48 minutes ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

Oh, and the 'Aryan race' thing was also rubbish to begin with, again well before the Nazis turned it into 'master race!!!' extremism.

Do you mean in the sense of there ever having been an "Aryan" race, the German people having descended from it, or something else?

Just now, Ide Yoshiya said:

Do you mean in the sense of there ever having been an "Aryan" race, the German people having descended from it, or something else?

There are a lot of historical and anthropological books and research papers that have pretty much completely disproven that the idea the German (and some other Europeans) are directly /purely descended from proto Indo-Iranian peoples, dating back to Sancsrit era language.

Some scholars still use 'Aryan' to reference ancient Indo / pre-Persian peoples, but it's generally considered a mostly useless term.

3 hours ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

Eugenics was always absolute horse manure, and it always ended up being applied in horrific ways. Many people in America used it to justify mass forced-sterilizations and other atrocities well before the Nazis ran with it to its 'logical' end-point.

Oh, and the 'Aryan race' thing was also rubbish to begin with, again well before the Nazis turned it into 'master race!!!' extremism.

Just to clarify. How eugenics and the aryan race are used by the facist states are horrible concepts. I won't argue against that.

However, the aryan race was once used simply to describe someone of european descent. Pretty much like we use the word caucasian today.

And eugenics is the concept of carefully selecting partners for reproduction in order to get offsprings with desirable traits. Something we used with farm animals and pets for millenia (how do you think we ended up with so many radically different dog breeds?). The nazis (and others before them) then came and applied this concept to humans and that's when things went wrong...very wrong.

At first, they were pretty tame words, but became corrupted by a horrible ideology. Like you said, Eugenism is wrong and the Aryan race is a stupid totalitarian propaganda, but that's because their actual meaning changed over time. That's what I meant.

In many parts of Asia, you can find temples covered with swastikas. They are not nazis hideout but buddhist shrines whose original symbolism was stolen by nazi germany and transformed into something else completly, just like Eugenics and the Aryan race.

Edit: it seems that Eugenism isn't how you write it in English. Eugenics is the proper term. I apologise, I kept using the french form Eugenism.

I didn't see anybody point this out:

Banzai is still used as a cheer in modern Japan, even in formal contexts. The House of Representatives shouts banzai three times when the diet is dissolved.

In the West it has a certain historical context due to its WW2 infamy, but in Japan, it's still just a normal thing.

Words are important, but banzai fails the two big conditions for being problematic:

1. It's not being said with hostile intent.

2. Its use does not validate the problematic beliefs of others.

Edit: that said, these are always good discussions to have. Concluding that it's okay doesn't mean it wasn't important to seriously consider.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Not the criticism, but the outrage. It was a few sentences in the appendix of a review. It was so tangential to the piece that the author didn't even include it in the main body. Now every place in the internet that discusses L5R is has a thread like this of people getting offended at how other people are too easily offended.

He said it made him feel "a tiny bit weird." That's a pretty damning rebuke right there. /s

For those who are upset by the comments I recommend this browser extention. It will save you tons of stress.

I'm new to L5R and very interested in the game. I look forward to playing it many times. That said, the chant at the start of tournaments is something I don't like and I won't participate in.

Doesn't matter what the chant is, it could be free cupcakes for everyone and I wouldn't chant it.

Just not my thing.

J--

The idea of a pregame cheer turns you off? I mean I do pregame cheers all the time for organized sports. It's an excellent tool to cut the tension, build camaraderie and get everyone excited to compete. I think you are doing yourself a big disservice if you exclude yourself from these sorts of things, but you do you I guess.

21 minutes ago, jsalyers said:

Doesn't matter what the chant is, it could be free cupcakes for everyone and I wouldn't chant it.

Just not my thing.

J--

Whoa whoa whoa.......

Are you saying cupcakes aren't your thing and your more of an ice cream or pie person?

Or are you against free desserts? Cuz that's just crazy talk. I'm a firm believer in the "If it's free give me three" ideology, when it comes.to desserts.

But if it's really not your thing, could you at least chant with us so we can all get free cupcakes and then you could give your cupcake to me, or somebody else that wants it?

58 minutes ago, phillos said:

The idea of a pregame cheer turns you off? I mean I do pregame cheers all the time for organized sports. It's an excellent tool to cut the tension, build camaraderie and get everyone excited to compete. I think you are doing yourself a big disservice if you exclude yourself from these sorts of things, but you do you I guess.

It's not for everybody. I know personally, large crowds and noisiness already tend to put me on edge, and chants/cheers like this where people are intentionally trying to be as loud as possible would just make the experience worse; not better. If some people enjoy it and it's not disrupting others, fine. But just understand that those of us who decide that's the best time to go get a soda or something are only missing out on something we don't really want in the first place.

2 hours ago, DarwinsDog said:

He said it made him feel "a tiny bit weird." That's a pretty damning rebuke right there. /s

In which case, he probably should have passed over it altogether ... but it is just so fashionable to have opinions on this sort of thing, I can understand the temptation to tell your readers that you are Sensitive And Progressive whenever possible.

The sheer ignorance of some people is astounding, and while I love SU&SD, the fact that they closed discussion while stickying a post filled with incorrect, and blatantly misleading information really pissed me off. Saying that "banzai" is associated with ww2 suicide bombers is like saying the german language is associated with nazi's..... you're not technically wrong, but you're also not correct. "Banzai" is a shortened form of the phrase Tennōheika Banzai! (天皇陛下万歳, "Long live His Majesty the Emperor") and was introduced from China in the 8th century, as a way of showing respect to the Emperor. (People shouted banzai whenever the Emperor's carriage passed by.) Yes, during WW2 the Japanese military did use the term as a battle cry, just as modern day US military uses "oorah" (or Urah if you're Russian) - but saying it's completely tied to that is woefully ignorant. In modern Japan, the EXACT SAME CHANT HEARD AT L5R EVENTS is used to show celebration or excitement, in place of applause. It's even used today in the Japanese Imperial enthronement ceremony, and when the House of Representatives dissolves. Asking to stop using it would be like asking people to stop speaking german because of Nazi's. It's absurd. Please stop the spread of stupid.

Here's a video of it happening to the current Emperor of Japan:

Sources:

ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_thousand_years#Japan

http://banzaiskydiver.com/banzai/

TL;DR: People who think the Banzai chant is ignorant are themselves being ignorant.

1 hour ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Whoa whoa whoa.......

Are you saying cupcakes aren't your thing and your more of an ice cream or pie person?

Or are you against free desserts? Cuz that's just crazy talk. I'm a firm believer in the "If it's free give me three" ideology, when it comes.to desserts.

But if it's really not your thing, could you at least chant with us so we can all get free cupcakes and then you could give your cupcake to me, or somebody else that wants it?

No chants for me regardless of the reward. However, if you really need that third dessert I'd happily buy you one.

J--

Yes it's a good point that superficial critical remarks about complicated issues often only serve to encourage outrage among ignorant people.

But the banzai issue is the tip of the iceberg. Borderline neurotic anti-Japanese xenophobia is a realtively rare issue in western countries. Hence why that was not the reviewer's concern.

The reviewer seems to be concerned (enough to mention it, not enough to do more than just mention it) about cultural appropriation and "white-washing." The reviewer noted, for example, that the characters featured in the cover art seemed (to him) to look insufficiently Asian. What a can of worms! What would be "sufficiently Asian" in his opinion as a white person? Or is the complaint implying that FFG actually wanted the character to appear less Asian?

These are extremely contentious issues. Just casually dropping them at the end of a game review is irresponsible at best. If you want to bring up complicated issues, at least be willing to actually deal with them. Shut Up and Sit Down ought to Put Up or Shut Up.

2 hours ago, jsalyers said:

No chants for me regardless of the reward.

Interesting.

What are your feelings on "the slow clap"?

I read a take on it saying that it's not insulting at all to the Japanese, but to the East Asian and Southeast Asian countries/peoples that the Japanese Empire conquered leading up to and during WWII.

1 hour ago, Kakita Shiro said:

I read a take on it saying that it's not insulting at all to the Japanese, but to the East Asian and Southeast Asian countries/peoples that the Japanese Empire conquered leading up to and during WWII.

As far as I'm aware, the issue is a lot more complicated than that. Everyone in Asia hates everyone else, but the **** get special mention because they are crap at doing stuff and they are sore losers (a very dangerous combination). Getting insulted only happens if there is a real Japanese within hearing distance, and its only goal is to shame the Japanese dude (so you are getting insulted to insult another).

I have actually seen this in action. It is just as bizarre as you can imagine.

All their review did was convince me that my earlier conclusion that SUSD was not my cup of tea was correct.

18 minutes ago, Joelist said:

All their review did was convince me that my earlier conclusion that SUSD was not my cup of tea was correct.

I thought his review of the game as appropriate. "If you aren't good at thinking, and don't want a challenging game, and prefer a game that lets you wallup your opponent after having a better / luckier turn 1-2 this game IS NOT FOR YOU!" lolkthxbai

20 hours ago, Lysamus said:

It doesn't help that there's been a string of seemingly deliberate exclusions of Asian actors/actresses from modern media (Doctor Strange, Ghost in the Shell movie, Iron Fist, Death Note). This article is no doubt fuel for that particular flame. Again though, if your knee jerk reaction to this point is to immediate dismiss these examples as relevant to an L5R discussion, that is the path to another Mr. Yunioshi.

So I'm guessing we're talking about the Ancient One for Doctor Strange, and Scarlett Johansson in GitS - can't argue with the Ancient One being an odd casting choice. If you had to recast it, is there an actor or actress you'd've gone for instead?

Have read comments indicating that the Major (being an artificial body) wasn't necessarily Japanese, so that's a bit of a wash - and I'm not close enough to the license to know either way. Ditto Death Note - I know nothing about this one, or where the controversy is this time.

The one I'm curious about is Iron Fist - where do you see the deliberate exclusions of Asian actors/actresses here? From what I saw, there were quite a lot of Asian characters in that one.

So one of the things that bugged me about the review was basically it implied in its 'cultural section' that only white male gamers played the game, and that it would be offensive to Asians. Now I cannot speak for anyone save myself, but I can tell yo that my wife (who is a Japanese national) and I play L5R. She views it as a fantasy game, not as some historical thing, **** she often laughs when there are mistakes or errors. I asked her about the Banzai thing and she was confused at why people would be offended. Basically she described Banzai as 'Hooray!' or 'Huzzah!', basically a shout of excitement or support.

I'm usually the first to roll my eyes in the general direction of the perpetually offended. But I gotta say, when reading Appendix B it felt to me like the typical white-guilt move of being offended on behalf of someone else. As a Latino I have to confess that I sometimes feel sorry for you güeros, must get exhausting to constantly be paying for the sins of your fathers.

I gotta say, I don't dislike the author or the article for what it said. The article was very positive and it's obvious the author was looking more for a diversion and less for a challenge, so fair enough I guess.

The comments though, yikes

A pretty funny take on cultural appropriation:

36 minutes ago, Ignithas said:

A pretty funny take on cultural appropriation:

pro link bro, that was great haha

On 9/9/2017 at 10:12 AM, jsalyers said:

I'm new to L5R and very interested in the game. I look forward to playing it many times. That said, the chant at the start of tournaments is something I don't like and I won't participate in.

Doesn't matter what the chant is, it could be free cupcakes for everyone and I wouldn't chant it.

Just not my thing.

J--

As someone who is uncomfortable in large crowds, having everyone aggressively shouting is not very appealing. From my experience this was only done at major events (regional level and up).