Theorycrafting: Tie Silencer system slot

By hargleblarg, in X-Wing

Basically, there are 3/4 upgrades that seem worth considering. Fire Control System and Advanced Sensors have probably the strongest cases to be made for them, but we should also consider Collision Detector and Sensor Jammer. Let's run down and pros and cons:

FCS:

Pros: Consistent, actionless firepower makes for a strong ship. A good dial and repositioning make it easier to keep the locked ship in arc.

Cons: First shot does not get the free target lock, and you have to keep shooting the same ship to get the benefit - this is more difficult on a ship that relies on dodging arcs and taking more opportunistic potshots. Also, there's redundancy with the title against non-swarm lists. Finally, Black One Poe laughs off the locks. Jerk.

Adv. Sensors:

Pros: Holy maneuverability, Batman! Block proof, easier to line up shots/dodge arcs, potential to sidestep mines, pre-position PTL and hush away the stress to keep your dial open. End your turn wherever you feel like it.

Cons: Doesn't actually add to your action efficacy except on turns where you would bump or do a red maneuver (and Pattern Analyzer can help with the latter). 3 points starts to get expensive.

Sensor Jammer:

Pros: Negates a hit vs tokenless opponents. On lower ps Silencers, it makes your opponent question spending the focus on offense vs saving it for defense. Especially good vs TLT, which has historically been a problem for arc dodgers.

Cons: Stupid expensive. Useless against Expertise, Overclocked R4, RAC, and A Score To Settle. Most ships won't mind spending a focus terribly much. And again, does not contribute to your action efficiency.

Collision Detector:

Pros: FREE. A ship as expensive as the Silencer is one you generally want to put points to, but by sheer virtue of that cost, sometimes you just can't. The ability to reposition through obstacles is very situational, but sometimes can put you in a great place. Not taking crits from asteroids and debris is significant. It also combos nicely with Primed Thrusters and Intensity over debris for surprising maneuvers.

Cons: Definitely the worst of the above. It's just so situationally useful and is mostly made redundant by good flying. It can also lead to that awkward situation where you want to see if your barrel fits between the rock, but you will be stuck on it if it doesn't. Gross.

So what do you think belongs on our flying pit of emotion? Do you think a case can be made for accuracy corrector? Enlighten me as to why a Minefield Mapper is actually a match made in heaven. I'm listening.

Edited by hargleblarg

Advanced Sensors all the way! It's a pretty amazing upgrade even on the Lambda - combine with the Silencer and we have Scum levels of shenanigans.

Basically FCS or Advanced Sensors are going to be the only two used. And without any double tap abilities, Advanced Sensors seem likely to be the best option, especially with Primed Thrusters available.

If I can get my hands on AS, sure, why not?

But how does it interact with stress?

1 minute ago, Celestial Lizards said:

If I can get my hands on AS, sure, why not?

But how does it interact with stress?

Primed thrusters

Stress has no bearing on sensors other than actioning before clearing stress being a bad idea

Edited by ficklegreendice

I'm liking the look of Sensor Jammer with wingmates that have Juke. Sure, they can spend they're focus when attacking Kylo, but then they're own defense dice will be changed, and they're left without a token. And they may have the dark side showed to them, too.

Pattern Analyzer + Push the Limit can still leave Kylo without stress if he performs a green maneuver, so in that way it's similar to Advanced Sensors. But Advanced Sensors is 1 point more because of pre-maneuver boost/barrel roll shenanigans, and because you get your actions even if you get blocked. It certainly makes for some very interesting decisions.

Pattern Analyzer also means you can't take the Tech upgrade that let's you hold onto focus tokens, which is excellent when paired with Advanced Sensors because you can barrel roll + target lock and still have a focus. I wonder how Intensity fits into this build...

Okay, enough rambling for now. Nice topic.

Collision Detector might be really good with that "Debris something" EPT, but I'm woth the crowd and think FCS and Advanced Sensors are head and shoulders above the others. The more I think about it, the more I don't like Sensor Jammer (at least with the cards we know). It boosts your defense on a ship where defense is already it's strongest asset. Kylo needs to do damage.

Edited by Biophysical

PS9 makes advanced sensors very enticing. It'll depend on meta, but I bet that's what we'll see.

9 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

PS9 makes advanced sensors very enticing. It'll depend on meta, but I bet that's what we'll see.

Yeah. I think PTL/AdvS is the most powerful overall, whereas VI/FCS is the "safe" bet, being cheaper and more Nym resistant. I think I like the first option, with something else to deal with Nym.

Consider the combos with the Tech slot, too.

AdvS+ Primed Thrusters -- you're not virtually unblockable, because you can always get that pre-move boost or barrel roll off.

FCS + Targeting Synchronizer -- set your whole list up for an ordnance strike.

AdvS + Weapon Guidance or Sensor Cluster -- ensure you have a focus, then use it to change blanks.

(PTL +) FCS + Pattern Analyzer -- get multiple actions & fully modified attacks without stress on a green, or even with stress on a red.

(Intensity+) AdvS + Primed Thrusters -- most of the advantages of the above; achieved a different way.

(Intensity+) AdvS + Comms Relay -- be more defensive.

Edited by Hawkstrike
1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

Yeah. I think PTL/AdvS is the most powerful overall, whereas VI/FCS is the "safe" bet, being cheaper and more Nym resistant. I think I like the first option, with something else to deal with Nym.

If it has green turns it'll be bonkers. But without Corran's regen it's hard to work out the real impact.

1 hour ago, Hawkstrike said:

(PTL +) FCS + Pattern Analyzer -- get multiple actions & fully modified attacks without stress on a green, or even with stress on a red.

I forgot about that combo. Why just take PTL + Adv. Sensors when you can have FCS+pseudo Adv. Sensors for 1 point more. This thing is going to be very hard to kill.

5 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

If it has green turns it'll be bonkers. But without Corran's regen it's hard to work out the real impact.

If you look at it's dial in the preview, it's showing a green 2-hard.

I'm excited for this ship, but I think people are forgetting that Soontir's token stacking is what keeps him alive. Without Soontir's extra focus nor a native evade action, this thing is going to have to take damage. That's the one reason I wonder if Sensor Jammer might actually have some value.

27 minutes ago, hargleblarg said:

If you look at it's dial in the preview, it's showing a green 2-hard.

I'm excited for this ship, but I think people are forgetting that Soontir's token stacking is what keeps him alive. Without Soontir's extra focus nor a native evade action, this thing is going to have to take damage. That's the one reason I wonder if Sensor Jammer might actually have some value.

Fel is definitely tougher to hit, but with double the hit points, better maneuverability (with Advanced Sensors, at least) and the ability to qeue up Blinded Pilot, the overall durability comparison isn't really clear to me.

Lets not forget the generics.

If Kylo's PS9 is worth an extra point, like Poe9 vs poe8, and his pilot ability is worth one, the Sienar-Jamus pilot (PS4) may be 28 points, or lower if they realize arcdogers with low PS cant arcdodge.

Autothrusters, Title, colission detector and Primed Thrusters lets you fit 3 of them in.

4 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Pattern Analyzer also means you can't take the Tech upgrade that let's you hold onto focus tokens

No such Tech exists. Comm Relay makes you keep a single evade. You're thinking of the HWK title.

2 hours ago, Hawkstrike said:

(PTL +) FCS + Pattern Analyzer -- get multiple actions & fully modified attacks without stress on a green, or even with stress on a red.

I'm not sure I get this. The turn you PTL for double action, Pattern Analyzer doesn't apply. In the following turn, if you do a green and clear the stress, PA still doesn't have reason to apply. And you can't do a red because you're stressed. And until you clear that stress PA essentially does nothing for you. So I assume the idea is to start with a red while unstressed, and that turn you still get to PTL thanks to PA. You'll end up with two stress tokens, though. I'm not sure I would ever want to put two stress tokens on an arc dodger.

Am I missing something?

3 minutes ago, Kumagoro said:

No such Tech exists. Comm Relay makes you keep a single evade. You're thinking of the HWK title.

The silencer comes with a tech that perfectly lines up with Comm Relay's text, except with "Fo-" where comm relay says "evade".

Also, you dial in a green maneuver, pattern analiser a PTL for a stress, then resolve the green move to remove the stress.

Edited by Rakaydos
2 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

The silencer comes with a tech that perfectly lines up with Comm Relay's text, except with "Fo-" where comm relay says "evade"

Oh, I missed that. Seems too good to be true. It's probably a single focus, unlike the HWK's infinite focus battery (which is balanced by the fact that, well, it's a HWK).

Edited by Kumagoro
Just now, Kumagoro said:

Oh, I missed that. Seems too good to be true. It's probably a single focus, unlike the HWK's infinite focus battery.

It's definately a single focus, just like comm relay. That's included in aligning the words up right.

Adv Sensors and Primed Thrusters seems like a good basic combo. Then put PTL on and you can get two actions before you perform your maneuver(clearing the stress).

With a green hard 2, it's almost assured that all it's 2s are green. Likely it has green 1 banks, maybe white 1 hards. Probably S-loops(maybe white!?!)

Or instead of Primed Thrusters that Advanced Op(tics) card for a banked focus.

Edited by BadMotivator
3 minutes ago, Kumagoro said:

I'm not sure I get this. The turn you PTL for double action, Pattern Analyzer doesn't apply. In the following turn, if you do a green and clear the stress, PA still doesn't have reason to apply. And you can't do a red because you're stressed. And until you clear that stress PA essentially does nothing for you. So I assume the idea is to start with a red while unstressed, and that turn you still get to PTL thanks to PA. You'll end up with two stress tokens, though. I'm not sure I would ever want to put two stress tokens on an arc dodger.

Am I missing something?

Here's the play-by-play:

Turn 1, 0 stress. You reveal a green maneuver, perform it. Use Pattern Analyzer to delay the "check pilot stress" step. Perform action, PTL, now stress = 1. Delayed "check pilot stress" now occurs, removing a stress because you dialed in a green. Stress = 0 at the end of the turn.

The red maneuver turn, you probably don't PTL, but Pattern Analyzer still lets you take an action you wouldn't have had otherwise.

I feel like the Tech slot is going to be a tough choice because there are so many strong options. It will probably become meta and playstyle dependent.

2 minutes ago, hargleblarg said:

Here's the play-by-play:

Turn 1, 0 stress. You reveal a green maneuver, perform it. Use Pattern Analyzer to delay the "check pilot stress" step. Perform action, PTL, now stress = 1. Delayed "check pilot stress" now occurs, removing a stress because you dialed in a green. Stress = 0 at the end of the turn.

The red maneuver turn, you probably don't PTL, but Pattern Analyzer still lets you take an action you wouldn't have had otherwise.

Exactly, and sometimes you just want to perform actions after a move. There is a lot of overlap, but I could see it being good.

I think this is going to depend on what you pair it with. In the end we might see alot of Silencers that just take an EPT and Autothrusters to stay below 40 pts so something that is durable and can actually land crits can fit.

Basically I want to staple PTL/AS or VI/FCS to this as much as the next person.

But I cant see using this without autothrusters which presents a small problem.

In the end if the PS7 has an EPT that will see more play with RAC/Kylo I think.

At the moment I am thinking something like this:

Kylo Ren (TIE Silencer) — TIE Silencer 35
Push the Limit 3
Advanced Sensors 3
Primed Thrusters 1
Autothrusters 2
First Order Vanguard 2
Ship Total: 46
Kath Scarlet — Firespray-31 38
Expertise 4
"Mangler" Cannon 4
Rebel Captive 3
Engine Upgrade 4
Ship Total: 53

Or

Kylo Ren (TIE Silencer) — TIE Silencer 35
Calculation 1
Fire-Control System 2
Autothrusters 2
Ship Total: 40
Darth Vader — TIE Advanced 29
Veteran Instincts 1
Cruise Missiles 3
Advanced Targeting Computer 1
Guidance Chips 0
TIE/x1 0
Ship Total: 34
"Omega Leader" — TIE/fo Fighter 21
Juke 2
Comm Relay 3
Ship Total: 26
Edited by Boom Owl

Personally, I think the only question is whether the PS4 has an EPT.