I hear a bunch of grousing about bombs. As someone who used them on my ships for a long time I have to say many People I played against had no idea how to fly to counter to them. Throwing a Conner net pie into your ace face after it so cleverly followed my boat of a K-Wing was my greatest joy. I didn't even need advanced slam!

So please show me how unavoidable bombs are and then I can start to empathize with y'all.

With Advance Sensor nym, if you end movement within range 2 of nym's starting position, nym can bomblet you. With geinus, if you are within range 1 of where nym ends up, he can bomblet you. With engine upgrade and Advance sensor, he could be ending up in 3 completely differet places, based on where you chose to go, and can bomb you while bumped. And that's not even getting into Autoblaster or TLT damage.

Miranda isnt quite that flexible, but the Warden being able to kill ships in the activation phase with advance slam by flying over them (with full knowlege of their location) and dropping a sabine-boosted Cluster bomb on top of them was the problem.

I know I saw a bombing pattern image of all where Nym and K-Wimgs can drop bombs. Anybody know where they are?

@Brunas

I just put together an example very quickly. It's not perfect, but it illustrates the point.

PS10 Nym with Adv. Sensors, EU, and bomblets.
Nym sets a straight 3 no matter what.

PS9 Soontir Fel, for example, starting in the top left hand corner.

Fel, or any interceptor for that matter whatsoever, despite access to PTL boost and barrel rolls, is denied any offensive move towards Nym, as Nym may readjust his flight pattern accordingly to drop a bomb. I've shown some example positions of aggressive maneuvers against nym.

Doesn't matter if you end up out of arc, even just barely. There is no getting away from Nym's move, unless you run away from the fight. This makes the ONLY play that is safe against a bomb a hard turn away from nym, who is now firing into the backside of the interceptor.
There is no block play, no way to mitigate this, beyond catching nym from multiple angles simultaneously. But again, at ps10, this is very difficult to do. This is why people find this frustrating.

Pulling away from an engagement is normal, but having no recourse but to do so every time your enemy gets even close to you is really annoying.

the single reason this is disliked: There is no decision making process to be thwarted. I wouldn't mind in the slightest if nym had options to a million bomb positions, but had to guess correctly for it to be effective. The issue however is that there is no guesswork required here. You wait until the opponent moves, then, with full knowledge of what to do, slot in the appropriate sequence of actions and drop a bomb on them with no damage to yourself.

Ah ha! Here's the one for typical Nym.

That one also has the Miranda Cluster Mines map too, which is also a scary amount of bombs but not quite as large an area of effect as Nym.

4 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

That one also has the Miranda Cluster Mines map too, which is also a scary amount of bombs but not quite as large an area of effect as Nym.

Good eye! I was trying to find it else where.

@TylerTT Here's a look at Miranda with Advanced Slam and Cluster Mines.

10 minutes ago, citruscannon said:

I just put together an example very quickly. It's not perfect, but it illustrates the point.

PS10 Nym with Adv. Sensors, EU, and bomblets.
Nym sets a straight 3 no matter what.

PS9 Soontir Fel, for example, starting in the top left hand corner.

Fel, or any interceptor for that matter whatsoever, despite access to PTL boost and barrel rolls, is denied any offensive move towards Nym, as Nym may readjust his flight pattern accordingly to drop a bomb. I've shown some example positions of aggressive maneuvers against nym.

Doesn't matter if you end up out of arc, even just barely. There is no getting away from Nym's move, unless you run away from the fight. This makes the ONLY play that is safe against a bomb a hard turn away from nym, who is now firing into the backside of the interceptor.
There is no block play, no way to mitigate this, beyond catching nym from multiple angles simultaneously. But again, at ps10, this is very difficult to do. This is why people find this frustrating.

Pulling away from an engagement is normal, but having no recourse but to do so every time your enemy gets even close to you is really annoying.

the single reason this is disliked: There is no decision making process to be thwarted. I wouldn't mind in the slightest if nym had options to a million bomb positions, but had to guess correctly for it to be effective. The issue however is that there is no guesswork required here. You wait until the opponent moves, then, with full knowledge of what to do, slot in the appropriate sequence of actions and drop a bomb on them with no damage to yourself.

Sorry; I'm having a case of the dumbs. How is the highest bomb on that pic being released?

Just now, Dr Zoidberg said:

Sorry; I'm having a case of the dumbs. How is the highest bomb on that pic being released?

adv. sensor boost, straight 3, drop bomb.

Here's the complete map of No-decision-making-required bombs that nym can drop on a straight 3 for example. It's a complete r1-2 exclusion zone pretty much. So, it really steals away the bread and butter of how ships normally take down agility 1 ships.

Boost, then a straight would be my guess, genius after the move, or the other way around, straight then boost.

Wow! That's crazy! Now I see the problem.

This is like the old phantom. It removes guessing and prediction from the game.

nvm, brain fade

1 hour ago, citruscannon said:

adv. sensor boost, straight 3, drop bomb.

Here's the complete map of No-decision-making-required bombs that nym can drop on a straight 3 for example. It's a complete r1-2 exclusion zone pretty much. So, it really steals away the bread and butter of how ships normally take down agility 1 ships.

That map doesn't show adv sensor bank boost/3 straight btw, although i don't think it changes much, other than the final position of nym

3 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

That map doesn't show adv sensor bank boost/3 straight btw, although i don't think it changes much, other than the final position of nym

yep, it does, the tilted bombs in the top left and right corners

12 minutes ago, citruscannon said:

yep, it does, the tilted bombs in the top left and right corners

You're right, i confused it with the 3 straight bank boost, which should add to the top of the cloud because the angled drop places it above the straight boost by nearly a full bomb template (as in what you place on the table, not the r1)

You forgot the part where Nym can drop bombs when Ionized, due to Genius. Granted, the bomb area is small than the 3 straight, but he ignores even that mechanic.

Opinion: Nym in his current incarnation is downright broken and takes very little skill to use effectively. All your choices revolve around "do I want to bomb/blast this guy, or that guy?".

8 hours ago, MegaSilver said:

@Brunas

Looks like everyone has caught on, with even better maps than mine

3 hours ago, Keffisch said:

Opinion: Nym in his current incarnation is downright broken and takes very little skill to use effectively. All your choices revolve around "do I want to bomb/blast this guy, or that guy?".

I've flown against Nym plenty and flown him myself even more. It doesn't take much skill to get off a bomb or two and take some easy shots. It takes a fair amount of skill to keep him alive for any length of time.

7 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I've flown against Nym plenty and flown him myself even more. It doesn't take much skill to get off a bomb or two and take some easy shots. It takes a fair amount of skill to keep him alive for any length of time.

Exactly.

Watch a pro like Heaver in the Nova final have literally 3-5 bombs hit enemy ships in one turn. At a certain point you have to stop blaming the victim and start asking why the Devs allowed Nym into the game. They're correcting Miranda, which will only make Nym look more mean.

...

Just now, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Exactly.

Watch a pro like Heaver in the Nova final have literally 3-5 bombs hit enemy ships in one turn. At a certain point you have to stop blaming the victim and start asking why the Devs allowed Nym into the game. They're correcting Miranda, which will only make Nym look more mean.

I'm not agreeing with you. What you quoted from me isn't an agreement. It's actually the opposite. There are a lot of bad Nym players, including myself. If you're getting crushed by Nym, either they're good or you're bad.

1 minute ago, HammerOfReason said:

The Bomblet on average deals 1 damage.

So the question is not how to avoid bomblet, but how to make sure Nym takes a shot in response.

Exchanging bomb for a good shot is normally a good trade, given Nyms low agility and high point cost.

#sabine

1 minute ago, HammerOfReason said:

The Bomblet on average deals 1 damage.

So the question is not how to avoid bomblet, but how to make sure Nym takes a shot in response.

Exchanging bomb for a good shot is normally a good trade, given Nyms low agility and high point cost.

Except that the average damage you take from any Nym build is going to be 3 to 4, not 1. Either AC/ABT or AC/TLT, possibly plus Sabine.

3 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I'm not agreeing with you. What you quoted from me isn't an agreement. It's actually the opposite. There are a lot of bad Nym players, including myself. If you're getting crushed by Nym, either they're good or you're bad.

Well that's a bit aggressive - and wrong.
Nym is very forgiving and has more health than he should for your theory. He can tank an entire alpha 3-ship strike and realistically survive. He's also an ace who can arc-dodge, so he doesn't even need to tank your alpha - but he can. Then he dodges away, knife-fights, TLT's and/or bombs the ish out of you while you scramble to put damage onto him and his wingmate(s).

Sure - he's beatable, but saying it's completely up to the players is dead wrong. Think about this common scenario - you are playing both lists, Nym+Miranda v. whatever you're concocting in your head - who wins?