Looking for some feedback regarding a list I'm thinking about bringing to a store tournament

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 399/400

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Dodonnas Pride ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 49 total ship cost

[ flagship ] MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- General Dodonna ( 20 points)
- Mon Karren ( 8 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 154 total ship cost

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 points)
- Salvation ( 7 points)
- Slaved Turrets ( 6 points)
= 64 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 33 total ship cost

1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)
1 X-Wing Squadron ( 13 points)
1 Biggs Darklighter ( 19 points)
1 Wedge Antilles ( 19 points)
1 Luke Skywalker ( 20 points)
1 A-Wing Squadron ( 11 points)

Blockade run: I wouldn't do it with fewer than 5 ships. You want to be able to push across as many of them as possible.

Salvage run: awesome, unless they have strategic, and then you're down at least 40 points on your own objective. I'd only play it if I were taking strategic.

Corvette-B with Dodonna's Pride: Looks better on paper than it is in practice. LS really gives you a reroll chance on an awful lot of blues. So against the right ship, it can be powerful, but it is a lot of points for what turns out to be a fairly gimmicky one-trick pony. You're really basing everything on being able to push through crits to damage.

Mc80: XI7 or Mon Karren, but not both. They basically overlap and some of your points end up inefficiently spent.

Salvation: Slaved Turrets is pretty limiting. If you have to take a Turbolaser, then DTT is the first choice. You want a good way to fix blank reds. But I might consider just running it blank to save points. I often find myself pitching Salvation in favor of a TRC corvette, which again saves an awful lot of points.

GR-75: Fine.

Squadrons: There's really a mish-mass here. What is the purpose here? HOw do these squads work together? Where do they get pushed from other than the GR 75? I think the X-wing Ace trio ends up inefficient without some of the other squadron buffs and shennanigans that the Rebels have. For the 71 points in aces and the generic X-wing, you could grab 4x YT2400 for 64 points, or 2 more generic A-wings and 2x YT2400 for 54 points. There are a lot of ways to play with it depending upon how much squadron cover you want. If you want more token objectives like Salvage Run, then a couple of VCX freighters could be an extremely powerful addition.

If you're looking for list efficiency, there are a lot of small adjustments you can make to either get you more squadrons, more activations, or both, either of which is bound to improve the competitiveness of the list in some fashion.

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 398/400

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Station Assault
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

[ flagship ] MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- General Dodonna ( 20 points)
- Mon Karren ( 8 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points)
- Spinal Armament ( 9 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 157 total ship cost

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 points)
- Salvation ( 7 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 63 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Toryn Farr ( 7 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 38 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Dodonnas Pride ( 6 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 50 total ship cost

1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)
1 A-Wing Squadron ( 11 points)
2 YT-2400s ( 32 points)
2 VCX-100 Freighters ( 30 points)

When Vergilius offers advice on a Liberty tourney list, it's a really good idea to give that advice a very close look.

I'll offer a few thoughts on the MC80L. Take them with a grain of salt.

Like Vergilius says, Mon Karren and XI7's don't play well together. I'd dump Mon Karren. A lot of people like Engine Techs on the MC80L, but I'm not sold. My problem with MC80L usually isn't getting somewhere fast; I find it easier to overextend in my MC80L with Engine Techs. Engine Techs is valuable for double-ramming (flotillas!), but otherwise I am underwhelmed. Consider Raymus Antilles in the officer slot and a Nav Team in the support slot instead of Engine Techs. The Nav Team lets you either change speed OR gain an extra yaw for the token. Antilles lets you swim in tokens. That means your navigate command (which Antilles guarantees will also get you a nav token) will let you either: 1) change speed by 2 and get 1 extra yaw -OR- 2) change speed by 1 and get 2 extra yaw. That's very nicely flexible. But Antilles also lets all of your commands be super commands: engineering 4 on the ship means that with a token you get 6 engineering points to spend. That means you can dump 2 damage cards or add 3 shields. So dropping Mon Karren and Engine Techs (-16 points) while adding Raymus Antilles and a Nav Team (+11) gains you an extra 5 points, makes your maneuvering more yaw-y but less speedy while giving you huge command flexibility.

ETA: You posted a revision while I was finishing my thoughts! I'll give a look and respond below.

Ok, on the revision.

Bomber Command Center only affects squadrons with the Bomber keyword. None of your squads have that, so you don't need it. I like Toryn Farr, but she realize she isn't going to be very useful for anti-ship fire your squadrons are doing. She only affects blue dice, and most of the anti-ship batteries on your squads are black dice. If you're thinking to use her for your squads' anti-squadron fire, then cool.

On the MC80L, I personally like the XI7/H9 combo. Against ships with redirects, you use the H9 to lock down the non-redirect defense token, and XI7's make redirect really limited in effectiveness. This is guaranteeed to happen at medium range. Then Leading Shots allows you to attempt a "fix" for those blank reds you may have rolled, making a big damage spike a real possibility. Mon Karren in this situation is of very limited use since you area already limiting the number of defense tokens that could be effective either via accuracy or XI7 making redirect pretty ineffective. Of course, it doesn't have quite the synergy with Dodonna that XX-9's have, but this combo costs the same as XX-9/Spinal and really lets you drill a into hull pretty quickly. If your local meta uses a lot of flotillas, H9s are pretty darned useful to have while XI7s won't help against flotillas at all.

Your MC80L build is 137 points. For comparison...

Quote

MC80 Battle Cruiser (103)

Raymus Antilles (7)

Nav Team (4)

Leading Shots (4)

XI7 Turbolasers (6)

H9 Turbolasers (8)

Total: 132

While Station Assault is super interesting, it pins you to a particular part of the board. I think this fleet wants to maneuver. Since you don't have a Gunnery Team on your MC80L, what would you think about Advanced Gunnery as your red objective?

Only comment is to drop Mon Karren, use the points for Gunnery Team.

You need gunnery team, You need gunnery team,You need gunnery team, You need gunnery team. When using a liberty, always use the weapons team slot. I don't care if it is Veteran gunners, or even ordnance experts for using Sato, or even flight controllers with the liberty title, you need to use that weapon teams slot.

Also, get SFO on that liberty.

This was the final verdict, and I came in 2nd... the guy who won, had a smaller MOV than I did, but was more consistent during the day. Thanks for the help!

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 400/400

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 53 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 20 total ship cost

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 points)
- Salvation ( 7 points)
= 58 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Dodonnas Pride ( 6 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 50 total ship cost

[ flagship ] MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- General Dodonna ( 20 points)
- Raymus Antilles ( 7 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Nav Team ( 4 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 159 total ship cost

2 YT-2400s ( 32 points)
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)
1 A-Wing Squadron ( 11 points)

Seems like a fun list! Personally I would have used an mc30 instead of the 2 corvettes but it's a matter of taste at this point.

The extra activation came in handy to force my opponent to get into range of the MC80

I think it is very hard to play a ship combat list with low activation counts, so that final activation makes a huge difference.

Glad to hear that you did very well.

And thanks to @RobertK for the kind remarks.

I did recently try playing a Garm-Liberty, and that extra click of yaw that Madine gives is absolutely incredible. Sure, you can get somewhat the same with a nav command, and then a nav token+Nav Teams, but the Liberty flies very differently outside of a Madine list. On the other hand, landing that front arc on a couple of targets is pretty brutal in any list!

1 hour ago, Vergilius said:

I think it is very hard to play a ship combat list with low activation counts, so that final activation makes a huge difference.

Glad to hear that you did very well.

I find it hard to believe 4 counts as low now.

And you make me sad. You basically just said that the flotilla spam is necessary to have "ships combat lists"

40 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

I find it hard to believe 4 counts as low now.

And you make me sad. You basically just said that the flotilla spam is necessary to have "ships combat lists"

3 is definitely low. You'll see plenty of lists with 4, but their success depends at least somewhat upon their squadron wing and how its flown. The squadron wing is making up the deficit in that case that the extra activations get. The data we've seen coming in puts the average between 4 and 5, so 4 is at least below average, whether that also makes it low is an open question.

His list above has 5 activations. Only one of them is a flotilla, so that is hardly spam. I wouldn't start calling it spam until it hits 3. Depends upon the list and what other ships you're running.

Of course, that's just my opinion and you can always take it with a grain of salt if you'd like.

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 10:07 AM, Stovrose38 said:

This was the final verdict, and I came in 2nd... the guy who won, had a smaller MOV than I did, but was more consistent during the day. Thanks for the help!

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 400/400

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

[Redacted by Rebel Intelligence for brevity, etc...]

Nice job coming in second! I'm curious how first player vs. second player vs. objective play worked out for you. At 400 points, I expect you played a lot of second player. The extra activation was probably important for that. What objectives did you play? How did they work out for you? I would think you played a lot of Blockade Run.

On 9/10/2017 at 11:07 AM, Stovrose38 said:

This was the final verdict, and I came in 2nd... the guy who won, had a smaller MOV than I did, but was more consistent during the day. Thanks for the help!

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 400/400

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 53 total ship cost

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 points)
- Salvation ( 7 points)
= 58 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Dodonnas Pride ( 6 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 50 total ship cost

How did the Neb-B and Corvette-B do? Also, do you think H9s performed better overall than XX-9s with Dodonna?

If I play Dodonna, it's to maximize his efficiency, which is imo not really the case in those lists.

For me, Dodonna goes with: XX-9 turbolasers, BWs/BCC, Garel's Honor

15 hours ago, Ritalbringer said:

If I play Dodonna, it's to maximize his efficiency, which is imo not really the case in those lists.

For me, Dodonna goes with: XX-9 turbolasers, BWs/BCC, Garel's Honor

Very true, Dodonna doesn't sync well with these types of lists, though they can work. He is also the cheapest rebel admiral, so a lot of people who don't need a special ability will use him too.

On 9/11/2017 at 1:43 PM, eliteone said:

How did the Neb-B and Corvette-B do? Also, do you think H9s performed better overall than XX-9s with Dodonna?

The corvette B did beautifully! Consistent 5 damage (double arc'd) and you can by-pass their defenses and deal a crit when you're lucky. The Neb-B was also a huge success, although it died every game, it dished out 7-8 damage before then. There was even a single shot where it did 6 damage in a single roll. That kind of hit makes them spend defense tokens... before the MC80 fires.

Uh, I think H9's performed better because it's dice manipulation. You can change a solid roll into a GREAT roll. XX-9's can be worked around with defense tokens, making sure that shields absorb the damage... just not consistent enough