I'm a rebel player who doesn't like to use Biggs and/or Lowhhrick. How on earth am I to survive the high PS missiles and torps that everyone seems to be flying these days?

out PS them and Arc dodge

Tank the shots

There's not a great deal more that can be done in my mind. and with arc dodging you now have to be mindful of Bombs/Mines.

If you can mitigate some of the damage (such as Kanan pilot in reducing dice, R4D6 reducing hits etc) then that also helps (as does forcing a bump to remove the action of the bumper)

Unfortunately this does limit your options somewhat and it becomes a game of Rock/Paper/Scissors/Lizard/Spock

5 minutes ago, MatCauthonReborn said:

I'm a rebel player who doesn't like to use Biggs and/or Lowhhrick. How on earth am I to survive the high PS missiles and torps that everyone seems to be flying these days?

Poe with the Black One title at PS10 or PS11 is about your only shot. You can run lower PS for blockers, but if you miss the block, someone is getting smoked. You can also roll with Countermeasures on large base ships. I fly a Rey with Countermeasures and Scavenger Crane (to get the CM back) a fair amount.

I don't like to fly Biggs a whole lot, either, but sometimes you just have to decide to take the best options available. I've gone down the path of trying to "not fly the meta". I don't netlist, but I'm done purposefully avoiding the stuff people consider OP. People say bombing is broken, or TLTs suck, or regen is BS, or Biggs is OP....to **** with it. That's the best stuff Rebels have and if you're not using the best stuff a faction has, you're just handicapping yourself. If someone is coming at you with high PS alpha strikes, they're certainly not handicapping themselves.

14 minutes ago, MatCauthonReborn said:

I'm a rebel player who doesn't like to use Biggs and/or Lowhhrick.

You sir are to be commended.

When I fly my Rebel Squads I to fly free of the mindbender Biggs. Do you like Stresshogs or ARC Braylen? They're the anti-Ace ticket. Or, fly Aces like Poe or slippery ships like A's with snapshot.

Saying that, i use mines a lot and do relatively well but my Meta is generally a lot different to most (rarely see Jumps, sometimes Fen, sometimes Assaj)

Snapshot A wings are also a fun thing if you can guess the approach correctly.

4 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

You sir are to be commended.

When I fly my Rebel Squads I to fly free of the mindbender Biggs. Do you like Stresshogs or ARC Braylen? They're the anti-Ace ticket. Or, fly Aces like Poe or slippery ships like A's with snapshot.

This is what I'm talking about when I say sometimes it's okay to take the best options available. This isn't it. Go ahead and take a Y-Wing or an ARC-170 against a high PS alpha strike, and see your Y-Wing or ARC-170 die before firing. That's not a counter to high PS alpha, that's a primary target for high PS alpha.

I get that people want to fly their own stuff, their own way. It feels really good to get wins against those meta lists with your own creation. It just doesn't happen much, though, not against good players. This isn't a thread about someone trying to beat their brother's janky Quadjumper swarm. They want to know how to counter high PS alpha, which is a very competitive, meta approach...so embrace what's the best counter.

Lowhhrick with Selflessness is probably the most reliable anti-alpha available for Rebels. If you were to run Biggs/Low/Miranda (I run Jess/Low/Miranda), then maybe you can force some of those high PS alpha players to go back to the drawing board.

For mechanical solutions, aside from Biggs and Lowhhrick you've also got Kanan, C3-P0, Jan Ors, Countermeasures, Black One to shed Target Locks or reduce damage taken. But mechanical solutions are situational.

What you need to look at are methods of flying to counter the threat. @taulover55 already suggested out-PSing them (not really going to work that well when the Imperial pilots can be PS11) and arc-dodging (ditto). Taking it on the chin is possible with something like a Thug Life Y-Wing list, but with pretty much anything non-generic usually your opponent can single out a priority target and try to delete it in the first round of engagement.

So what to do? The answer's simple: Block.

Low(er) PS ships have almost always relied on blocking to help mitigate the advantages higher PS ships have. This really is no different - especially when your opponent needs target locks. Learn the rule of 11, slow roll until you know engagement is going to happen, then race into your opponent's face.

Even if you can't block your opponent, at least try to get into range one in the initial engagement. The missles are generally range 2-3, so getting into close range ASAP will help. Your weapons should be just as potent at this range, and if you can get a block in then you should have modifiers while at least one of your opponent's ships will not.

Go to PS 12...

(100)

Green Squadron Pilot (25) - A-Wing
Deadeye (1), Cruise Missiles (3), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Guidance Chips (0), Swarm Tactics (2)

Green Squadron Pilot (25) - A-Wing
Deadeye (1), Cruise Missiles (3), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Guidance Chips (0), Swarm Tactics (2)

Green Squadron Pilot (25) - A-Wing
Deadeye (1), Cruise Missiles (3), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Guidance Chips (0), Swarm Tactics (2)

Roark Garnet (25) - HWK-290
Twin Laser Turret (6), "Chopper" (0)

What do you consider an Alpha strike?

What are you flying?

Anything less than 3, five dice cruise shots in one round really isnt "alpha" its more like "beta". Still hurts but your opponent wasting points and telegraphing their approach while using hard mode to do an attack HLC dash, Finn, Norra, Wulff, Han, Kanan, etc can do on any turn with their eyes closed.

Often they will be using guidance chips to which leaves them super vulnerable in general especially out of Arc.

Manage range, use Ion, use multiple ships, use Potensity, use bumps, bomb control movement, "dont" fly away, do dodge arcs, do use rocks to block their approach, use black one, use countermeasures, use rigged cargo, did i mention use Ion.

But yea what do you like to fly so we can be more specifically helpful.

15 minutes ago, gennataos said:

This is what I'm talking about when I say sometimes it's okay to take the best options available. This isn't it. Go ahead and take a Y-Wing or an ARC-170 against a high PS alpha strike, and see your Y-Wing or ARC-170 die before firing.

Stress or Bombs is the way against high PS Aces, so I'll disagree with your assertion.

Interestingly enough, it's the Biggs Lowhhrick NPE that got the whole missle alpha on high PS thing started. It's Biggs designer's fault.

10 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Stress or Bombs is the way against high PS Aces, so I'll disagree with your assertion.

I don't disagree that stress or bombs are the way to deal with aces, I just disagree that a traditional Rebel stress-dealer would survive long enough to deal any meaningful stress. Give me Low w/Tactician and Miranda in a list and you've got stress and bombs plus a great way to mitigate that alpha strike.

13 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I don't disagree that stress or bombs are the way to deal with aces, I just disagree that a traditional Rebel stress-dealer would survive long enough to deal any meaningful stress. Give me Low w/Tactician and Miranda in a list and you've got stress and bombs plus a great way to mitigate that alpha strike.

Maybe they will not hold against JK5Ks alpha strikes, but I kinda am assuming the OP stated it was high PS Imperials with cruise missiles he had issues with (maybe I'm wrong, IDK); 1 missile each, right? So, set up rocks, ships, approach right and stress; you might take a hit, but Rebs have the shield and hull to accommodate it ?

1 minute ago, clanofwolves said:

Maybe they will not hold against JK5Ks alpha strikes, but the OP stated it was high PS Imperials he had issues with; 1 missile each, right? So, set up rocks, ships, approach right and stress; you might take a hit, but Rebs have the shield and hull to accommodate it ?

OP actually didn't state whether it was Imperial or Scum. Heck, I even have a high PS Rebel alpha list, but I doubt they're talking about Rebels.

I guess we'll just disagree. Maybe you've never seen 8+ damage dealt against a 1-agility ship on an alpha strike.

I was flying Dash and Corran versus a Dengar that had Plasma torps, K4 and Expertise and Nym with a Cruise missile and Guidance chips. When my opponent focussed fire on Dash he pretty much died in a turn - crit dependent (that's with focus tokens and obstacle between Dash and the missiles/torps). If he didn't die that turn, he died the next. I can only imagine an Imperial strike hits harder. I know turn 0 needs to be improved on (on my part) but it seems like an impossible task to avoid high PS re-positioners that can hit that reliably...

It's sad the game even needed alpha strike options, it should be all about flying....

1 minute ago, clanofwolves said:

It's sad the game even needed alpha strike options, it should be all about flying....

ummmm, solid and unpredictable flying (to avoid arcs/kill ranges) IS a counter to alpha strikes

I like the idea of VI poe or VI wedge with bb8 and black one.

That sheds one target lock.

Combine this with a stress hog or braylen. Both are tanky enough to survive a missile and one TL should be gone by black one.

Finally, something with additional punch like jess pava.

Bid for the win.

After the first round of shooting you should stll have all your guns pointing at a stressed imp ace.

The list:

38 minutes ago, MatCauthonReborn said:

I was flying Dash and Corran versus a Dengar that had Plasma torps, K4 and Expertise and Nym with a Cruise missile and Guidance chips. When my opponent focussed fire on Dash he pretty much died in a turn - crit dependent (that's with focus tokens and obstacle between Dash and the missiles/torps). If he didn't die that turn, he died the next. I can only imagine an Imperial strike hits harder. I know turn 0 needs to be improved on (on my part) but it seems like an impossible task to avoid high PS re-positioners that can hit that reliably...

Things to consider:

• Use Intensity Poe with Black One
• Use Counter Measures
• Use Rigged Cargo Shoots
• Use Slam
• Use wing-men for Dash that can throw Ion or drop Bombs to board control
• Use Rocks to your advantage........your Dash
• Dash is kinda a monster already, he throws 4 dice at range 2-3 out of arc, hyper mobile, can PTL with an entire green dial with Kanan, etc.
  • His 2 green dice, donut hole, and pt cost are his only real weaknesses....if he didn't have at least the donut limitation he would be a Jumpmaster.
• Dash runs away.
  • That makes him predictable for opponents with Cruise shots
  • Use that "expectation" to your advantage and fly in and around rocks as much as possible
• The imperial strike is kinda awesome to see work but its a rare beast
  • Its very difficult to get all 3 cruise missiles off in one turn, let alone with 5 dice that actually land
  • It usually means they brought a "bad" version of QD and Vader with guidance chips instead of LWF and Engine Upgrade and with VI instead of something more useful
  • Keep in mind your dash is throwing 4 dice most turns outside of arc, almost always Focus/TL modified, without even having to rely on ordinance or target locks
  • Most of the time players who run Imperial Alpha or Cruise in general, screw up and only throw 4 dice at you which is a waste of points and telegraphs moves.
  • Still hurts but its not really any worse than what Dash is doing to them.
• Join the Imperials and embrace the arc dependent dark side

28 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

It's sad the game even needed alpha strike options, it should be all about flying....

We, the community, kept asking for improvements to ordnance. So were pretty much to blame. It's the "bigger, faster, stronger" downside of "be careful of what you wish for".

34 minutes ago, MatCauthonReborn said:

I was flying Dash and Corran versus a Dengar that had Plasma torps, K4 and Expertise and Nym with a Cruise missile and Guidance chips. When my opponent focussed fire on Dash he pretty much died in a turn - crit dependent (that's with focus tokens and obstacle between Dash and the missiles/torps). If he didn't die that turn, he died the next. I can only imagine an Imperial strike hits harder. I know turn 0 needs to be improved on (on my part) but it seems like an impossible task to avoid high PS re-positioners that can hit that reliably...

Okay, then you were facing a high-end meta list. Dash/Corran isn't likely to win that match-up. It's like I said before, they're not hold back on what they're bringing to the table, so you shouldn't hold back on what you bring.

32 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

ummmm, solid and unpredictable flying (to avoid arcs/kill ranges) IS a counter to alpha strikes

Not always possible if you're ot PS'd.

8 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Not always possible if you're ot PS'd.

Didn't say it was a hard counter........ There are lists that will struggle, and the more ships on the table the better your odds (as long as they all don't have to stay at range 1 of each other for the list to work ).

Edit: It also makes for a long, tense game so if that isn't your cup of tea...... run ultra ps

6 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Not always possible if you're ot PS'd.

Nor should it be. But cruise missiles aren't that hard to predict and end up in r1 if you move first.

7 minutes ago, hawk32 said:

Nor should it be. But cruise missiles aren't that hard to predict and end up in r1 if you move first.

Against a player with patience it becomes more difficult. A lot of players using high PS arc dodgers like to close quickly and it is possible to get inside of R1 to avoid that missile strike and bump. Lately I've faced a couple of players using completely different tactics. Jockeying for better position rather than using the rush to engage.

1 minute ago, Stoneface said:

Against a player with patience it becomes more difficult. A lot of players using high PS arc dodgers like to close quickly and it is possible to get inside of R1 to avoid that missile strike and bump. Lately I've faced a couple of players using completely different tactics. Jockeying for better position rather than using the rush to engage.

At least if they get the 5 dice cruise off it is rewarding skill. How many cruise missiles made t16 at nova (actual question)?