1 minute ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Well that's a bit aggressive - and wrong.
Nym is very forgiving and has more health than he should for your theory. He can tank an entire alpha 3-ship strike and realistically survive. He's also an ace who can arc-dodge, so he doesn't even need to tank your alpha - but he can. Then he dodges away, knife-fights, TLT's and/or bombs the ish out of you while you scramble to put damage onto him and his wingmate(s).

Sure - he's beatable, but saying it's completely up to the players is dead wrong.

Surviving 3 ships of alpha is pretty unrealistic. Even assuming it's 4 die non-plasmas, he'll likely be taking 3x4 hits, he has to roll perfect evades, or he dies. 5-dice ones or plasma torps make it even less likely. Surviving two thirds of one though is almost certain.

Dominating 4 Nationals and counting! I'm willing to bet Nym dominates every big event up to and including Worlds. He's just too good. It's like he's in his own game, with his own rules.

...

8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Surviving 3 ships of alpha is pretty unrealistic. Even assuming it's 4 die non-plasmas, he'll likely be taking 3x4 hits, he has to roll perfect evades, or he dies. 5-dice ones or plasma torps make it even less likely. Surviving two thirds of one though is almost certain.

I've done it.. And I'd be willing to be bet others have, too. To boot, I survived a PS 11 Imp alpha strike. It wasn't pretty but it's realistic.
The other point is he's a PS 10 with serious positioning ability. He can control range and punish you for it.

4 minutes ago, HammerOfReason said:

And you can add a specialist into your squad to specifically combat Nym.

Do you want another fat han? Because that's how you get another Fat Han.

4 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

I survived a PS 11 Imp alpha strike.

Can we get that on a t-shirt?

Just now, FTS Gecko said:

Can we get that on a t-shirt?

can we discuss how everyone feels about Imperials becoming the new munitions (missiles) faction?
I don't hate it but ... I miss the aces.

6 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

I've done it.. And I'd be willing to be bet others have, too. To boot, I survived a PS 11 Imp alpha strike. It wasn't pretty but it's realistic.
The other point is he's a PS 10 with serious positioning ability. He can control range and punish you for it.

You surivived being tagged with all 3 missiles/torps? Or you were out of range/arc of one of them?

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

You surivived being tagged with all 3 missiles/torps? Or you were out of range/arc of one of them?

Survived with 2 hull. Next few rounds I was able to put serious damage into the Imps with Nym's Bomblets, cause now we were close, and Miranda swept up the rest.

1 minute ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

can we discuss how everyone feels about Imperials becoming the new munitions (missiles) faction?
I don't hate it but ... I miss the aces.

If any faction should be about overwhelming firepower then I'm happiest it's in Imperials.

However that's caveated by the fact that I utterly deplore that any list has munitions as its dedicated strategy, rather than as a compliment to a strategy.

Just now, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Survived with 2 hull. Next few rounds I was able to put serious damage into the Imps with Nym's Bomblets, cause now we were close, and Miranda swept up the rest.

You got incredibly lucky then.

Good for you I guess?

2 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

If any faction should be about overwhelming firepower then I'm happiest it's in Imperials.

Indeed.

Overwhelming firepower and overwhelming numbers!

8 hours ago, citruscannon said:

Well then... I mean, I've understood and accepted the fact that Nym is dangerous, but in all my matches I've yet to see it. Every time I've seen Nym across the board with a bomblet generator I've just pointed at him as though he were an expensive Biggs and burned him down first - typically in a round or two of concentrated fire from four ships. That map is just frightening. There's some player skill in understanding the initial approach (generally the failure of my opponents) and in judging distances but it looks to be a pretty terrifying in the hands of anybody who figures that out.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

You got incredibly lucky then.

Good for you I guess?

Thanks I guess?

Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

If any faction should be about overwhelming firepower then I'm happiest it's in Imperials.

However that's caveated by the fact that I utterly deplore that any list has munitions as its dedicated strategy, rather than as a compliment to a strategy.

After Vader let's off his Cruise Missiles, he's still Vader (usually without Engine), and Quickdraw is still a double-tap b*tch to deal with (usually without LWF) -- so if you can survive after the salvo, you have some solid pieces.. Unfortunately it's never that clean on the table.

5 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Well then... I mean, I've understood and accepted the fact that Nym is dangerous, but in all my matches I've yet to see it. Every time I've seen Nym across the board with a bomblet generator I've just pointed at him as though he were an expensive Biggs and burned him down first - typically in a round or two of concentrated fire from four ships. That map is just frightening. There's some player skill in understanding the initial approach (generally the failure of my opponents) and in judging distances but it looks to be a pretty terrifying in the hands of anybody who figures that out.

And remember, Rebel Nym can hold one of those and use the same map to drop a second Bomblet for double the pleasure and pain.

Please excuse my ignorance, I haven't played since Nym was released (I know! I KNOW).

Can Nym still drop bombs after movement if he bumps? (I'm still trying to wrap my head around how he's dropping bombs after completing his movement, unless they're the bombs that begin "Action:"...)

It seems to me that since he has such flexibility in dropping bombs, the best way to break him would be no different than breaking a Dash-Outrider-EU-PTL-KyleKatarn. You bump into him and stop his freedom of maneuvering. Granted, it's harder to do with Adv Sens, so you need a cheapo Z-95 or TIE Fighter to throw into his face at Range 1 and another at Range 3 of his face (and accept that they'll probably eat a damage apiece), and keep your heavy-hitter at Range 3 of the situation. Although you'd need to find some way to keep Nym from barrel-rolling and avoiding your blockade that way--so you have to lure him into the asteroid field and use it to your advantage, or lay out your own bombs. A skilled Nym player though should be able to avoid being funneled into an asteroid field, though, and if they're mapping a minefield it looks like they'll be able to set their own terms of use.

Maybe what we need to see here is the return of the two YT-1300 meta. They can tank the bombs and dish out even more damage onto Nym if you can keep both of them in range of him.

41 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Well that's a bit aggressive - and wrong.
Nym is very forgiving and has more health than he should for your theory. He can tank an entire alpha 3-ship strike and realistically survive. He's also an ace who can arc-dodge, so he doesn't even need to tank your alpha - but he can. Then he dodges away, knife-fights, TLT's and/or bombs the ish out of you while you scramble to put damage onto him and his wingmate(s).

I don't think it is all that aggressive or wrong. I just think you and everyone who complains about him is unwilling or unable to do what it takes to handle him. You're one of these, "I want to fly the ships I want to fly in the manner I want to fly them!" guys, then complain when that doesn't work against ship/list X. You don't want to adopt your approach to start using whatever will counter Nym, you'd rather complain about him. There's a fair amount of your type on the forums.

1 minute ago, Ziusdra said:

Please excuse my ignorance, I haven't played since Nym was released (I know! I KNOW).

Can Nym still drop bombs after movement if he bumps? (I'm still trying to wrap my head around how he's dropping bombs after completing his movement, unless they're the bombs that begin "Action:"...)

It seems to me that since he has such flexibility in dropping bombs, the best way to break him would be no different than breaking a Dash-Outrider-EU-PTL-KyleKatarn. You bump into him and stop his freedom of maneuvering. Granted, it's harder to do with Adv Sens, so you need a cheapo Z-95 or TIE Fighter to throw into his face at Range 1 and another at Range 3 of his face (and accept that they'll probably eat a damage apiece), and keep your heavy-hitter at Range 3 of the situation. Although you'd need to find some way to keep Nym from barrel-rolling and avoiding your blockade that way--so you have to lure him into the asteroid field and use it to your advantage, or lay out your own bombs. A skilled Nym player though should be able to avoid being funneled into an asteroid field, though, and if they're mapping a minefield it looks like they'll be able to set their own terms of use.

Maybe what we need to see here is the return of the two YT-1300 meta. They can tank the bombs and dish out even more damage onto Nym if you can keep both of them in range of him.

The answer is yes: he can ALWAYS drop his bomblets. If he bumps, still gets to drop. If he lands on an asteroid, still gets to drop. If he's Ion'd (despite what people think), he still gets to drop. If he's stressed, he still gets to drop. Nym is basically immune to bad flying.

2 minutes ago, Ziusdra said:

Please excuse my ignorance, I haven't played since Nym was released (I know! I KNOW).

Can Nym still drop bombs after movement if he bumps? (I'm still trying to wrap my head around how he's dropping bombs after completing his movement, unless they're the bombs that begin "Action:"...)

It seems to me that since he has such flexibility in dropping bombs, the best way to break him would be no different than breaking a Dash-Outrider-EU-PTL-KyleKatarn. You bump into him and stop his freedom of maneuvering. Granted, it's harder to do with Adv Sens, so you need a cheapo Z-95 or TIE Fighter to throw into his face at Range 1 and another at Range 3 of his face (and accept that they'll probably eat a damage apiece), and keep your heavy-hitter at Range 3 of the situation. Although you'd need to find some way to keep Nym from barrel-rolling and avoiding your blockade that way--so you have to lure him into the asteroid field and use it to your advantage, or lay out your own bombs. A skilled Nym player though should be able to avoid being funneled into an asteroid field, though, and if they're mapping a minefield it looks like they'll be able to set their own terms of use.

Maybe what we need to see here is the return of the two YT-1300 meta. They can tank the bombs and dish out even more damage onto Nym if you can keep both of them in range of him.

Yes, if he bumps there's still a bomb.

Additionally, because of advanced sensors, you need to block both barrel rolls, all three boosts, and the actual maneuver. A lot of the problem here is that people are playing against nym players that don't see the matrix yet, so as someone said earlier "I can just point at Nym and shoot them" which isn't a real response against an extremely good nym - if you can shoot nym, nym is bombing you.

My only feedback on Nym is I've played 7 games with a squad that is "Nym & Random **** I'm Playing Badly" and I won 100% of those games despite throwing his wingman away a lot of the time. Nym is crazy crazy crazy good once you get him into position.

"Genius" salvaged astro is how he drops the bombs after moving, for the record.

9 hours ago, citruscannon said:

I just put together an example very quickly. It's not perfect, but it illustrates the point.

PS10 Nym with Adv. Sensors, EU, and bomblets.
Nym sets a straight 3 no matter what.

PS9 Soontir Fel, for example, starting in the top left hand corner.

Fel, or any interceptor for that matter whatsoever, despite access to PTL boost and barrel rolls, is denied any offensive move towards Nym, as Nym may readjust his flight pattern accordingly to drop a bomb. I've shown some example positions of aggressive maneuvers against nym.

Doesn't matter if you end up out of arc, even just barely. There is no getting away from Nym's move, unless you run away from the fight. This makes the ONLY play that is safe against a bomb a hard turn away from nym, who is now firing into the backside of the interceptor.
There is no block play, no way to mitigate this, beyond catching nym from multiple angles simultaneously. But again, at ps10, this is very difficult to do. This is why people find this frustrating.

Pulling away from an engagement is normal, but having no recourse but to do so every time your enemy gets even close to you is really annoying.

the single reason this is disliked: There is no decision making process to be thwarted. I wouldn't mind in the slightest if nym had options to a million bomb positions, but had to guess correctly for it to be effective. The issue however is that there is no guesswork required here. You wait until the opponent moves, then, with full knowledge of what to do, slot in the appropriate sequence of actions and drop a bomb on them with no damage to yourself.

Which is exactly how bombs work. You don't need to be accurate...just close.

Quite a realistic game mechanic IMHO.

The range on them isn't the issue. It's the range of places that range can be put and the lack of guessing about which one you should use.

Not to mention that the closeness of the bomb doesn't affect him...

13 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I don't think it is all that aggressive or wrong. I just think you and everyone who complains about him is unwilling or unable to do what it takes to handle him. You're one of these, "I want to fly the ships I want to fly in the manner I want to fly them!" guys, then complain when that doesn't work against ship/list X. You don't want to adopt your approach to start using whatever will counter Nym, you'd rather complain about him. There's a fair amount of your type on the forums.

You're wrong again!
I flew Nym and Miranda at NOVA and, while I didn't make day two, faced multiple Nyms/other meta lists and won my fair share.

I understand Nym. I have played 20+ games with him. Just because I complain about him doesn't mean anything you say is true.
Let's see if you can make it thrice in one thread...

Just want to throw this out there, even though it's already been said. People say you can beat Nym. This is true. People say you can even beat him and his squadmates, which is harder, but also true. The thing is, people used to say this about the pre-nerf TIE phantom. Whether it's beatable or not has no bearing on whether or not it's broken. It's about making an enjoyable game for both parties. If he takes away any that much decision making, he's crippling the game, and probably needs to be addressed.

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

I don't think it is all that aggressive or wrong. I just think you and everyone who complains about him is unwilling or unable to do what it takes to handle him. You're one of these, "I want to fly the ships I want to fly in the manner I want to fly them!" guys, then complain when that doesn't work against ship/list X. You don't want to adopt your approach to start using whatever will counter Nym, you'd rather complain about him. There's a fair amount of your type on the forums.

Now hang on there. Isn't this what people said about TIE phantoms? Do you know what happened when people adapted their squads? The PS wars and the 2-squad meta happened: you either had fat turrets or a TIE phantom of your own (or both) or else you lost. Yes, the phantom player could make a mistake. Yes, the TIE swarm could block and kill the darn thing. But ultimately, the kind of supreme knowledge granted by a high-PS decloak completely skewed the game, and needed to be addressed. And so it was.

I suspect that many who have no problem with Nym just happened to be flying good anti-Nym squads serendipitously. Maybe you tweaked a thing to make it really good. But if 17 different people all with different squads have trouble with this bomber, maybe it's indicative that there is a problem. After all, we can't all adopt the same squad or we'd devolve into something no better than that previous meta.

Then again, maybe that's what we should do in order to grab the developers' attention.