Hey guys,

Haven't found an answer to this in the CRRG to my knowledge, or on the forums, so figure I'd ask it here.

In this quest, hero figures can be immobilized by entering a water space and failing a Might or Awareness test. The quest rules do not specify 'non-empty' space, therefore it is possible to become immobilized while on a space occupied by another hero. In this case, what happens to the hero that becomes immobilized?

I want to rule that they must place themselves in an adjacent space of their choice. However, it also directly benefits the heroes to do this (essentially negating the Immobilize effect for my purposes)

I can't find a rule to cover this.. so I turn to the community. Has this been covered before?

As far as I know there is no specific uFAQ covering situations like this.

However, I think that the effect represents an interrupt. For large monsters it has been clarified that movement cannot be interrupted if the monster cannot be placed. The situation you describe is very similar. I see two options here:

1. The hero cannot enter the water space at all.
2. The interrupt does do trigger.

I don't think it makes sense that the hero can't enter the water space at all, since the test for Immobilization happens after the Hero enters the water space.

It sounds like you're suggesting the alternative is that the Immobilzation does not occur at all? That does allow heroes to use their fellows as 'stepping stones' to cross the water without testing...

Perhaps this is as intended?

Looks like it is as I feared though.. there is no established ruling for this. Guess its time to e-mail FFG!

My answer is based on the available uFAQs on related situations only.

I agree that mechanistically option 1 does not make much sense. However, in case of Nimble interrupting large monster movement we are in the same boat. If a game effect would cause a situation that is impossible in respect to the rules of the game, FFG judged that the effect cannot be used, although the impossible situation would occur only after the effect is resolved. Therefore, in my opinion it is well possible that FFG might rule that a hero cannot move into a water space occupied by another hero at all.

I agree that option 2 would offer loop-holes for the heroes that are most likely not intended. The same is true for the solution you discussed with your OL.

I agree with Sadgit- of the possible ways this could be ruled, I think:

a-get stuck in nearest empty space is least likely

b-cannot enter that space is SLIGHTLY more likely than

c-effect only applies to empty spaces.

Solution "b" is how crumbling terrain is designed. (often crumbling terrain is over a pit which will end your move).

I'll check my records, but I think I gave all of my rule questions to Sadgit for the CRRG already.

15 minutes ago, Zaltyre said:

I'll check my records, but I think I gave all of my rule questions to Sadgit for the CRRG already.

Indeed you did. And what treasure trove it was

I checked BGG and the FAQ (double-checked) and found zilch. After giving the question more thought, if I were ruling this (unless the missing "empty" is a typo) "b" is my answer of choice.

It follows the relatively consistent (unwritten) rule of "If X may directly lead to Y and Y is illegal, then X is illegal".

Hey Zaltyre - So just to confirm: What you think happens is that the hero enters the occupied space, tests and fails, becomes Immobilized, and then moves back to their original space?

Huh. Descent never ceases to surprise me. That was the outcome I thought was the least likely - I've never seen a move cancelled like that before.

That is the most brutal outcome for the Heroes, but fair enough, I will play that way from now on.

37 minutes ago, Charmy said:

Hey Zaltyre - So just to confirm: What you think happens is that the hero enters the occupied space, tests and fails, becomes Immobilized , and then moves back to their original space?

Actually, I think it's worse than that. I think the hero can't even try to test in an occupied space. Let's try approaching it from the fundamentals of movement (please pardon me if I sound pedantic):

1. Figures block movement and therefore cause the space to be "blocked" as opposed to "empty". Therefore, two figures cannot occupy the same space.

2. A exception to #1 exists such that figures can enter spaces containing friendly figures, but if and only if they will immediately move out of the blocked space such that they end their movement in an empty space.

Because heroes entering water spaces may become immobilized (and in any case must interrupt their movement to test) they cannot immediately move out of the blocked space. Therefore, I'd make an analogy to the situation where a hero has 1 (or in the case of water, 2) MP remaining. He cannot move into a friendly figure's space, because that will lead to him ending his movement in an occupied space.

If that doesn't convince you, consider a hypothetical quest rule: "Each time a hero enters a unique space, he may test willpower. If he passes, he gains 1 MP."

Our hero has one MP and is standing adjacent to a unique space currently occupied by another hero- could he move into the unique space? (I would say, "no".)

Hmm. I would protest that the situation you outlined feels different because in your example you have to pass a test to gain the ability to leave the square, while in my situation you have to fail a test to lose the ability to leave the square.

Nonetheless, it "feeling different" is not an argument :3

To help me remember, I'll generalize this as, "if a figure's movement could result in that figure being unable to leave an occupied square due to an active game effect then that movement cannot be performed."

I believe it was covered in a previous ruling the related case wherein if a player can Immobilize a figure with an interrupt effect, they can't use it while a figure is in an occupied square.

Thanks fellas. Another ruling under my cap.

You're welcome (and thanks to Sadgit, too).

I think your generalization works because an "unknown chance" (like a web trap) is prohibited for exactly the same reason.