TLDR: How are stores going to manage terrain for tournaments?

I anticipate that FFG will have an organized play structure for Legion - essentially tournaments. An 8 person tournament requires 4 tables of terrain, 8 tables for 16 players etc... This is a substantial amount of terrain and tables and a substantial burden in terms of cost and storage for stores that don't already support miniature games. Even for those that do support miniature games in the 28mm/32mm scale the terrain they own is probably themed for 40k, Wm/H, or Infinity. I personally don't want to play Legion on 40k terrain. I mean it works but doesn't fit the theme.

My question is how do stores that are new to minis or who already have a commitment to tables/terrain that fit other themes find room in their storage/budget for 4+ tables of Star Wars themed terrain?

I see many people in the community building these beautiful and thematic tables but I don't think those tables are going to translate well to the tournament scene.

I hope we'll see FFG support stores with a line of 'mouse-pad' style Legion mats and some affordable (and easily stored) terrain kits themed for the game. I'm relatively new to FFG, what do you veterans think FFG will do to help ease this burden...?

Thanks for your time.

J--

I'm assuming the only terrain that will be required for tournament play will be the 8 barricades that come in the core box.

If we use Runewars Miniature Games as Guide ( https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/ff/d2/ffd221c7-808e-4926-b09c-2268cfc4882c/rwm_tournament_regulations_v10.pdf) as well as X-Wing. There will be an official mat that must be used. In the case of terrain, there will be official terrain that must be used like in X-Wing Asteroids (specific asteroids are named in the rules) or in the case of Runewars (they have some official punch outs as well), they have a table (page 6 of the linked PDF) that specifies the dimensions of the terrain that may be used. The organizer is responsible for both.

If you are playing casual you can do as you like.

I'm sure at Premiere level events such as continental and world championships, that you may see some terrain features similar to what you saw on some of the demo tables at GenCon. For those type of events, while you may have buildings and the like, I doubt that you are going to see much in the way of multiple level tables. It's just too much space to take up for a large event and too much time taken up to take them down for another event.

For local stores, it's going to depend on the store. I predict a lot of forests, trenches, one or two level hills, and areas of rubble. Mainly because many stores have terrain like this already on hand and they are pretty generic across game systems. Maybe some places will have a building or two to put out.

Beyond the barriers in the core set, if the players are required to bring terrain to an event similar to Armada, X-Wing, or RuneWars, I expect them to be cardboard punchouts.

I'm also sure that FFG is already planning on several "official" mousepad material rollouts for Legion. I just hope they do them in a single 6'x3'rollout.

FFG has been pretty coy about future expansions, including terrain.

If you consider that in a tournament or competition setting that certain terrain elements need to be available to all players equally for fairness' sake. I would say it's fair to conclude that the base game will have cardboard punch outs (as in Runewars) that represent certain obstacles or terrain elements and secondly that some expansions will be those same terrain pieces only in a 3D form.

Going off this interview with lead designer of Legion, Alex Davy, the intent is to have a relatively easy set up so you can start playing right away. To me that says that game stores don't have to have shelves & shelves of terrain; that I could walk into a store with my official terrain pieces (flat or otherwise) and get to play straight away as long as I have available table space and an opponent. And the game of course.

At least that's my expectation.

Custom terrain & paint jobs are much cooler and par for the course for many wargames, but I think FFG knows what they need to put in the box to help give this game the best chance of success.

48 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

FFG has been pretty coy about future expansions, including terrain.

If you consider that in a tournament or competition setting that certain terrain elements need to be available to all players equally for fairness' sake. I would say it's fair to conclude that the base game will have cardboard punch outs (as in Runewars) that represent certain obstacles or terrain elements and secondly that some expansions will be those same terrain pieces only in a 3D form.

Going off this interview with lead designer of Legion, Alex Davy, the intent is to have a relatively easy set up so you can start playing right away. To me that says that game stores don't have to have shelves & shelves of terrain; that I could walk into a store with my official terrain pieces (flat or otherwise) and get to play straight away as long as I have available table space and an opponent. And the game of course.

At least that's my expectation.

Custom terrain & paint jobs are much cooler and par for the course for many wargames, but I think FFG knows what they need to put in the box to help give this game the best chance of success.

I think it would be interesting if they released a new price of 3d terrain that is required for that tournament season. I think it would be fun to see how everyone builds around that piece for that season.

Since the game apparently uses true line of sight I'd actually be surprised if they used 2D representations of terrain. If anything they'd have to put out 3D terrain. I imagine that terrain will be left up to local TOs though - pretty much like most other minis wargames.

My honest prediction is what I'll call Objective terrain. Theres a ton of win conditions based on touching a specified piece of terrain. If someone makes a forest patch with a base circumference of 12 inches, and the next player has a moisture Vaparator with a 1 inch base, we start to have tiny play issues. I'd almost bet we'll see more tiny objective terrain sold that are in vein of the barricades in the core box. Barrels, crates, computer terminals, small generators. Star Wars thingies. But generic enough to fit into anyones specific terrain.

If you look at the scenario/objective cards, they mention objective tokens, so those would be probably 1 inch cardboard chips that are placed on the battlefield. The game will be playable without building a diorama style table, just not as immersive. I would assume for the sake of ease, tournament level games will be flat terrain with the barricades, at minimum cardboard trees set up, and maybe a couple buildable structures. Figure everything would be constructed of the same cardboard used for tokens that just interlocks. Cheap, easy, and effective for everyone to have something, but allow others to build more detailed terrain.

I would love some dedicated terrain but I am truly set on making an interior build. I am working on a Death Star/Imperial Space Station build. I want a Hangar Bay, Catwalks like a shield generator shut down area, Maintenance areas and a Detention Block.

It may not make for a good game of Legion and might be more suited for Imperial Assault but you can't blame a guy for trying.

2 hours ago, C3POFETT said:

I would love some dedicated terrain but I am truly set on making an interior build. I am working on a Death Star/Imperial Space Station build. I want a Hangar Bay, Catwalks like a shield generator shut down area, Maintenance areas and a Detention Block.

It may not make for a good game of Legion and might be more suited for Imperial Assault but you can't blame a guy for trying.

Go with an open floor plan an modular design. Walls, rooms, sections, and plenty of scatter.

Check out HirstArts for some molds that should help you. Kinda pricey, but I just got a stack of them, and can vouch for their quality...and minty freshness...not kidding, they have a minty oder.

Seriously though, I'd think about ditching the detention block and other overly tight spaces and instead focus on design choices that provide room for 4 or more soldier models to stand line abreast. For a capital ship in Star Wars, that totally doable. Add in some open cargo spaces, vehicle garages, hangers, and plenty of crates, barrels, and model/toy vehicles, and you should have a serviceable board.

16 minutes ago, Ghostofman said:

Go with an open floor plan an modular design. Walls, rooms, sections, and plenty of scatter.

Check out HirstArts for some molds that should help you. Kinda pricey, but I just got a stack of them, and can vouch for their quality...and minty freshness...not kidding, they have a minty oder.

Seriously though, I'd think about ditching the detention block and other overly tight spaces and instead focus on design choices that provide room for 4 or more soldier models to stand line abreast. For a capital ship in Star Wars, that totally doable. Add in some open cargo spaces, vehicle garages, hangers, and plenty of crates, barrels, and model/toy vehicles, and you should have a serviceable board.

Yes I was also thinking some areas might be to tight but I was planning on larger rooms. The actual plans for my detention block was based more on EAs Star Wars BattleFront. It is more of an open room and the actual cell hallways would just be printed decals. You can see the hallways but you cant actually use them. A blast door on either side a couple of elevators for decor and to block Line of Sight. My original intent was to make modular walls so it could be easily broken down and rearranged as desired.

Star Wars Battlefront really was my inspiration for this build. Most all of the areas including hallways are large enough for skirmishes to take place. The hangar bay is massive enough for a tabketop battle all in itself.

Thanks for the feedback and the ideas.

43 minutes ago, C3POFETT said:

Yes I was also thinking some areas might be to tight but I was planning on larger rooms. The actual plans for my detention block was based more on EAs Star Wars BattleFront. It is more of an open room and the actual cell hallways would just be printed decals. You can see the hallways but you cant actually use them. A blast door on either side a couple of elevators for decor and to block Line of Sight. My original intent was to make modular walls so it could be easily broken down and rearranged as desired.

Star Wars Battlefront really was my inspiration for this build. Most all of the areas including hallways are large enough for skirmishes to take place. The hangar bay is massive enough for a tabketop battle all in itself.

Thanks for the feedback and the ideas.

Sounds like you're in ok shape.

Again though: HirstArts. A hundred bucks now, but days of effort saved.

Worst thing FFG could do is limit the creativity of players and insist on punch out cards for terrain. You could already play IA if you're into that.

Tournament play is only one aspect of the hobby so I don't worry about that atm. I can imagine some official terrain being released at one point in the future and I wouldn't be surprised if that terrain became the standard for the upper level tournaments. Apart from that, most stores have generic hills or woods in their inventory. This will do. A hill is a hill is a hill.

FFG players are known to be very exact when it comes to measuring. Performing a successful maneuvre in X-Wing might be a question of millimetres. Judging from all we have seen so far, this game will be different. Enjoy this freedom and don't start worrying if your terrain will be tournament legal or not.

On 9/21/2017 at 1:26 PM, C3POFETT said:

I would love some dedicated terrain but I am truly set on making an interior build. I am working on a Death Star/Imperial Space Station build. I want a Hangar Bay, Catwalks like a shield generator shut down area, Maintenance areas and a Detention Block.

It may not make for a good game of Legion and might be more suited for Imperial Assault but you can't blame a guy for trying.

The Death Star Hanger bay would look really cool as a war zone. Catwalks around the edges of the map, a bottomless pit, crates, cranes, and a TIE or (gasp!) Falcon model to maneuver around ...

On 2017年9月21日 at 4:55 PM, Ghostofman said:

Sounds like you're in ok shape.

Again though: HirstArts. A hundred bucks now, but days of effort saved.

Thanks, a lot of what I am doing is going to be diorama decals scaled and put on foam core boards. I plan to post some pictures as I go. I did check out Hirst Arts and alot of their molds are really cool. I might consider them for another build.

On 9/21/2017 at 1:26 PM, C3POFETT said:

I would love some dedicated terrain but I am truly set on making an interior build. I am working on a Death Star/Imperial Space Station build. I want a Hangar Bay, Catwalks like a shield generator shut down area, Maintenance areas and a Detention Block.

It may not make for a good game of Legion and might be more suited for Imperial Assault but you can't blame a guy for trying.

I think that would be a great scenario with smaller points and some different army building guidelines...like more spec ops / heroes and no vehicles.

I'd recommend looking at other games like 40k and boltaction for example. Every table is different and if s store is lacking terrain they ask you to bring some pieces or they use very generic terrain for a table. Not flat cardboard.

15 hours ago, Hidatom said:

I think that would be a great scenario with smaller points and some different army building guidelines...like more spec ops / heroes and no vehicles.

My thoughts exactly. I also feel an interior skirmish would feel more objective heavy.