^ this guy gets it...

Edit: **** you new page...

25 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

You're wrong again!
I flew Nym and Miranda at NOVA and, while I didn't make day two, faced multiple Nyms/other meta lists and won my fair share.

I understand Nym. I have played 20+ games with him. Just because I complain about him doesn't mean anything you say is true.
Let's see if you can make it thrice in one thread...

You got me there. I'll not concede the first "wrong", though. What is a fair share?

23 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Just want to throw this out there, even though it's already been said. People say you can beat Nym. This is true. People say you can even beat him andhis squadmates, which is harder, but also true. The thing is, people used to say this about the pre-nerf TIE phantom. Whether it's beatable or not has no bearing on whether or not it's broken. It's about making an enjoyable game for both parties. If he takes away any decision making, he's crippling the game, and probably needs to be addressed.

Now hang on there. Isn't this what people said about TIE phantoms? Do you know what happened when people adapted their squads? The PS wars and the 2-squad meta happened: you either had fat turrets or a TIE phantom of your own (or both) or else you lost. Yes, the phantom player could make a mistake. Yes, the TIE swarm could block and kill the darn thing. But ultimately, the kind of supreme knowledge granted by a high-PS decloak completely skewed the game, and needed to be addressed. And so it was.

I suspect that many who have no problem with Nym just happened to be flying good anti-Nym squads serendipitously. Maybe you tweaked a thing to make it really good. But if 17 different people all with different squads have trouble with this bomber, maybe it's indicative that there is a problem. After all, we can't all adopt the same squad or we'd devolve into something no better than that previous meta.

Then again, maybe that's what we should do in order to grab the developers' attention.

I honestly don't care. If I see something prevalent which I can't beat, I try to figure out how to beat it. That's it. If I figure it out, then I play that new list when I want to be competitive. Otherwise I try out other stuff.

You know what, never mind. It's just another pointless internet argument which is going to lead nowhere. I'm just disappointed that I keep engaging in them.

Just now, gennataos said:

You know what, never mind. It's just another pointless internet argument which is going to lead nowhere. I'm just disappointed that I keep engaging in them.

Me too. Sorry for egging you on.

5 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Me too. Sorry for egging you on.

You didn't egg me on any more that I did you. Complaining about complaints just makes me another complainer.

This kind of stuff really just comes down to personal preference. There's no objectively right or wrong answers to most of the stuff we go on about. For every person who says something is broken, there's another which says it isn't...then there are thousands who don't care what either one of those folks said.

14 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I honestly don't care. If I see something prevalent which I can't beat, I try to figure out how to beat it. That's it. If I figure it out, then I play that new list when I want to be competitive. Otherwise I try out other stuff.

I can respect that. It's not our job to design the game, it's our job to play it. If going competitive, I guess you do what you have to in order to beat Nym. If casual, you could ask your opponent kindly if they would play something else after they've bombed your face in if you really can't stand Nym.

15 minutes ago, gennataos said:

You know what, never mind. It's just another pointless internet argument which is going to lead nowhere. I'm just disappointed that I keep engaging in them.

13 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Me too. Sorry for egging you on.

See now this is where i have a hard time with meta arguments in general (and apologies to both of you, you just happened to be a convienient example).

The whole idea of NPE that gets thrown around lately and what it takes to make that situation is completely perception based. As is the idea of balance. We had people here screaming for nerfs based on 2 games and little after thought. Top of the meta to a degree is a self forfilling prophecy because of how much it gets used at all levels, and how willing people are to fly counter/unorthodox lists.

Add to that it's the internet and how people get easily caught in go nowhere arguments combined with various levels of game and mechanic comprehension and it really is a case of how can we sort it rationally?

51 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

See now this is where i have a hard time with meta arguments in general (and apologies to both of you, you just happened to be a convienient example).

The whole idea of NPE that gets thrown around lately and what it takes to make that situation is completely perception based. As is the idea of balance. We had people here screaming for nerfs based on 2 games and little after thought. Top of the meta to a degree is a self forfilling prophecy because of how much it gets used at all levels, and how willing people are to fly counter/unorthodox lists.

Add to that it's the internet and how people get easily caught in go nowhere arguments combined with various levels of game and mechanic comprehension and it really is a case of how can we sort it rationally?

I think the real argument, which never gets discussed, is that people who play competitively don't like seeing the same things over and over because they're hard and out-right unbalanced - and those who wish to get into competitive play don't want to play those same lists so they lose and complain about it. But to be successful in competitive play you must play with the meta in mind - and a lot of times that means playing meta lists/archetypes. And there's no changing that - there will always be an optimum build or ship and that may well be an NPE.

If you play competitively, you must accept the meta but should complain about it. If you want to play competitively, accept that you will complain, but do it intelligently. If you don't play competitively, good for you - this game is so gatdamn fun and that's what got us all into it.

13 hours ago, citruscannon said:

Now there is something incredibly wrong about this picture. Fel's 2-turns are blocked by asteroids. That is a mistake from last turn, a big one. If that would not be the case he would be free to leave the blast areas with both turns, he could as well clear the area with a 5 straight too, which is not an option because he already has stress and lastly, at least to me it looks like he would be clear as well if he does a 4 straight + boost and barrel roll. Either way, the save option here would be to invite Nymm to chase soontir, while the rest rest of your ships come in from the sides to him.

The picture illustrates very well why Nymm is awesome, but starts in a very bad position for Soontir.

Now at the other hand the second one shows perfectly fine how unapproachable Nymm is. Getting him from behind is nearly impossible, from the front is super risky (you need to plan your exit in the next turn already) and damage from the sides is possible but rather limited as well. You you can't get any closer than R3 without taking a huge bomb risk.
.

The more I look at these graphics, the more I am looking forward to play more against Nym. He is really a tricky little bomber to approach. No wonder Eide paired him with Corran, Corran is one of the few ships which can position well against this while at the same time regenerating an occasional hit taken in a damage trade. BTW this shows as well that he doesn't take away decision making, but limits to amount of GOOD decisions severely. What he does achieve is taking away agenda. A lot of squads want to get close, but that is suicidal against Nym. If you try your luck at range 1, you will eat bombs, you will not get out unharmed and very often you will not even get your shot. Taking away player agenda, destroying other players plans before the game even starts is one of the key elements which leads to frustration with many people.

I still can't wait to play more against Nymm, but I always loved to fly against Imperial Arc Dodging Aces as well and Nym brings some of those elements back, but no instead with counter damage instead his own damage avoidance.

3 hours ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

he still gets to drop. Nym is basically immune to bad flying.

If he ends his movement in Range 2 to a swarm, he is still dead. So I would not say immune to bad flying, but is indeed very flexible.

18 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

If he ends his movement in Range 2 to a swarm, he is still dead. So I would not say immune to bad flying, but is indeed very flexible.

If.

And to be fair, this is true of almost anything except maybe Dengar.

No the 2 turns aren't both blocked, the soontir in the first picture can (and does) do a 2 left turn, it just puts him away from the action. It could do a 2 right turn without the asteroid on the top left (it actually looks like it could almost just fit now, and then BR/boost away). Any aggressive move towards Nym is insta-bomb time. Starting unstressed doesn't change how aggressive moves to get an arc on Nym all end in bombs, the only options that mostly just clear bomb range are pure retreating/disengaging moves.

The problem that picture illustrates is that Nym moves with perfect knowledge and can bomb soontir on every stress clearing move except one Soontir does that isn't fully running away from the engagement.

2 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

The problem that picture illustrates is that Nym moves with perfect knowledge and can bomb soontir on every stress clearing move Soontir does that isn't fully running away from the engagement.

But that is nothing special about Nym, three X-Wings doing a 1-forward would achieve about the same, no need for perfect knowledge in that case. ;-)
The new thing about Nymm is that the approach from behind very unsafe as well, so you can't chase too fast or end up eating a bomb.

3 x wings can't autodamage Soontir at all, and from that position he could probably avoid two of them, because he'd most likely be moving last.

Also, 3 x wings are at least 3/4 of a list. Nym is less than half.

I played the other night, and used Scum Nym w/Genius, Bomblet Gen, Auto Blaster Turret & AccCor. After my two Y-Wings were taken out, it came down to my Nym versus Scum Kath, Guri, and a Z95. I won, all because of Nym.

3 X-Wings naked are also minimum 63 points, more than Nym fully loaded, and I'd much rather joust them as Soontir than Nym since I can arc dodge probably at least 1, maybe 2, and could at least have green dice and autothrusters or tokens to defend against the onslaught. As opposed to unavoidable Nym bomb damage. Granted, Nym is the least of soontir's worries, Miranda Adv SLAM is as bad, or 4-5 dice fully modded shots from a variety of sources.