Or, maybe lightsabers are magic space wizard laser swords that defy our understanding of physics because... magic.

2 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

Or, maybe lightsabers are magic space wizard laser swords that defy our understanding of physics because... magic.

They do have magic psychic space crystals in them.

6 hours ago, Ironlord said:

We've seen the blade bounce off things with weak swings, in the OT.

Perhaps the force field itself generates some resistance, limiting the cutting power unless pressure is provided.

Or maybe it just takes more effort to slice through matter than we think. Denser matter may be more resistant.

7 hours ago, Ironlord said:

In Legends, we find that they can store days-worth of water needed to operate in the desert, in tiny capsules which weigh very little (Tatooine Ghost) despite the fact that water is normally incompressible.

Capsule Corperation? What's next, Poket Monsters SW edition? My level 100 Rathtar attacks you level 5 porg. It's super effective!

the only way anything weighs less is reducing mass or countering gravity, with the later bejng trivial in SW with repulsors. Maybe, maybe, tech can shunt mass into hyperspace somehow, but we've never seen this in any SW movie.

The quote in question:

None of the millions of scientific geniuses who lived in the galaxy had ever found a way to eliminate a human body's need for water. They could make suits that conserved every drop, they could build chem-reactors that synthesized it out of any breathable atmosphere, they had even discovered how to pressurize it to the point that a being could carry a week's supply on his belt in a mass-nulling clip.

But there was no pill or injection that negated the need for water . In a normal environment, a human being typically required two liters a day to stay efficient and alert. In a desert, a human needed ten to fifteen liters a day just resting in the shade, and double that if he was moving.

4 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Capsule Corperation? What's next, Poket Monsters SW edition? My level 100 Rathtar attacks you level 5 porg. It's super effective!

Rancor! I choose you!

For what it's worth, we've learned quite a bit about how lightsabers operate since Disney bought Star Wars and kick-started the new canon. First off, lightsabers are most definitely a plasma blade contained in some form of force field. The exact specifics of where this plasma comes from has never been revealed, but given what we know about kyber crystals from the Crisis on Utapau arc, when you pour even relatively small amounts of energy into a kyber crystal, it expels that energy back out in a massively destructive beam. This was seen when a giant kyber crystal was hit with blaster fire, and ended up firing a Death Star-like blast that tunneled through the hull of a ship. So presumably, channeling any energy into a lightsaber's crystal causes the beam of plasma we see as the blade to shoot forth, and then a force field of some sort contains it and gives it shape. This would mean the plasma is coming from the crystal specifically, not the air. We also know that kyber crystals have some strong connection to the Force, so for all we know, this energy being released has some connection to the Force, making it more similar to Force lightning than plasma as we know it.

We've also learned in Rebels that the lightsaber blades act as though they have mass, and that lightsaber blades are attracted to one another as though they were magnets (Which explains the many saberlocks we see throughout the franchise. That kind of binding would not happen in a real swordfight, but makes perfect sense when you consider that the blades 'stick' to one another). When Sabine first activated the Darksaber, she commented on the fact that the blade felt heavier than she imagined. Kanan then spouted some mythical mumbo-jumbo about how the blade channels the user's intentions or something along those lines. Basically the classic trope of "the weapon is an extension of the wielder." As Sabine practiced with it, the blade seemed to grow lighter, as she was more capable of channeling her intentions through the blade or something like that. None of this really makes sense from a scientific standpoint, which is kind of the point I'm getting at. Lightsabers function in a completely physics-defying way in canon. They also didn't behave in a physics-abiding manner in Legends either. But canon at least has made a point of telling us that lightsabers behave unusually due to their connection to the Force, an already physics-defying, galaxy-spanning field space magic. So can we please stop trying to quantify the physics of lightsabers? We know all we need to know about them. They're hot enough to cut through most things, they behave as if they have mass, they still need momentum to cut through things of dense enough material, and they make some of the most recognizable sounds of all time and come in many colors.

7 hours ago, Underachiever599 said:

... They're hot enough to cut through most things, they behave as if they have mass, they still need momentum to cut through things of dense enough material, and they make some of the most recognizable sounds of all time and come in many colors.

In addition, momentum in a very light thing can mean very little, considering the speeds and approximate weights involved (1-25 kg, say). It's more important to have strong contact if you want to cut something with a light weapon so you can push through, which you see both Anakin and Obi-Wan do in TCW series.

The very first discussion on lightsabers, which is still canon:

"Your father's lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or as random as a blaster. An elegant weapon... for a more civilized age." - Obi-Wan

ANH shows elegant swordplay (if a bit dry to watch). ESB shows Luke hacking futilely against Vader's flawless technique. Even the prequels show finesse, if you overlook the backflips. Obi-Wan in particular always shows amazing form while fighting. The Force Awakens has Rey win a crucial battle by hitting slightly harder with a weapon that simply isn't designed to win fights through power (and at an opponent who is blocking the strikes well, too). She won because plot. The way all lightsabers are used in TFA is the opposite of the way they should be used.

This is funny with Finn, because it makes sense. It's embarassing with Kylo, since he should know better given more than a day to practice that bashing at someone will not accomplish anything. But Rey winning a fight that way is downright inexcusable.

On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 6:34 AM, Ironlord said:

In Legends, we find that they can store days-worth of water needed to operate in the desert, in tiny capsules which weigh very little (Tatooine Ghost) despite the fact that water is normally incompressible.

They dehydrate the water so that it takes up less space, obviously.

16 hours ago, TopHatGorilla said:

Rancor! I choose you!

This gives me flashbacks of Creature Handlers in Star Wars Galaxies. That was pretty much Pokemon: Star Wars Edition.

23 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

They dehydrate the water so that it takes up less space, obviously.

No, no, no. You boil the water, so it turns into a gas, which is light, then you compress the gas into a small space.

Totes works.

12 hours ago, Astech said:

This is funny with Finn, because it makes sense. It's embarassing with Kylo, since he should know better given more than a day to practice that bashing at someone will not accomplish anything. But Rey winning a fight that way is downright inexcusable.

Hogwash.

A FORCE AWAKENED Rey was able to overpower a badly wounded and overconfident Kylo (shot by Chewie, cut by Finn). My favorite frame of that epic fight is when they are locked and she manages to push his sword down, while hers rises, then she disarms him then and cuts his face.

Before that, as mentioned above, Kylo had been shot and cut, not to mention the nice stab in the shoulder Rey sneaked in (using technique). Also Kylo's training is incomplete. He is no Jedi nor Sith. He's a force user.

6 hours ago, kris40k said:

No, no, no. You boil the water, so it turns into a gas, which is light, then you compress the gas into a small space.

Totes works.

No, see. you've got to separate the water into its lighter Oxygen and Hydrogen components and.... IT"S HEAVIER! HOW?!

5 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

A FORCE AWAKENED Rey was able to overpower a badly wounded and overconfident Kylo (shot by Chewie , cut by Finn ). My favorite frame of that epic fight is when they are locked and she manages to push his sword down, while hers rises, then she disarms him then and cuts his face.

Before that, as mentioned above, Kylo had been shot and cut, not to mention the nice stab in the shoulder Rey sneaked in (using technique). Also Kylo's training is incomplete. He is no Jedi nor Sith. He's a force user.

How he was cut by Finn , I'll never know. Wounded or not, Finn accomplished nothing but comic relief and inexplicable knowledge of a secret superweapon throughout the film. Again, you're talking about Rey winning through brute force .

Before the (admittedly nicely done) shoulder stab, there were at lest three opportunities I counted when Rey was over swinging for a quick dart in and out from Kylo and the battle would be over. Kylo made similar mistakes. Of course, Kylo has used the lightsaber before so he shouldn't be making wide, sweeping, easily blockable cuts (which would be harder to do with a wound then quick jabs at openings). His loss is inexcusable. Maybe if Chewie had blown off his leg or something, but if he's still able to stand and fight, Rey has no real chance, save plot armour.

3 minutes ago, Astech said:

No, see. you've got to separate the water into its lighter Oxygen and Hydrogen components and.... IT"S HEAVIER! HOW?!

How he was cut by Finn , I'll never know. Wounded or not, Finn accomplished nothing but comic relief and inexplicable knowledge of a secret superweapon throughout the film. Again, you're talking about Rey winning through brute force .

Before the (admittedly nicely done) shoulder stab, there were at lest three opportunities I counted when Rey was over swinging for a quick dart in and out from Kylo and the battle would be over. Kylo made similar mistakes. Of course, Kylo has used the lightsaber before so he shouldn't be making wide, sweeping, easily blockable cuts (which would be harder to do with a wound then quick jabs at openings). His loss is inexcusable. Maybe if Chewie had blown off his leg or something, but if he's still able to stand and fight, Rey has no real chance, save plot armour.

He was fascinated with her and didn't want to kill her. It's not plot armor, it's plot.

5 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

He was fascinated with her and didn't want to kill her. It's not plot armor, it's plot.

Uh... Even to the point where he would accept his own death instead? Those openings in Rey's clumsy swings could be used just as easily to dis"arm" her than kill her. Then he can study her all he wants.

6 hours ago, Astech said:

No, see. you've got to separate the water into its lighter Oxygen and Hydrogen components and.... IT"S HEAVIER! HOW?!

How he was cut by Finn , I'll never know. Wounded or not, Finn accomplished nothing but comic relief and inexplicable knowledge of a secret superweapon throughout the film. Again, you're talking about Rey winning through brute force .

Before the (admittedly nicely done) shoulder stab, there were at lest three opportunities I counted when Rey was over swinging for a quick dart in and out from Kylo and the battle would be over. Kylo made similar mistakes. Of course, Kylo has used the lightsaber before so he shouldn't be making wide, sweeping, easily blockable cuts (which would be harder to do with a wound then quick jabs at openings). His loss is inexcusable. Maybe if Chewie had blown off his leg or something, but if he's still able to stand and fight, Rey has no real chance, save plot armour.

Have you... Never watched a lightsaber duel before? Because that describes almost every single one of them. The choreography in Star Wars has always, always had issues. The spin from Kenobi in ANH, Luke's spin and Vader's major overswinging in ESB, Luke's wild flailing in RotJ, the constant spinning and major overswinging in all of the Prequels, ect. I could point out countless times in all of the Star Wars duels where the duelists fought poorly by real life standards (Coming from a fencing, kendo and HEMA background). The choreography isn't meant to be realistic. It's meant to be fun to watch. Which, admittedly, TFA's duel was rather dull by those standards.

The best duel by realistic standards (and close to one of the best anyhow) is the Rebels episode where Obiwan duels Maul.

I'll agree to disagree about the TFA duel. I thought it was very entertaining.

18 hours ago, Underachiever599 said:

Have you... Never watched a lightsaber duel before? Because that describes almost every single one of them. The choreography in Star Wars has always, always had issues. The spin from Kenobi in ANH, Luke 's spin and Vader 's major overswinging in ESB, Luke 's wild flailing in RotJ, the constant spinning and major overswinging in all of the Prequels, ect. I could point out countless times in all of the Star Wars duels where the duelists fought poorly by real life standards (Coming from a fencing, kendo and HEMA background). The choreography isn't meant to be realistic. It's meant to be fun to watch. Which, admittedly, TFA's duel was rather dull by those standards.

Weird how the more experienced swordsman always wins though right? The only exceptions are Obi-Wan in TPM surprising an arrogant opponent, Luke in RotJ using force magic and... Rey. Rey who had had no training whatsoever beating someone purely through hitting harder. It makes at least some sense for Luka and Obi-Wan to win a duel against a more experienced opponent, but for Rey it's hands-down stupid.

14 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

The best duel by realistic standards (and close to one of the best anyhow) is the Rebels episode where Obiwan duels Maul.

I can certainly agree with that. Did you notice Maul tried the same thing that he did to kill Qui-Gon, and Obi-Wan anticipated it for the kill? Just amazing.

1 hour ago, Astech said:

Weird how the more experienced swordsman always wins though right? The only exceptions are Obi-Wan in TPM surprising an arrogant opponent, Luke in RotJ using force magic and... Rey. Rey who had had no training whatsoever beating someone purely through hitting harder. It makes at least some sense for Luka and Obi-Wan to win a duel against a more experienced opponent, but for Rey it's hands-down stupid.

I can certainly agree with that. Did you notice Maul tried the same thing that he did to kill Qui-Gon, and Obi-Wan anticipated it for the kill? Just amazing.

You forgot Anakin beating Dooku, when Dooku was way more experienced. Sidious beating Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin, despite Sidious not being able to practice with his lightsaber much for years. And if you look at The Clone Wars and Rebels, there are even more examples that I won't bother getting into. Experience and natural talent both play separate roles in combat, along with environmental factors and tons of other details. Context is extremely important. When Kylo lost to Rey, there was a ton of context going into that duel. Namely, Kylo being shot by a bowcaster that we'd seen ragdolling people in other parts of the movie, Kylo's strength in the Force wavering after having killed his own father, which in turn lead to an injury from Finn, an opponent he should have had no trouble with, and of course, Rey giving herself over to the Force toward the end of that duel. There's plenty of reason for Rey to have won that duel, and even with all that in mind, she was still being driven back until nearly the very end of the battle.

I will also support Maul's defeat at Kenobi's hand being the most realistic lightsaber duel. It's probably my favorite duel of all time at this point. The call back to The Phantom Menace with Maul's last move and Kenobi's stance, the stare down right before the actual combat started, the tension of the scene. Everything about it was perfect.

1 minute ago, Underachiever599 said:

You forgot Anakin beating Dooku, when Dooku was way more experienced. Sidious beating Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin, despite Sidious not being able to practice with his lightsaber much for years. And if you look at The Clone Wars and Rebels, there are even more examples that I won't bother getting into. Experience and natural talent both play separate roles in combat, along with environmental factors and tons of other details. Context is extremely important. When Kylo lost to Rey , there was a ton of context going into that duel. Namely, Kylo being shot by a bowcaster that we'd seen ragdolling people in other parts of the movie, Kylo's strength in the Force wavering after having killed his own father, which in turn lead to an injury from Finn , an opponent he should have had no trouble with, and of course, Rey giving herself over to the Force toward the end of that duel. There's plenty of reason for Rey to have won that duel, and even with all that in mind, she was still being driven back until nearly the very end of the battle.

I will also support Maul's defeat at Kenobi's hand being the most realistic lightsaber duel. It's probably my favorite duel of all time at this point. The call back to The Phantom Menace with Maul's last move and Kenobi's stance, the stare down right before the actual combat started, the tension of the scene. Everything about it was perfect.

Anakin had fought on the front lines of every major conflict in the Clone Wars. I'm confident in saying he has more combat experience than Dooku, if not formal training. Plus, he's the Chosen One, so he doesn't really count.

Sidious is (probably) the most powerful sith since Darth Bane. It's now canon that there is a sith training ground on Coruscant, easily accessible from 500 Republice (where he lives) and the senate building. He was also beaten by mace Windu, who was more experienced and had better technique.

In the clone wars, nothing springs to mind except Gungans beating Grievous (which even makes sense given the scenario). Maybe some of Ahsoka's battles, but she's second only to Anakin in force potential, ad has enormous experience besides.

With Kylo, sure, he had a massive wound. But it wasn't debilitating enough to stop him from catching up to running people, so his agility isn't hurt by it. When he had Rey bent backwards over a cliff, he only needed to give a little shove and she'd be dead. Instead he stood there for a minute waiting for her monologue of force-discovery to end.

1 hour ago, Astech said:

Plus, he's the Chosen One, so he doesn't really count.

And Rey is chopped liver?

1 hour ago, Astech said:

When he had Rey bent backwards over a cliff, he only needed to give a little shove and she'd be dead. Instead he stood there for a minute waiting for her monologue of force-discovery to end.

You're missing the point entirely. Kylo did not want to kill Rey, which is why she lived and defeated him.

21 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

And Rey is chopped liver?

The entire focus of a six movie arc was on the chosen one restoring balance to the force. That's either Luke or Anakin (and possibly both). The clone wars states that only the chosen one has the power to control the son and daughter. At every opportunity, Anakin is portrayed as a prodigy (except at flirting. Sheesh), and Luke isn't far behind. Rey is... some girl we've only just heard about who doesn't have many likable qualities and generally blunders through life?

21 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

You're missing the point entirely. Kylo did not want to kill Rey , which is why she lived and defeated him.

Which is nonsensical. He wanted Rey so bad he let her get away? Again, there were numerous times where he could have amputated her limbs instead of killing her, so the arguement doesn't work.

8 hours ago, Astech said:

The entire focus of a six movie arc was on the chosen one restoring balance to the force. That's either Luke or Anakin (and possibly both). The clone wars states that only the chosen one has the power to control the son and daughter. At every opportunity, Anakin is portrayed as a prodigy (except at flirting. Sheesh), and Luke isn't far behind. Rey is... some girl we've only just heard about who doesn't have many likable qualities and generally blunders through life?

Which is nonsensical. He wanted Rey so bad he let her get away? Again, there were numerous times where he could have amputated her limbs instead of killing her, so the arguement doesn't work.

Maybe he did not want to amputate her arms?

1 minute ago, BlodVargarna said:

Maybe he did not want to amputate her arms?

That's just clutching at straws. There's no good reason for Kylo not to incapacitate and/or kill Rey when he has the chance.