming to a conclusion. Luke's final fight with Vader is one of the best scenes in all of Star Wars.

4. Force Awakens - Fun movie with good characters but copied plot. Finn, Rey, and Kylo are all interesting in their own way. Finn in particular is an immediately relatable character that in my opinion carrys the movie. All three characters are "incomplete" in significant ways and need arcs they have to get to become fully realized. Finn less so since he is already likeable and understandable. Opinions on Kylo and Rey depend dramatically on how the story plays out. Kylo is at minimum easy to hate but still kind of sympathize with as a flawed bad guy. Rey is somewhat boring but interesting enough as she constantly uses anger when fighting, and clearly isnt just the "good" character. Go back and watch her fight scene with Kylo at the end, she only has the advantage over him when she is full of hatred. There is more going on there particularly with how quick she is with the force. Even if she ends up being just a good Jedi I think its going to be a rough road to get there. Still of the opinion that Finn should be the main protagonist in the film, and I hope Episode 8 drives that home and puts Kylo and Rey in a more supporting role like all Solos should be. Last point on TFA....yes the plot is a copy and yes that was annoying....but the "its a bigger Death Star" thing.....I guess it was necessary to make the Empire a threat again as the First Order. The only other way the Empire comes back in one movie is from within via political means and a coup within the rebel power structure....we have seen that already to with Phantom Menace. Suppose I would have prefered a plot where the Empire was at a disadvantage to the good guys...save for 2 super powerful Sith wrecking everyone as they scrape the empir s way back to being a threat. But not sure that works for mass audiences who want to see the rebels as rebels and not the other way around.

5. Rogue One - It had good cool looking action scenes with terrible characters and a video game plot. Galen and Krenic were fun and interesting with relatable/understandable motivations. I liked Baze Malbus to since he seemed just as miserable to be hanging out with the cast as I was. Every other character was generally hard to watch or listen to on screen. Go back and watch Saving Private Ryan for an example of a "good" war movie. Thats what Disney wanted to make. They ended up making Call of Duty instead. When I rewatch this movie I fast forward to the Battle of Scarif and ignore the fact that i dont care about any of the characters since the rest of it is unbearable to sit through a second time. Dont get me wrong its a cool sweet space battle movie it just has no soul. Jyn Erso seems so disinterested in being in her own movie...her primary emotion is disinterest. They made a textbook mistake with their main character. During the first 1/3 of the movie they try to "tell" you why Jyn is interesting and how she has such a dodgy past as a rogue and a criminal.....but they dont show you any of that. A rebel commander literaly sits their telling the audience, "Jyn is an Anti-Hero, thats cool right?" Her speeches are some of the worst written and delivered dialogue in any Star Wars movie (setting aside the hot mess that was the other prequels, better dialogue than the prequels is not the standard we are shooting for). Cut out 75% of the dirty dozen and just have Jyn, Cassian, K2SO, and Baze try to get the plans. Then give all 3 characters and the robot a back story in the same movie, give Galen more screen time and cut Tarkin and Dad Joke Vader scenes. Then maybe I like more than the last 1/3rd of Rogue One. I had no interest in nearly every main character besides Krenic/Galen and that makes it a tough one to enjoy for anything other than the spectical.

6. Phantom Menace - Bad movie but fun to watch a handful of the plotless scenes towards the end.

7. The other two have maybe 2-3 scenes each I would willingly rewatch.

To date, J.J. Abrams has contributed exactly ZERO enduring projects for my entertainment. (I know, opinions vary...) Episode VII and a few of J.J.'s other projects provided one viewing worth of entertainment, while the majority of his work has simply been the sort of thing that I found mediocre. Given that I have better than mediocre options for entertainment, that means J.J. is at his best worthy of a single viewing, and usually isn't even good for that much.

I liked Rogue One, and I like Rebels, so I will not blame the lack of quality Star Wars on Disney. However, I will say that I don't think that VII was in any respect superior to the prequels; okay, so maybe the effects were better. However, from a narrative standpoint and from a character standpoint, I think the prequels were SUPERIOR to VII. And, yes, that is even considering the dysfunctional relationship of Anakin and Padme, and Anakin's co-dependency... (Really, could Anakin actually make any decisions or uphold any conviction without either Padme, Palpatine or Obi-wan to support him???)

Furthermore, I would gladly accept the ridiculous Galaxy Gun, Sun Crusher and Yuuzhan Vong back into the fold if it meant we could avoid deleting character and story arcs in the service of "playing it safe". Over the three movies of the original trilogy, we saw Han and Leia grow and change, just so that VII could delete all of that and return them both to what they'd been doing at the start of IV. Luke goes to all the trouble to become a Jedi, and apparently like the old EU, he builds an academy. However, in the new continuity, he doesn't see fit to keep a close eye on and be prepared to defend the academy against his nephew whom was sent to him because Leia and Han couldn't handle his anger issues. (The potential to go Dark Side was obvious in Ben, so how exactly was Luke taken by surprise?) All of that just so that after "The Return of the Jedi", we can jump straight back to "The Last Jedi"....

I know there are narrative excuses for the reset button of Ep. VII, but that's all they are- excuses. In reality, our new saga (if its worthy of the label "saga"...) simply hit a lazy reset to avoid having to advance a plot and deal with changing conditions and changing characters. Luke's academy had to be murdered by Vader 2.0 so that we could again have a galaxy with nearly extinct Jedi. The New Republic had to become a bunch of oblivious chumps and massively disarm themselves so that the Empire 2.0 could rise up and the only real opponents would be a rag-tag Rebel Alliance,..., er, I mean, Resistance. All the while, how do we know that its the First Order and not the Galactic Empire? Because everything is BIGGER!!!! And, Vader 2.0, despite having already murdered Luke's whole academy, is still an indecisive whiner who seemingly isn't REALLY committed to the Dark Side, yet.

Never mind. End rant, here. I didn't really have much hope after VII, and VIII looks uninspired. Adding J.J. as the director for IX just fits the trend, from my perspective.

15 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

Batman v Superman was one of the worst movies I've ever seen.

I tend to refer to that film as "lex luthor versus stupid people". I agree it was an awful film - the fact that he's the scriptwriter concerns me more than JJ being the director.

8 hours ago, Warlon said:

I don't know off the top of my head who directed Rogue One

The same guy who directed the more recent Godzilla film, I believe.

2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Talking about Star Wars movie opinions is fun...so here are my opinions. I enjoy watching parts of all of them.

1. New Hope - Amazing, near perfect movie.

2. Empire - Amazing, near perfect movie

3. Return of the Jedi - Flawed movie, with incredible character arcs coming to a conclusion. Luke's final fight with Vader is one of the best scenes in all of Star Wars.

4. Force Awakens - Fun movie with good characters but copied plot. Finn, Rey, and Kylo are all interesting in their own way. Finn in particular is an immediately relatable character that in my opinion carrys the movie. All three characters are "incomplete" in significant ways and need arcs they have to get to become fully realized. Finn less so since he is already likeable and understandable. Opinions on Kylo and Rey depend dramatically on how the story plays out. Kylo is at minimum easy to hate but still kind of sympathize with as a flawed bad guy. Rey is somewhat boring but interesting enough as she constantly uses anger when fighting, and clearly isnt just the "good" character. Go back and watch her fight scene with Kylo at the end, she only has the advantage over him when she is full of hatred. There is more going on there particularly with how quick she is with the force. Even if she ends up being just a good Jedi I think its going to be a rough road to get there. Still of the opinion that Finn should be the main protagonist in the film, and I hope Episode 8 drives that home and puts Kylo and Rey in a more supporting role like all Solos should be. Last point on TFA....yes the plot is a copy and yes that was annoying....but the "its a bigger Death Star" thing.....I guess it was necessary to make the Empire a threat again as the First Order. The only other way the Empire comes back in one movie is from within via political means and a coup within the rebel power structure....we have seen that already to with Phantom Menace. Suppose I would have prefered a plot where the Empire was at a disadvantage to the good guys...save for 2 super powerful Sith wrecking everyone as they scrape the empir s way back to being a threat. But not sure that works for mass audiences who want to see the rebels as rebels and not the other way around.

5. Rogue One - It had good cool looking action scenes with terrible characters and a video game plot. Galen and Krenic were fun and interesting with relatable/understandable motivations. I liked Baze Malbus to since he seemed just as miserable to be hanging out with the cast as I was. Every other character was generally hard to watch or listen to on screen. Go back and watch Saving Private Ryan for an example of a "good" war movie. Thats what Disney wanted to make. They ended up making Call of Duty instead. When I rewatch this movie I fast forward to the Battle of Scarif and ignore the fact that i dont care about any of the characters since the rest of it is unbearable to sit through a second time. Dont get me wrong its a cool sweet space battle movie it just has no soul. Jyn Erso seems so disinterested in being in her own movie...her primary emotion is disinterest. They made a textbook mistake with their main character. During the first 1/3 of the movie they try to "tell" you why Jyn is interesting and how she has such a dodgy past as a rogue and a criminal.....but they dont show you any of that. A rebel commander literaly sits their telling the audience, "Jyn is an Anti-Hero, thats cool right?" Her speeches are some of the worst written and delivered dialogue in any Star Wars movie (setting aside the hot mess that was the other prequels, better dialogue than the prequels is not the standard we are shooting for). Cut out 75% of the dirty dozen and just have Jyn, Cassian, K2SO, and Baze try to get the plans. Then give all 3 characters and the robot a back story in the same movie, give Galen more screen time and cut Tarkin and Dad Joke Vader scenes. Then maybe I like more than the last 1/3rd of Rogue One. I had no interest in nearly every main character besides Krenic/Galen and that makes it a tough one to enjoy for anything other than the spectical.

6. Phantom Menace - Bad movie but fun to watch a handful of the plotless scenes towards the end.

7. The other two have maybe 2-3 scenes each I would willingly rewatch.

Thanks for writing out your thoughts. I agree with most but not all of it (I really like Rogue One ...) but in any case I found it very interesting to read your thoughts. So much so that I think I'm going to write my own. Spoiler: I have one very controversial preference.

IV. Immensely enjoyable movie. At this point, I've watched it so many times that it's hard to tell how much of that is nostalgia and how much is genuine quality (probably both). Things that really work for me: the whole 'taking up the mantle' thing for Luke - of warrior foremost and Jedi secondarily. The long, slow start to the movie. The movie is objectively fast-paced, but something about all that time spent on Tatooine feels really slow and it's delicious. Let me revel in the mood of the story -- then let my blood pump. And that's the last thing -- I don't know why, but that last sequence, the attack on the Death Star, really is some of the most absolutely tense and dramatic material in storytelling for me -- even after all these times. The kind that causes the eye to tear and the heart and stomach to leap with thrill at the mere thought of the attempt -- that so utterly desperate and determined attempt.

V. Profoundly excellent movie. We have no idea where this story is going. Mixes gravity and levity so very well, and what a plot twist. Put it in the National Film Archives, baby (it is).

VI. I agree with BoomOwl: 'Flawed movie, with incredible character arcs coming to a conclusion.' Actually -- I think the only real flaws are 1) that it stopped taking itself seriously and included the Ewoks, and 2) that Leia is in a golden bikini, because it objectifies women. For any other movie, the fact that half of it is largely unrelated to the main plot would be its death knell -- but in this movie, that half is so immensely enjoyable and so important to the characters that I think it really works.

I. Flawed, but still has the magic. Hah! I told you this would be controversial in one place. My enjoyment of this movie has really grown with time. Part of this is nostalgia -- this is the last Star Wars movie I was young enough for to see through the rose-tinted glasses of childhood. Look, Jar Jar is terrible. But this movie still possess the magic that is created by that long, slow buildup -- time to revel in a world that is different from before (the classic films) but still compelling and in the mood it generates: that golden kingdom, now doomed and in twilight -- in the weaving of the threads of legend from nothing, from unlikely, insignificant circumstances; in the strength and warmth and wisdom of the Mentor and the ascent of the Hero from youth and dust to feats of arms (with not one, but two characters). This movie still has the stuff of greatness, even if the scenario is confusingly framed and it again forgot itself and tried to be too funny. And it still has that ineffable charm that all Star Wars movies have, with their wild blaster bolts and banking fighters and quirky droids.

II. The worst of the Star Wars movies. We all know why: poor acting, a cringe-worthy romance that is the focus of the story, and a plot that doesn't grab us all that much -- although Obi-Wan's investigation verges on the kind of mystery that is compelling. We need to sympathize with our characters, but the story both fails to threaten them or things they care about sufficiently and makes us shift uncomfortably at some of their interactions. We're not on board emotionally.

III. Highly flawed, but the story-kernel is there. I recall reading the novelization for this movie and being impressed. The emotional content is back, both with the stupendous mood of a civilization and characters' lives in twilight and in terms of the stakes facing them: Anakin losing his wife, Obi-Wan losing his friend. The hero falling as the result of a fatal flaw (pride) is the essence of Greek tragedy. The struggle with temptation -- that is classic Star Wars. But the film version features poor writing (that balcony scene ...), poor acting, a comic-strip villain who does not feel threatening, and an excessive emphasis on stunning-looking combat sequences. Really -- this movie is one long fight montage. Remember the preference I stated for slow starts and big, dramatic payoffs? That scene with Anakin and Padme staring across the sunset sky toward each other in their towers, when Anakin weights what he values and makes his choice to follow Mace Windu to confront Palpatine -- that is emblematic of all this film could and should have been. And Obi-Wan's words near the end, ' You were the Chosen One! You were supposed to destroy the Sith, not join them. You were supposed to bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness. ... You were my brother, Anakin. I loved you.' Heartbreaking. Here is a man whose whole world and his most important relationship have been destroyed, and here is destiny: perverted. This is the heart of Star Wars, laid bare and bleeding. Better written and visioned, this could have been superlative, a worthy successor to the originals.

VII. A fun romp, but it's not Star Wars. It's been said that Star Wars was modelled after old serialized action romps like Buck Rogers (disclaimer: I've not seen Buck Rogers). I think this is the aspect of Star Wars this re-envisioning drew too heavily on, and not enough on epic in the technical sense of the word. It's lighthearted. This is its greatest strength and greatest weakness. It's lighthearted, and it's got that Star Wars charm of blaster bolts and constant incidental humour, so it's fun to watch. But because it doesn't take itself seriously enough, it does not begin to weave the threads of legend that the other series starts do. How so? We can see behind the curtain. We can see all the tropes -- most of them Star Wars tropes -- at a glance, and they wear thin. Maz is a very token, very random or unconnected, and very silly (the goggles, crawling on the table) Wizard/Mentor. Starkiller Base is very old and very predictable (therefore not very threatening) and does not make an attempt at verisimilitude. The 'young hero(es) must convince reluctant former hero to help' arc has also been used so often in film as to lose every iota of its charm. However, this film did have a very original villain motivation. It mishandled the villain with regard to menace, but succeeded in making him interesting (including that scene with his father -- a high point). I'm interested to see what comes of this.

I have other issues with the setting of Episode VII and the canon reboot, but they are separate from the quality of the film. I will say that the shift from the bittersweet but very hopeful ending of Episode VI to the broken lives of Episode VII was jarring and, to me, ultimately very disappointing. But that is a personal, viewer-response thing.

I do want to say, though, that the people who made this movie probably poured their hearts into it, and that's an admirable thing. And those who don't find the things I do to be flaws, that's genuinely cool. This franchise has grown big enough that I think it's safe to say people can have different tastes in Star Wars. I hope that the filmmakers will be proud of their work and that the fans will enjoy it to the hilt.

Rogue One. A worthy Star Wars spinoff. This movie doesn't have the grandeur of the saga films (nor should it), but I find it enjoyable to watch and it treats the franchise with the dignity it deserves, without sacrificing the classic incidental humour. Rogue One immerses itself in the lore and builds a story within it. It doesn't try to repeat the Star Wars formula, and is stronger for it. It does repeat some elements of Disney/Hollywood formula -- that 'touching' moment when characters who have differences come together, the pattern of Jyn's speech to the Rebels -- and is weaker for it. The inclusion of Tarkin and the cut footage from Episode IV make for a very satisfying homage to the original films, in contrast to Episode VII's heavy-handed repetition. Little in here feels over-the-top or comical; I feel like I am in a real universe again. This film may not be worthy of inclusion in the National Film Archives, nor is it a must-see for non-Star-Wars-fans, but I do find it to be a thoughtful and fun tribute to the classic Star Wars films.

Thanks for reading all this to any that did. I'm interested to read others' takes on the series as well.

TL;DR V - IV - VI - I - III - VII - II.