Compared to selling fixes for existing ships bundled with $60-100 epic ships, this is minor. The pure exploitation era began with the raider.

1 hour ago, kraedin said:

The pure exploitation era began with the raider.

Well, if you're going to use that particular brand of faulty logic, it began with the Tantive IV.

3 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Well, if you're going to use that particular brand of faulty logic, it began with the Tantive IV.

Agreed.
Also, I'm not convinced by those saying that the Silencer is a mini Imperial starter set. No, it's not. It comes with one ship. One dial. A couple duplicate upgrades (which I feel like used to be more prevalent).
There are core sets, that allow you to play the game. And there's Most Wanted, which truly was a mini start set. Then there are expansion packs - that allow you to fly one ship.

The price on this one ship is higher than they've priced them in the past. Period. And it hardly seems justified by what we've seen. Ooooooh two sets of Autothrusters! It's like when we were forced to buy a Star Viper but you also get the new Interceptor!

There's some faulty logic for you...

56 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Well, if you're going to use that particular brand of faulty logic, it began with the Tantive IV.

Nah. You don't need C-3PO to play the Falcon.

Explaining to a new player that you need to pick up a $100 ship to get Darth Vader on the table as a meaningful threat isn't fun.

Also noteworthy is the raider included the fix for the TIE advanced. Palp turned out to be the lasting dent on the meta but when the Raider first came out the TIE advanced fix was a big deal

1 hour ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

The price on this one ship is higher than they've priced them in the past. Period.

No, it's not. It's the same price as the ships in boxes with similar sizes (IG2000, Uwing).

PLEASE stop fixating on the size of the base as a calling card.

1 minute ago, Kdubb said:

No, it's not. It's the same price as the ships in boxes with similar sizes (IG2000, Uwing).

PLEASE stop fixating on the size of the base as a calling card.

You're clearly convinced it was a) necessary to have this ship in a larger box, and b) that that should somehow translate to a literal doubling in price for what is amounting to the same value as a small-base ship (which is why so many of us are fixating on it).

If they maintained the game better they'd sell more ships and they wouldn't need to hike the prices up.

If they maintained the game better they'd sell more ships and they wouldn't need to hike the prices up.

Burn.

23 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

You're clearly convinced it was a) necessary to have this ship in a larger box, and b) that that should somehow translate to a literal doubling in price for what is amounting to the same value as a small-base ship (which is why so many of us are fixating on it).

At the very least the Silencer would been in a $20 blister, and last I checked 30 is not double 20. The amount of cardboard and extra upgrades definitely wouldn't fit in either blister pack. If anything you should have been pissed that the IG2000 was on a large base in a box 5-6 waves ago, or the U-wing stuck in a box as a large base as well. Both ships would have been better served as small bases, but perhaps they would still be worth the higher price in a 30 dollar box because of all the stuff they come with, and the fact that they would be free of the fatness of that large base.

if the Silencer is a price hike it's still just 10 bucks more than the 'medium' ship price.

6 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Burn.

Pretty sure they still sell tons more ships, cardboard and half sheet pamphlets than anyone on this forum.

2 hours ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Agreed.
Also, I'm not convinced by those saying that the Silencer is a mini Imperial starter set. No, it's not. It comes with one ship. One dial. A couple duplicate upgrades

TFA Starter set 40 or less

Fo tie 15

sf tie 15

Upsilon 40

Silencer 30

thats 140 or less depending on clearance and discounts for a full set of FO ships, 6 in all plus an extra X-wing, that's 20 bucks for each ship including that big ok shuttle. Plenty of stuff for many different lists at what I think is a great price for a minis game. That's your 'starter' for the 'empire'.

I'm pretty sure the Silence was meant to be a large based ship, but they didn't want to set that precedent of having a large based ship with boost and barrel roll. Can't say I blame them.

The model was probably already set, so it was easier to change the size of the base instead of the size of the model.

But i'm probably giving the developers too much credit.

13 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Pretty sure they still sell tons more ships, cardboard and half sheet pamphlets than anyone on this forum.

Lol at this.. Quite a, uh, comparison..

2 hours ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

The price on this one ship is higher than they've priced them in the past.

No it's not.

Higher than what? Base size?

Large bases have to ship in boxes because they don't fit into small blisters. So not base size but the largest piece determines what box and also what price it will be. Why is it so difficult to understand?

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

No it's not.

Higher than what? Base size?

Large bases have to ship in boxes because they don't fit into small blisters. So not base size but the largest piece determines what box and also what price it will be. Why is it so difficult to understand?

Literally repeating what I said moments ago, which you don't understand:

You're clearly convinced it was a) necessary to have this ship in a larger box, and b) that that should somehow translate to a literal doubling in price for what is amounting to the same value as a small-base ship (which is why so many of us are fixating on it).

4 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Literally repeating what I said moments ago, which you don't understand:

You're clearly convinced it was a) necessary to have this ship in a larger box, and b) that that should somehow translate to a literal doubling in price for what is amounting to the same value as a small-base ship (which is why so many of us are fixating on it).

B naturally follows. They pay per volume, so of course, yes.

A will only be known once we have the model. But we can already deduce that they would never go to a $30 pack if a $20 pack would fit. Again because they earn more if they go with the lower volume, as they pay less for shipping the same amount of ships.

That tells us that they did it because they had to. And we've all seen how guys like you react if a ship could be out of scale by few millimeters...

9 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

B naturally follows. They pay per volume, so of course, yes.

A will only be known once we have the model. But we can already deduce that they would never go to a $30 pack if a $20 pack would fit. Again because they earn more if they go with the lower volume, as they pay less for shipping the same amount of ships.

That tells us that they did it because they had to. And we've all seen how guys like you react if a ship could be out of scale by few millimeters...

Are you saying they would have gone with a smaller blister if possible to fit more blisters into a shipping container? I can get behind that because it makes sense - but that doesn't change the value of the ship, based on historic ship "values" - even comparing this one to the $20 blisters is a 50% increase.

Well, now you're being obnoxious. I don't give a **** about scale.. Closest thing I've complained about is hull value (Quadjumper v. A-Wing) because of fluff reasons.

Here's a follow-up: What would the players prefer: A ship that is 90-95% of it's true-to-scale size or the price go up 50-100%?

I think the answer is pretty obvious, but then again, guys like you would say differently just to argue.

5 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Are you saying they would have gone with a smaller blister if possible to fit more blisters into a shipping container? I can get behind that because it makes sense - but that doesn't change the value of the ship, based on historic ship "values" - even comparing this one to the $20 blisters is a 50% increase.

Yes, that's what we've been repeating for 8 pages now!

Historic ship values are misconceptions by us as players because correlation is not causation. You don't pay for any 'value', you pay for shipping and storage volume. And this price is made bearable by adding printed paper with almost zero inherent value. And by artificially increasing the power of the plastic piece.

The connection you and others made between 'large', many upgrades and 'value' is simply wrong.

12 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Yes, that's what we've been repeating for 8 pages now!

Historic ship values are misconceptions by us as players because correlation is not causation. You don't pay for any 'value', you pay for shipping and storage volume. And this price is made bearable by adding printed paper with almost zero inherent value. And by artificially increasing the power of the plastic piece.

The connection you and others made between 'large', many upgrades and 'value' is simply wrong.

Not quite. And misconception is not the right word. You have separate perceived value from cost of sales and net or else you'll never understand my point, which is that there is no value added for customers because this thing comes in a larger box.

If FFG truly makes more margin on smaller blisters, they would have made it fit - and I know this for the same reasons you mentioned: they want to make money.

My point is that this ship is not more valuable to us because it won't fit into a smaller blister - the (presumed) fact that they are increasing the box size and justifying it by saying it's to scale (while not maintaining scale for all other prior ships, I might add) is exploitation. I would also love to see the real numbers and margins because I'm not buying the argument that shipping is 50-100% more for large boxes.

45 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Literally repeating what I said moments ago, which you don't understand:

You're clearly convinced it was a) necessary to have this ship in a larger box, and b) that that should somehow translate to a literal doubling in price for what is amounting to the same value as a small-base ship (which is why so many of us are fixating on it).

I think you are getting overly hung up on the Silencer being charged double what it should. It is not. By its size, it would be in at least the larger blister pack. This is also supported by that aside from the title (which you only need one of per Silencer) and Sensor Jammer (an upgrade already available in two previous expansions), all other upgrade cards come in twos. This is a general distinction between the smaller and larger blisters. If a smaller, than we would get one of each upgrade, where as the larger brings two of something new (TLT from K-Wing, AT from Starviper, Cruise Missile from Scrugg, and so on).

While I will hold my judgement whether it is worth $30 until I know more, I do think it is clearly worth $20, thus making the "double price" claim feel like an exaggeration.

18 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Not quite. And misconception is not the right word. You have separate perceived value from cost of sales and net or else you'll never understand my point, which is that there is no value added for customers because this thing comes in a larger box.

The connection of your value and their price is a misconception. They are not linked.

18 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

If FFG truly makes more margin on smaller blisters, they would have made it fit - and I know this for the same reasons you mentioned: they want to make money.

They also and intentionally took smaller margins on the new Falcon I believe? FFG is not a very rational business, sometimes that's bad, sometimes that's good for us.

19 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

My point is that this ship is not more valuable to us because it won't fit into a smaller blister - the (presumed) fact that they are increasing the box size and justifying it by saying it's to scale (while not maintaining scale for all other prior ships, I might add) is exploitation. I would also love to see the real numbers and margins because I'm not buying the argument that shipping is 50-100% more for large boxes.

You keep repeating "value" as if that was in any way connected to prize or even relevant.

Do the math yourself. I would if you got me the dimensions of the different packagings. Also I'm not saying that the size of the box is the only source of cost to consider - some molds are more complicated than others for example! I could well imagine that four pointy ends result more frequently in unusable ships than e.g. the scurrg.

4 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

I think you are getting overly hung up on the Silencer being charged double what it should. It is not. By its size, it would be in at least the larger blister pack. This is also supported by that aside from the title (which you only need one of per Silencer) and Sensor Jammer (an upgrade already available in two previous expansions), all other upgrade cards come in twos. This is a general distinction between the smaller and larger blisters. If a smaller, than we would get one of each upgrade, where as the larger brings two of something new (TLT from K-Wing, AT from Starviper, Cruise Missile from Scrugg, and so on).

While I will hold my judgement whether it is worth $30 until I know more, I do think it is clearly worth $20, thus making the "double price" claim feel like an exaggeration.

Fair, but I've changed my rhetoric to "50-100%" over historic costs.
The double upgrades is great and agree that fact puts it into the $20 range (so 50%) - but still, not $30.

5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

The connection of your value and their price is a misconception. They are not linked.

You keep repeating "value" as if that was in any way connected to prize or even relevant.

Maybe hearing the word from another source will make you think about it: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/value.asp

Value:

The monetary, material or assessed worth of an asset, good or service. In accounting, value describes what something is worth in terms of something else.

In economics, value describes the merit of the benefits of ownership. The benefits of ownership include utility, the pleasure or satisfaction gained by consumption of a particular good or service; and power, the ability of a good or service to be exchanged for other goods, services or money.

5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Do the math yourself. I would if you got me the dimensions of the different packagings. Also I'm not saying that the size of the box is the only source of cost to consider - some molds are more complicated than others for example! I could well imagine that four pointy ends result more frequently in unusable ships than e.g. the scurrg.

So the Defender should have been how much, based on this logic? The Striker, with it's moving parts to boot?

Also, I have no idea of their cost of sales. They are a private company and cannot even begin to guess the contracts/SLA/terms of their logistics partners.

1 minute ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Maybe hearing the word from another source will make you think about it: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/value.asp

Value:

The monetary, material or assessed worth of an asset, good or service. In accounting, value describes what something is worth in terms of something else.

In economics, value describes the merit of the benefits of ownership. The benefits of ownership include utility, the pleasure or satisfaction gained by consumption of a particular good or service; and power, the ability of a good or service to be exchanged for other goods, services or money.

Allright, I should have made myself more clear:

Your percieved value is not linked with their determined value by prize. Your percieved value is made based on a misconception.

3 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Fair, but I've changed my rhetoric to "50-100%" over historic costs.
The double upgrades is great and agree that fact puts it into the $20 range (so 50%) - but still, not $30.

Something else that adds value (again, not necessarily trying to say full $30) is that it has multiple doubles. Ships like the Starviper, K-Wing, and Scurrg only brought doubles of one upgrade, while still bringing some new non-unique upgrades to the game.