When I first looked at it i though it was a bad mismatch.

You put a penalty for getting shot on a durable (for imps) ps9 arc dodger. But the more i think about it the more i think it's reeally going to screw with target priority.

Do you wear isytds early and possibly more often while your still fresh and take kylo out or deal with the rest of the list 1st and risk it late game when it may make all the difference?

8 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Well it is kind of standard that pilots keep their ability within their subfaction even if they change ships. When looking at Marek Steele in Imperial Veterans he has the same ability in the TIE Defender as he had in the TIE Advanced.

However when a pilot cross factions (even subfactions) the pilot ability changes. Sabine has a different pilot ability in scum than she does in the attack shuttle, Resistance Chewie's pilot ability is different from Rebel Alliance Chewie.

Now with Kylo the question is what faction could he be in other than 1st Order. As for now there is none and probably will never be. Just like Darth Vader will never have a 1stOrder pilot ability.

A vader crew that let you perform two free actions for free.... I'm glad they changed his ability. Whisper with VI and PTL but no stress would probably be a little to good for the time it was released.

8 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

When I first looked at it i though it was a bad mismatch.

You put a penalty for getting shot on a durable (for imps) ps9 arc dodger. But the more i think about it the more i think it's reeally going to screw with target priority.

Do you wear isytds early and possibly more often while your still fresh and take kylo out or deal with the rest of the list 1st and risk it late game when it may make all the difference?

Risking it late game is dangerous. However minus an alpha strike that wipes kylo off the board I think it's reasonable you'll have to take at least 3 to 4 ISYTDS crits in the early game.

Or run rebel chewie and save him for late game to ignore kylo's crits.

In fact i'm not sure why that's not currently a thing. I know Rey Miranda has had some mixed success, but with RAC/Kylo being the go to imp option in competitive meta I'm wondering why people aren't running Nym/Rebel chewie. Or am I missing something here?

12 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Risking it late game is dangerous. However minus an alpha strike that wipes kylo off the board I think it's reasonable you'll have to take at least 3 to 4 ISYTDS crits in the early game.

Or run rebel chewie and save him for late game to ignore kylo's crits.

In fact i'm not sure why that's not currently a thing. I know Rey Miranda has had some mixed success, but with RAC/Kylo being the go to imp option in competitive meta I'm wondering why people aren't running Nym/Rebel chewie. Or am I missing something here?

Everyones too busy calling imps rubbish not worth playing in the meta and running damage output with miranda and dash instead

6 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

Everyones too busy calling imps rubbish not worth playing in the meta and running damage output with miranda and dash instead

see I would agree with that, but I see from the NOVA list some brilliant madman took 4 tie punishers with unguided rockets to top 64 so... I think the forums are just salty.

Not denying that imps aren't currently hurt competitively, and as a result they are severely underplayed, but I don't think there to the point people aren't abandoning their faction completely. it seems people are still flying them some.

28 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

see I would agree with that, but I see from the NOVA list some brilliant madman took 4 tie punishers with unguided rockets to top 64 so... I think the forums are just salty.

Not denying that imps aren't currently hurt competitively, and as a result they are severely underplayed, but I don't think there to the point people aren't abandoning their faction completely. it seems people are still flying them some.

not enough to take chewie over miranda with sabine and points spare for bombs or dash's extra PS and mobility shenanigans though....... it's one of these things i keep harping on about (the limited meta being self forfilling because of the volume of the few "hot" lists) but noone listens...

Kylo-35 points

-PTL (3)

-Adv Sensors (3)

-Title (2)

-Autothrusters (2)

Total=45

Plus a full Vader 35-38 points with an Imperial Trainee as a blocker is a very Nathan Eide type squad and can be very very good in the right hands.

Also, we'll probably go through 2 waves of metas before this hits. So hard to map out how good it is.

6 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Kylo-35 points

-PTL (3)

-Adv Sensors (3)

-Title (2)

-Autothrusters (2)

Total=45

Plus a full Vader 35-38 points with an Imperial Trainee as a blocker is a very Nathan Eide type squad and can be very very good in the right hands.

Also, we'll probably go through 2 waves of metas before this hits. So hard to map out how good it is.

I was thinking that with a Nu/Rho gunboat and OL. Really screw with targeting priorities... Still might be a bit tight though.

1 hour ago, FlyingAnchors said:

A vader crew that let you perform two free actions for free.... I'm glad they changed his ability. Whisper with VI and PTL but no stress would probably be a little to good for the time it was released.

upgrade cards are not the same as pilot cards, otherwise R2-D2 will be regenerating the Falcon shields on a green maneuver, in addition to C-3PO nonsense.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

upgrade cards are not the same as pilot cards, otherwise R2-D2 will be regenerating the Falcon shields on a green maneuver, in addition to C-3PO nonsense.

I heard that is what broke the Star Trek Attack Wing game?

I wish they would have given him a new ability, just because I really despise the whole going trough the damage deck thing.

9 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Risking it late game is dangerous. However minus an alpha strike that wipes kylo off the board I think it's reasonable you'll have to take at least 3 to 4 ISYTDS crits in the early game.

Or run rebel chewie and save him for late game to ignore kylo's crits.

In fact i'm not sure why that's not currently a thing. I know Rey Miranda has had some mixed success, but with RAC/Kylo being the go to imp option in competitive meta I'm wondering why people aren't running Nym/Rebel chewie. Or am I missing something here?

Personally, I'd much rather fly Nym/Leebo. Chewie... just seems weak offensively? At 51 points, Chewie with Predator/Rey/C-3PO/Evade Title fits in nicely with a 47pt Nym, but I just don't feel like he'd get enough work done. He takes time to kill, but it's not that hard. Leebo can still counter nasty Kylo crits somewhat, but has much more serious offensive damage output. Leebo with Lone Wolf/Rey/HLC/Title clocks in at 50 points, leaving 3 for bids, modifications, and illicits.

~~

As to Kylo keeping his pilot ability in general, I think I'm mostly fine with it. As much as I hate Kylo-crew, it's the ease of it which I hate. Take an action at range 3, and done. There's pretty much no counter-play. With pilot-Kylo, I've got options about who I attack him with, who else is going to have a shot on my attacker, and so forth. I've got options. Not good options, but still.

5 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

As to Kylo keeping his pilot ability in general, I think I'm mostly fine with it. As much as I hate Kylo-crew, it's the ease of it which I hate. Take an action at range 3, and done. There's pretty much no counter-play. With pilot-Kylo, I've got options about who I attack him with, who else is going to have a shot on my attacker, and so forth. I've got options. Not good options, but still.

I wouldn't feel bad about easy use Kylo Crew in a world of Nyms, Mirandas, Dengars, and Dashes. The thing I don't like about him is that he's crew, and Imperials don't have any crewed ships that I especially like flying. If Imperials had a solid combat ship with crew that fit into a 3-ship list, ARC170, Scurrg, or K-wing style, a lot of Imperial crew would instantly get better.

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Personally, I'd much rather fly Nym/Leebo. Chewie... just seems weak offensively? At 51 points, Chewie with Predator/Rey/C-3PO/Evade Title fits in nicely with a 47pt Nym, but I just don't feel like he'd get enough work done. He takes time to kill, but it's not that hard. Leebo can still counter nasty Kylo crits somewhat, but has much more serious offensive damage output. Leebo with Lone Wolf/Rey/HLC/Title clocks in at 50 points, leaving 3 for bids, modifications, and illicits.

~~

As to Kylo keeping his pilot ability in general, I think I'm mostly fine with it. As much as I hate Kylo-crew, it's the ease of it which I hate. Take an action at range 3, and done. There's pretty much no counter-play. With pilot-Kylo, I've got options about who I attack him with, who else is going to have a shot on my attacker, and so forth. I've got options. Not good options, but still.

My buddy plays a leebo/chewie list all the time. Knows it in and out. I can say that kylo would be hard pressed getting his ability to trigger on leebo. All he has to do is target him with chewie the whole time til either kylo is dead or chewie is dead. Which if they focus fire on kylo i dont see him last to long. Once its realised i will be testing it on his list.

On 9/10/2017 at 0:36 AM, Warlon said:

I heard that is what broke the Star Trek Attack Wing game?

Well that and other things. You can easily break a game if you don't take everything you consider and test it out in play testing. In Attack Wing they tied the pilot skill with the crew which allows you to make any ship pilot skill 9. However there are a lot of other things tacked on such as accretion and what not. IMHO X-wing was the wrong format for Star Trek, but Attack Wing was made before Armada so it is what it is.

i like that kylo has his ability in the silencer ,

Pair him with a deci or uppsilon , with rebel captive... So you have to chose the lesser evil of the two

Or as we say in Sweden

Päst eller kolera!

15 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

There's already precedent for changing pilot abilities within the same faction (same subfaction even). Dalan Oberos, the SV pilot in GFH, has a completely different pilot ability from his Kimogila counterpart. There's no reason Kylo couldn't change pilot abilities between the Upsilon and Silencer too.

As for Kylo's ability, I think the key will be finding a good wingmate to follow up on the ISYTDS trigger. Especially if Kylo is being used as bait. I'm thinking OL backed by a Palpshuttle. You can guarantee a crit goes through on basically any ship.

I'm feeling a First Order fluff squad with A Score To Settle Omega Leader alongside Omega Ace with the new focus-relay tech and either Trick Shot or Expose (depending on how points work out). Both ships are cheap little crit factories.

I'm actually really excited for the Focus-comm relay; Omega Ace is a lot less clunky when you can bank a focus instead of a target lock. Previously I found you have to A) already be in the scrum, spend an action to get a target lock while not dying, THEN get that target in your arc and focus next turn or B) spend way to many points on supporting Omega Ace (PTL, Targeting Synch, etc). Now you can bank the focus, and spend your turn locking whichever target you're likely to have a shot on.

22 hours ago, FirstOrderProblems said:

Good point. Do you think that's a compelling argument for Advanced Sensors over Fire Control System? Sensors makes it a lot easier to follow after ISYTDS targets, while FCS kind of disincentivizes breaking off.

Maybe that's a good way for Kylo to make his points back; spreading blinded pilots and damaged cockpits while his wingmen clean up.

I think title plus native boost and BR makes advanced sensors better than FCS almost all the time.

I think we are all forgetting Kylo goes through shields.

Endgame ship vs rebel regen? They wont be able to attack you. I will make sure my kylo is 49pts pt more.

"Go ahead corran, shoot me."

"Poe you regenned three shields and have 1 hull left. Thats cute."

6 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I wouldn't feel bad about easy use Kylo Crew in a world of Nyms, Mirandas, Dengars, and Dashes. The thing I don't like about him is that he's crew, and Imperials don't have any crewed ships that I especially like flying. If Imperials had a solid combat ship with crew that fit into a 3-ship list, ARC170, Scurrg, or K-wing style, a lot of Imperial crew would instantly get better.

Snap-Tac Rhymer always has a spare seat on his bus...

I think his ability on an ace is great. It will act as a deterrent for a lot of ships attacking him. It will also have the benefit of being on a chassis with a PS that will allow him to best manoeuvre to get the ISYTDS ship in arc the following round, which was a handicap of the upsilon Kylo if the PS didn't allow a retaliation shot. Manipulating autothrusters also gives you a degree of choice as to which enemy ship takes the condition, whereas the Upsilon almost always takes damage when shot, handing the choice to the opponent. It's better for wingmen being at PS9 as well, as ships like RAC/Palp, and Backdraft will be able to trigger it in the same round having a lower PS.

On 9/9/2017 at 11:59 PM, Boom Owl said:

If you really want to maximize the Kylo Ren RPG......Advanced Sensors + Rage + ISTDs, with Inspiring Recruit nearby on something.

Aaaaaand there's why they didn't put a crew slot on him despite there probably being plenty of **** space in that cockpit.

And it would have been so fluffy too

23 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Aaaaaand there's why they didn't put a crew slot on him despite there probably being plenty of **** space in that cockpit.

And it would have been so fluffy too

But: then you'd have to include something along the lines of "After missing an attack, roll an attack die. On a hit or crit, discard one system upgrade card assigned to you." in his ability text.

Stay fluffy :D

On 9/9/2017 at 9:05 PM, Marinealver said:

Just like Darth Vader will never have a 1stOrder pilot ability.

Well, they have his DNA. Just saying.

On 9/9/2017 at 9:06 PM, DarthEnderX said:

It's fluffy. The best pilots are also likely to have the best pilot abilities.

It does make some thematic sense, but I'd much rather fly in a world where you more often than not get a great pilot ability and mediocre pilot skill, or great pilot skill and a mediocre ability. Best-of-both just means that most of our pilot cards never see serious competitive use.