Two players in my group want to layer armor on their characters. I can't seem to find any rules about this and since in the preivous two additions of WFRP you could layer your armor I begrudgingly agreed. Now if you don't know the older additions had hit locations and easy encumbrance penalties for people who wanted to layer. Plus the common sense idea that you don't have two layers of plate mail. What you have is one layer of padded/leather and one layer of plate/chain on top of it.

This new system leads me to believe that it should be one "SUIT" of armor and no layering.

What does everyone think?

I am considering throwing a misfortune die on my two players to facilitate the bulk from the extra suit of armor.

how can they afford the encumberance of 2 suits of armour, most of my party are borderline encumbered in normal gear?

ishibei said:

Dagger (2)

Hand Weapon (3)

Mail Shirt (4)

Leather Armor (3)

Buckler (2)

Equals 14 encumbrance

Strength 3 is 15 Human

The Dwarf is Str (4) so he has a 25 Encumbrance

All other goods are non essentials and are not carried into combat.

EASY Have that much!

The way I'm going to run it is that you can't layer armor. Partly because armor is really good as it is and layering would make it too good and partly because I'm going to assume that most armors already include various layers of material making it impossible to layer it any more - so for instance platemail isn't just plate over clothes, but plate with chain and padding, a chainmail would include either padding or leather armor to go underneath, etc. etc.

My players asked the same thing. My answer was... No. I assume that if a chest plate is worn, then the appropriate stuff is worn underneath as part of the armor, be it leather or chain mail.

Do any of the monster entries in the ToA seem to be layering armor (legit question: I haven't really read that far yet lol)? My gut instinct on this is a definite NO to layering armor. Besides being kind of munchkiny and gamist, it doesn't really make sense.

MSpookshow said:

Its defintely Munchkiny.... It actually makes me pretty mad cause one the guys is a SURGEON/BARBER!! I mean really, WTF would one of these guys have all this armor for?

The ToA doesn't really list the exact equipment for a creature, just a general guideline or idea. Hence it would be far-fetched to used the gist of how the creature is equipped to determine if they layered armour.

That being said, nowhere in the rulebook does it say armour stacks with itself. It only says shields and armour stack. Plus if you look at the values, it becomes clear armour wasn't meant to stack otherwise you reach some truly ridiculous figures. This also meshes well with past editions where armour usually wouldn't layer (and when it did the exceptions were clearly noted).

The only armor that padding was really worn with was plate, as far as I know. Chain would just be worn with a tunic or basic leather clothes underneath, right?

the rules explicitly say that armor and defence bonuses stack for your armor and shield, it never says anything about stacking multi armors, i would say no.

one way to look at this is with cloth armor. it has a soak value of 1 and an encumbrance of 1. so 2 layers of cloth armor > leather armor (2 soak for 3 encumb) unless you really add some penalty for layers, there is no reason to buy anything but cloth and robes and layer them. if you want to say you cant layer multi of the same type, well cloth + mail shirt is 3 soak 1 def, better than chainmail, lighter than chainmail and cheaper than chainmail.

looking at the way the armor is set up for this game, i really dont think they ever had stacking armor in mind.

42! said:

I'm with the no layering crowd. Someone, maybe the OP, mentioned layering in previous editions...which I never played. Maybe that's why it never even crossed my mind that layering would even be a possibility. I assume that each armor is designed to be as effective as possible within its physical limitations. Any design or layering strategies that would result in better protection is represented by the next armor type up the list. That's just the way I've imagined it.

evilben said:

Perfect Answer Thanks!!

donbaloo said:

But in previous editions it clearly stated when layering was possible and explicitly said layering was not possible in other cases. Take for example 1st edition where the RAW say: "These are the only cases in which pieces of armour can be worn over one another."

So I'm with the majority of posters, if FFG wanted armour to stack to they would have mentioned it somewhere in the rules.

I'm linked to a middle-age company who wear armors and all I can say is those armors are ALREADY LAYERED with clothes. You may considers those armors tables are already including layering. High armor protection doesn't come from some kind of magical raw product, but from layering differents elements.

I.E. Chainmail is always layered with heavy clothes for two reasons.

• First, Chainmail hurts and irritates you if it slips on your skin or on a soft shirt. Expect fatigue/wounds.
• Second, wearing only a Chainmal protect against piercing damage but it doesn't against a violent hit. Moreover, it would wounds you more because chainmail would crush into your skin and bones.

I.E. Full plate is always layred with heavy clothes AND chainmail.

• As above, chainmail protects you against pierce damage between the different pieces of the plate armor. plate + chainmail = better damage reduction.
• Heavy clothes protects you against chainmail irritation, chainmail crushing when hit, and it help you to carry over the whole plate armor's weight (and that is something). Expect a lot of fatigue without it.

PS : When you fight wearing those, there's a very very hard thing to manage : temperature . It is REALLY hot inside even without moving . It is VERY hard to wear it under a summers sun (fatigue ?). I think Crusaders in Jerusalem were totally insane to wear chainmail or plate armors....In all my rpgs here's what I do : after a number of rounds equal to the armored character's Toughness, he make a Resilience check to stand it. Fail = 1 misfortune dice to physical actions (not fatigue because of risks to get strained, that's not fun in RPG)... It gets harder and harder with time.

One more against the Layering Armor!. Full plate wasn't only a piece of hard metal, it was an engineering feat reinforced with chain and leather that allowed its user a great mobility (running and even swimning) with a low weight (20-25 kg.). It was a compromise between the needs of war and the protection, overlay it with more armor (if possible) drastically reduce it effectiveness in combat.

GravitysAngel said:

I am really happy to break this to you but the first thing every warrior, knight and militia man would need to acquire was a set of padding . Then you would stack chain and or plate over it. The major reasons for this are;

1. Chain and plate is cold/warm and padding keep you insulated

2. Chain and plate is heavy so padding help you distribute the load over you body to make it more comfortable

3. Chain (in particular) is good to stop swords and axes from cutting your flesh but are terrible at distributing the impact energy making your bones break and ligaments tear, hence putting a thick layered clothing underneath will soften the blow and distribute the impact energy.

4. Chain (in particular), especially if it only is made of "butted" rings, has a tendency to tear when it is hit hard, Wearing a padding will prevent the chain mail rings from digging further in to your wound.

5. Both plate and chain (again chain in particular) is useful for prevent cutting damage, but they are less good at dealing with piercing damage. The thick padding is good at preventing pierinsing damage as arrows, bolts and spears then to be "wrapped" up in the cloth and quickly loose their impact energy.

Long live proper padding!!

Erik

Vaeolyn Elmleaf said:

But when a player wears chain in my game I assume that padding and everything is part of that armor type. Besides the mechanics clearly do not support armor stacking.