Ran into a weird one. So, I've got a big unit of Reanimates with Lingering Dead. A bunch of them are killed; let's say 25 of them for this example. This leaves an entire row (and then some) of empty trays. Because of Lingering Dead, these trays are not removed.

Next, Ankaur Maro comes along and wants to add 2 trays to the back. The back, of course, is behind a bunch of empty trays. But if that happens, when the trays are removed, the unit will be broken apart.

We ended up ruling that two empty trays are added to the back, and two trays worth of reanimate figures are added similarly to the rules for regeneration. I think this most closely resembles the way similar situations (like figure upgrades being destroyed) are handled, and therefore is closest to the spirit of the game. There's no rule telling you to do this at all, though. Should probably be in the next FAQ...

That's probably how I would have played it.

Sounds like a fair result to me. Ankaur Maro's rules definitely need more clarification.

As we have rules for replacing figure empty slots with units, what you do is analogous to that and also how I would play it.

I'm more curious as to the why wound Maro to do that for a partial ReRoll.

13 hours ago, Darthain said:

I' m more curious as to the why wound Maro to do that for a partial ReRoll.

It was unit upgrade Maro in a 6-tray Reanimates unit, so it was sorta free.

yeah that needs some clarification.
RAW, nothing says they move up so theyre lost. RAI, thats kinda silly. I suspect they'd be ruled to move up.

First, I would think that it's the same as when a figure upgrade is killed off, you don't just leave a hole in that spot,k you fill it in from the units in the back. I have always assumed when you fill in trays, either from Maro's "restock" ability or reanimation that they just go to the next available slot, if there are dead units.

But second, I had a question. If Maro can't add a tray, but could add figures, is he allowed to? With lingering dead, I had a situation where the new tray would have been overlapping another friendly unit, but there were 2-3 empty trays that those (either 4 or 8) figures could have been placed in. If there was room, the new figures would have still been slotted into the existing empty slots, and the trays would have just been in the back hanging out empty, should Maro simply not add the trays but add the units? Now, rules as written state you can't add the tray, but it doesn't say you can't add the correct number of figures.

So that everyone who is lighting their torches and dragging out their pitchforks can calm down, yes we ruled that I couldn't add the trays, he somehow sees a wide open field of space to reanimate his troops but somehow says "na, there used to be guys there so no can do folks" and his ability went "wa, wa, waaaaa!" (just kidding, I didn't waste it I used it on my archers). I'm ok with that ruling for now, but, is that truly correct? Since there's confusion on if the figures themselves filter in to fill in the gaps, is adding a tray and adding a full tray worth of figures the same thing? Should Maro be allowed to add figures without adding trays? If the figures would filter up to fill in the gaps I don't see why not? Especially if something like lingering dead is keeping the trays there to stand in the way of his ability.

Alright, go ahead and light to torches now.

A interesting interaction, but I can't helpnfeel it may be intentionally 'trays' so you can't 'heal' your lingering dead units at max tray?

We'll never know.

I'd say no since he adds full trays. His ability itself says nothing about adding models specifically, just "full tray"

Lingering Dead trays were not added, so they dont get models from the Adding Trays rule.

Yeah, I would agree. Even flavor-wise, I don't have a problem. The flavor of Lingering Dead (in my eyes) is that the empty trays represent skeletons who are about to die, but haven't yet. They "linger" for an extra moment, so they can still get one last swing in. Looking at it this way, it isn't Ankaur looking at an empty field where they used to be, but looking at still-just-barely-standing skeletons and saying, "Yup, no room for new ones there." Then at the end of the turn they finish dying and he can replace them.

3 hours ago, Zetan said:

Yeah, I would agree. Even flavor-wise, I don't have a problem. The flavor of Lingering Dead (in my eyes) is that the empty trays represent skeletons who are about to die, but haven't yet. They "linger" for an extra moment, so they can still get one last swing in. Looking at it this way, it isn't Ankaur looking at an empty field where they used to be, but looking at still-just-barely-standing skeletons and saying, "Yup, no room for new ones there." Then at the end of the turn they finish dying and he can replace them.

That was beautiful.

On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 1:54 PM, Vineheart01 said:

I'd say no since he adds full trays. His ability itself says nothing about adding models specifically, just "full tray"

Lingering Dead trays were not added, so they dont get models from the Adding Trays rule.

Just to be the devil's advocate and voice the thought on the other side. One could also say that he says you add full trays, but the trays themselves hold no value without the units on it, so a full tray is four units. That is represented by it saying full trays.

Now mind you, when I played this situation we did NOT add units, because we too looked at it as being full tray worth of units (now we did play if I could add to the back we added units worth up front and then added two empty trays), but it's a thought.

1 hour ago, Curlycross said:

but the trays themselves hold no value

I think Lingering Dead itself proves this is not true, as the empty trays provide a lot of value.

We could more easily consider that his ability adds N trays and regenerates N trays' worth of infantry as per regeneration rules. In that case, the trays are added to the back but the figures fill the first empty rank

This will lead to some strange cases whereby one of the added trays would be removed immediately if 4 figures have been sniped in the front rank, but it still sounds logical to me. I don't have the rule text with me though so can't check whether they can be read that way

At the end of the turn the trays with no units are removed and the trays behind slide forwards in the formation. The same is true if a siege unit gets pulled by accuracy. Until there are no back trays your threat does not get dropped.