1 hour ago, Embir82 said:

Because forums are exactly for that. To share opinions.
If his dissapointment with prices bothers you why are you here at all? Clearly sharing thoughts with others or having to accept their point of view is unimaginable, or even unbearable, for you.

Forums used to be a place for discussion, not ******** your emotional distress into the world. Though elections used to be a vote based on the your conclusions of discourse and not ******** your emotional distress into the world either. Opinions are like assholes, no one wants to see them undemanded.

With that said, I think ******** in forums is healthy, so fire away, get it out of your system before the elections … which metaphorical is the release of those ships and everyone can vote with their wallet. The rebel bomber most definitely looks like another 10€ ship to me, just like the upsilon shuttle.

2 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

Compared to what? The MSRP prices haven't changed.

Personally, I'm fine with whatever ships cost, provided they come with roughly the right amount of upgrades for the standard price tag. If the Silencer has the same number of upgrades as any $30 large-base ship, contains about the same amount of plastic, I don't care if it's on small pegs (unless it looks silly on the table).

However, it's worth noting that prior to the Starviper, all small-base ships were $15, and prior to the Decimator, all large base ships were $30. Since then, there has been a $20 small base per wave on average (one wave didn't, one had two), and many waves have had a $40 large-base model. If going forward, $15 small-base and $30 large base ships start to become more rare than their bigger $20/$40 equivalents, I think it'd be fair to say that prices have gone up. I don't think we're really there, though.

The flipside to this is that Guns for Hire and Heroes of the Resistance each have MSRP $5 lower than the combination of the original ships, whereas other aces packs had the same MRSP.

23 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Personally, I'm fine with whatever ships cost, provided they come with roughly the right amount of upgrades for the standard price tag. If the Silencer has the same number of upgrades as any $30 large-base ship, contains about the same amount of plastic, I don't care if it's on small pegs (unless it looks silly on the table).

However, it's worth noting that prior to the Starviper, all small-base ships were $15, and prior to the Decimator, all large base ships were $30. Since then, there has been a $20 small base per wave on average (one wave didn't, one had two), and many waves have had a $40 large-base model. If going forward, $15 small-base and $30 large base ships start to become more rare than their bigger $20/$40 equivalents, I think it'd be fair to say that prices have gone up. I don't think we're really there, though.

The flipside to this is that Guns for Hire and Heroes of the Resistance each have MSRP $5 lower than the combination of the original ships, whereas other aces packs had the same MRSP.

Prio to the starviper and the decimator, the respective ship classes also had smaller ships.

For me the thing that is being overlooked is the design choice. U-Wing and Agressor got large bases to limit maneuverability. K-Wing and Punisher got small bases for increased maneuverability. Now the Silencer appears to be a large base ship, but the put it on a small base meaning the wanted it to have better maneuvering.

I think it is an interesting choice.

1 hour ago, Segmentvs said:

For me the thing that is being overlooked is the design choice. U-Wing and Agressor got large bases to limit maneuverability. K-Wing and Punisher got small bases for increased maneuverability. Now the Silencer appears to be a large base ship, but the put it on a small base meaning the wanted it to have better maneuvering.

I think it is an interesting choice.

I thought it was widely accepted large bases move better which is why they nerfed barrel rolls, it's too much of an advantage. Also people have said large base boosting has been nearly broken since the falcon did it way back when.

17 hours ago, Kdubb said:

If it wasn't a small base and had a large base for the cost, would you be ok paying $30?

Well if it was a large base and a bigger model, the price would make sense. We are talking about almost double the usual price here.

Now would i buy it as a large base ship? If it has the same stats and no upgrade cards worth it, my answer is no. I bought 4 aggressors last wave and i've decided to hold on purchasing any other Imperial ship until their results have been largely tested or it's obvious from the start the ship is good. Here unless there is a "savior" upgrade card that has not been revealed yet or the lower ps pilot turns out to have an amazing ability, the ship is garbage.

We already have a ship with the same stats and a good dial to compare at the same pts cost. Corran would not be played if he has Kylo's ability and thrusters instead of regen. Thats 100% sure.

On 9/8/2017 at 8:12 PM, JJ48 said:

I'd just point out that it's not simply the plastic that drives up the price, but the packaging and card printing as well.

Don't forget paying for the license, creating the molds, shipping from China to the rest of world, paint operations on the ships, design and development costs, overhead etc.

58 minutes ago, Spikenog said:

Don't forget paying for the license, creating the molds, shipping from China to the rest of world, paint operations on the ships, design and development costs, overhead etc.

Wait... are you telling me that FFG is a business and has to factor in more costs than actual production materials?!?

WELL THAT IS JUST RIDICULOUS SIR. I SAY GOOD DAY TO YOU!

56 minutes ago, Timathius said:

Wait... are you telling me that FFG is a business and has to factor in more costs than actual production materials?!?

WELL THAT IS JUST RIDICULOUS SIR. I SAY GOOD DAY TO YOU!

The actual plastic is likely the cheapest part of the process.

And, good day to you as well!

6 hours ago, Thormind said:

Well if it was a large base and a bigger model, the price would make sense. We are talking about almost double the usual price here.

Now would i buy it as a large base ship? If it has the same stats and no upgrade cards worth it, my answer is no. I bought 4 aggressors last wave and i've decided to hold on purchasing any other Imperial ship until their results have been largely tested or it's obvious from the start the ship is good. Here unless there is a "savior" upgrade card that has not been revealed yet or the lower ps pilot turns out to have an amazing ability, the ship is garbage.

We already have a ship with the same stats and a good dial to compare at the same pts cost. Corran would not be played if he has Kylo's ability and thrusters instead of regen. Thats 100% sure.

Double the usual price as compared to what? Every ship that has come in a box this size (even those of comparable size like the IG2000 and Uwing) has been at or near this cost. One can reasonably assume the contents will be of similar or equivalent value, except maybe... half a cent worth of plastic and cardboard for the base.

Your evaluation beyond that is a perfectly normal consumer outlook on whether or not to purchase an item, although you seem to be jumping the gun on the ship itself being "garbage" with the limited info we have.

Im just really caught off guard that this many people are upset they have to pay $30, but are perfectly okay with paying that much for a ship of equatable size with equatable content in the pack just because it sits on a bigger square.

37 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

Double the usual price as compared to what? Every ship that has come in a box this size (even those of comparable size like the IG2000 and Uwing) has been at or near this cost. One can reasonably assume the contents will be of similar or equivalent value, except maybe... half a cent worth of plastic and cardboard for the base.

Your evaluation beyond that is a perfectly normal consumer outlook on whether or not to purchase an item, although you seem to be jumping the gun on the ship itself being "garbage" with the limited info we have.

Im just really caught off guard that this many people are upset they have to pay $30, but are perfectly okay with paying that much for a ship of equatable size with equatable content in the pack just because it sits on a bigger square.

From what i can see, the only reason why its in a box like that is because the wings are a little too long to fit in the usual packaging. Compare the content of that box with a Kwing, Punisher or Scurrg Xpac and it's similar. So you are paying an extra 10$ for a box...

Like i said if there is an upgrade in there that wake the ship better than a really bad Corran Horn, i will be upset about the price but i "might" buy. So far everything previewed suggest that Imperials are getting the worst stuff again.

Uh, guys? It's $30. The ships aren't coming out until "early 2018". Even if they come out the very first Thursday of 2018, that still gives you 113 days.

If you can't save up $30 in more than 3 months...I'm not being a jerk but you really shouldn't be playing a game like this at all.

At least this isn't GW that says "surprise, you can buy a $140 model kit next week! And if you want to stay on top of the new codex creep, you have to! Toodles!"

3 hours ago, Thormind said:

From what i can see, the only reason why its in a box like that is because the wings are a little too long to fit in the usual packaging. Compare the content of that box with a Kwing, Punisher or Scurrg Xpac and it's similar. So you are paying an extra 10$ for a box...

But my point is that this is the exact case with the IG2000 and Uwing expansions. They are maybe just a tad too large for a blister pack, and come in a box just like the Silencer, are similar sizes to the Silencer, and come with similar card counts as the Silencer.

So if you are upset about the $30 price tag, you should be upset about the IG2000 and Uwing price tag as well.

Yet, for some reason, everyone is upset now and not then, apparently because of the base size this ship sits on being smaller than those ships? Which, at least to me, seems like an incredibly silly thing to be upset about.

On 9/8/2017 at 8:41 PM, Cubanboy said:

AM I allowed to point out wave 8 was close to 200 bucks and this is much cheaper. The packs come with a ton of dup cards and I dont think you can fit more then 1 in a 106 game.....

Wave 8 - Ghost 50 /Jump 30 /Core set 40 / Inq 15 / Mist 20 / T-70 15 / Tie FO 15.

wave 12 - Tie S 30 / Bomb 40/ Shut 15 / Scum 20/ Reb 15.

the ghost is a 2 ship pac, one of which is basically an epic, so 50 was iffy but ok.

the core set isnt part of the wave, its a starter set with 3 ships. 13 bucks a ship too.

everthimg else in the wave was a $15 small, $20 small+, or $30 large... so normal pricing.

$30 for a small+ and $40 for a standard large is abnormal pricing

2 hours ago, Kdubb said:

But my point is that this is the exact case with the IG2000 and Uwing expansions. They are maybe just a tad too large for a blister pack, and come in a box just like the Silencer, are similar sizes to the Silencer, and come with similar card counts as the Silencer.

So if you are upset about the $30 price tag, you should be upset about the IG2000 and Uwing price tag as well.

Yet, for some reason, everyone is upset now and not then, apparently because of the base size this ship sits on being smaller than those ships? Which, at least to me, seems like an incredibly silly thing to be upset about.

Their pricing have always been the same. Its the first time they sell a small base for 30$. Yeah, people are upset.

2 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

the ghost is a 2 ship pac, one of which is basically an epic, so 50 was iffy but ok.

the core set isnt part of the wave, its a starter set with 3 ships. 13 bucks a ship too.

everthimg else in the wave was a $15 small, $20 small+, or $30 large... so normal pricing.

$30 for a small+ and $40 for a standard large is abnormal pricing

40 for a large ship is in no way abnormal. All of the bigger large base ships have been 40. The smaller ones are 30. And this looks like probably the biggest small base ship they've released, basically equivalent to a couple large bases, with a similar number of upgrades. Literally the only difference I see is that the base is smaller

And it's because of threads like this that I so seldom bother to post here any more...

If you don't think it's worth the price don't buy it. But posting here and whine about the price will accomplish exactly nothing. FFG doesn't bother to read posts like this, the only thing that will actually matter to them is sales. If these two ships sell well, and we all know they will, that simply proves they were the proper price.

I love how people actually believe they won't buy this ship. When someone figures out a tricky list, they'll buy 2 or 3 no problem. I wonder how all those guys with 3 jumpmasters are doing right now?

Finally something unique for the Empire... A $30 small ship...

The Silencer is a small based ship. however it seems to be about the same size as the U-Wing. However the U-Wing is about the same size as bigger small based ships like the punisher or the havoc. The argument for pricing ist with 30$ is probably more that it comes in a big box with more upgrade cards and a scenario.
The 40$ for the Flying Fortress seem a bit much from what we have seen so far, however that price tag may as well hint that the ship is actually a bit larger then what we expect so far from seeing the preview pictures. Which would be good imho as it lookes somewhat small to me.

13 hours ago, Thormind said:

Their pricing have always been the same. Its the first time they sell a small base for 30$. Yeah, people are upset.

And they are being ridiculed for it because the base size is a strange metric to fixate on.

Even more ridiculous: we have so many complaints about the B/SF-17 possibly being out of scale. But heaven forbid they make the Silencer in scale, end up too large for a small blister and have to adjust the price because large boxes are more expensive to ship and store.

Look at the Silencer as a new "Imperial Starter Set". It's amazing to me they're actually addressing a long held complaint regarding important upgrades being scattered over a lot of undesired ships and people are flipping their lid over it.

This is actually a pretty good deal for newer players who aren't going to have to hunt for upgrades that were once scattered over several different packs/ships.

So ... much ... whining...

When looking at a $30-40 MSRP, bear in mind that isn't what FFG gets. It usually goes something along these lines:

1. FLGS has a 50% profit margin on a per-unit basis. Mainly because they rarely sell-out all the units, so they don't actually make any profit at all unless they can sell more than half of what they order. So they're buying from the distributor at around $15-20 per unit. They may only get one of each ship, but any ship in the wave that doesn't sell is a sunk cost to the store. If they only sell the $30 ship and the $40 one sits on the shelf? They've lost money. For that matter, even if they sell half of what they buy, they're still potentially losing money, because in addition to the cost of the units from the distributor, they have to pay rent, pay employees, and any other business expenses. All of that comes out of whatever profit margin they make. Gaming stores generally are living right on the edge, if they even make money at all. On the bright side, they don't have to make all of their money off of FFG products. They've got other lines, some of which sell better than others.
2. The distributor takes another 50% profit margin. They're buying from FFG at around $7.5-10 per unit, but only because they are buying in bulk. They, too, have expenses, including warehousing, shipping and employee costs. They can also get stuck with unsold goods, though they generally try to only buy what they've already sold to a store. On the other hand, if FFG is selling them cases that include 20 units, and they've got orders from stores for only 5 units, they'll end up taking a loss. (I'm making up numbers here, because I don't know how many units FFG ships in a case, but you can adjust to real numbers as you see fit).
3. Now here's where many people seem to think that FFG now gets all the money and just has to pay for the cost of supplies. That's actually quite wrong. FFG doesn't own factories in China. They contract that out. Those factories have their own profit margin - they aren't going to just make things at cost, plus those factories are paying costs beyond just the cost of the plastic to make the ships themselves. So, FFG is likely only getting around a 50% profit margin themselves. The cost from the factory plus shipping means that at this point, FFG is making around $3.75-5 per unit on the larger ships. And that profit margin has to cover their own rent, payroll, etc, etc. Oh, and licensing fees. They don't get to ship a game with the Star Wars logo on it for free. Every unit has a fee that goes straight to Lucasfilm. I'll note most gaming companies live on the edge. FFG is better off than most, but they still were in the kind of shape that led them to decide that merging with Asmodee was necessary.
4. The Chinese factory is not just paying for the cost of the plastic, but they are paying off the costs of molds (each one generally costs on the order of $1000 USD), the costs of the machinery (not cheap), rent, payroll (even being lower than US labor, this is still not cheap), etc, etc.

The bigger problem with the larger ships isn't the cost of the plastic. It's the amount of space they take up on the shelves of the FLGS. Taking up more space means either a larger store, which means more rent, or it means not putting other products on shelves. If the larger ship cost the same as a smaller ship, the FLGS wouldn't want to carry the larger ship - they could put two (or more) of the smaller ship on the same amount of shelf space, and reduce their risk of an all-or-nothing sale. So long as there is demand for the larger ship at the higher price point, then having the higher price point is a different way of mitigating the risk. Higher price point means higher profit, after all.

The TIE Silencer clearly doesn't fit in even the larger of the two blister packs. So they went with the smaller box. They're trying to make that worth it by including a lot more upgrade cards than they would normally would for a small-base ship. They could have tried other approaches, but those would have had their own risks and costs associated with them. So they're taking a risk by putting it in a box instead of a blister. Time will tell if that risk pays off. But I don't think it's a purely money-grabbing move. If they just wanted to do that, they could easily just raise the MSRP for all their products and say that inflation is catching up with them (it's actually kind of amazing this hasn't happened already, to be honest).

Please open the license for sales and support for Asia and the other affected regions...