The StarViper. I can hear the eyes rolling all the way over here. It's trash. It's too expensive. It's got no teeth. It's too crunchy. and the list goes on and on and on. Just as it has for the two years its been out.
I'm one of the few players in my area who doesn't agree (Austin TX straddles a large community across central TX, so it's not a small sample size, trust me). Even before the announcement of the StarViper MkII title, I had put in the time, fumbled my way along the steep learning curve and realized the StarViper is the rare ship that isn't defined by the dial or the action bar, but by the player.
That's what makes it an enigma, in that it can't be classified because it doesn't have an obvious role to fill or build that fits it like a glove. Due to this nebulous nature, players have struggled to find any real value in it.
Maybe that our fault, as players, we look for ways to classify and identify ships so we can more easily build lists and strategies around them.
In all the time that I've been using the StarViper one thing has become clear, if you can improvise well the StarViper will deliver.
But let's get down to brass-tacks, the StarViper's closest analog is the E-Wing. Currently that means that much like the E-Wing, there's just the one Pilot that's really worth mentioning and in this case it's Guri, but soon that may change (but we'll get to that). As we've seen from numerous tournaments, high and low, Corran and the E-wing rewards expert maneuvering and unique action tempo. While Guri obviously can't compete in a pilot-skill battle, she can equip all of the same upgrades, but where Corran gets the astromech, she gets the illicit (thanks to the Virago title).
Even at the price point they are very similar. But whereas Corran's ability is raw offense, Guri's is entriely context sensitive, being at range one of an enemy nets you a free focus token. There's been a lot of debate as to the best use for it, some earmark it for defense and others load it for the attack in scenarios using Advanced Proton Torpedoes.
Using the E-Wing as rough guide as to how best use the StarViper, we can start to get a better picture of how best to employ the unique ship in conjunction with the StarViper MkII title. Corran has very little variation on his build, mostly just the choice between Fire Control System or Advanced Sensors (the rest of his upgrades being mostly standard, PTL, R2D2, Engine Upgrade). In our Starviper example the use of FCS or Adv. Sensors leads us down two separate paths.
We'll take a look at FCS first because it trends on the more popular due to ease of use. The FCS on a maneuverable ship like the Starviper helps yield more consistent damage output in the long run due to repeating target locks. The real win is that as long as you don't change your target you can use subsequent rounds' action to get your position right where you want it.
Now with Advanced Sensors coupled with the new 'bent' barrel roll makes the StarViper almost nightmarishly maneuverable. Seriously, I've been doing in game testing with the title in conjunction with Adv. Sensors almost since it was previewed and it yields you almost an embarrassment of riches for positional options. Advanced Sensors is the go to option if you want to be absolutely sure you end up where you want to be. In this age of hardcore alpha strikes the best defense is to not be in the line of fire at all.
This is all well good, but it still doesn't tell you anything that probably didn't already know.
That's kind of my point, all the information about how to use the StarViper is already out there, but it comes down to doing the work.
The StarViper doesn't move like any other ship. I'll say that again. The StarViper doesn't move like any other ship. That is the real strength, the bent barrel roll coupled with having 1-speed turns gives you the ultimate close rang knife fighter at your fingertips. It balks at Dash Rendar trying to escape intruders in his HLC bubble and Quickdraw is de-fanged when he can't return fire. Leaning heavily on this new mechanic to move in ways that other players can't visualize is the key to early success.
Having said that, it's time to talk about Dalan. The StarViper's new (probably) golden boy has one of the most potent positional abilities perhaps in the whole game. Coupled with Advanced Sensors he can get in close and stay exactly where is opponent doesn't want him with ease while still having a focus or target lock to show for it.
When all is said and done, using a StarViper requires that you think ahead. Improvising is important but only insofar as adapting to your opponent's strategy.
Which brings us to Thweek. This copycat embodies the very formless-ness that makes the StarViper the ultimate secret weapon.
Bruce Lee was quoted as saying, "You pour water into a cup it becomes the cup. Pour it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend." What Bruce was getting at was a key tenet of zen martial arts, in being formless you can take any form you need. While Thweek epitomizes this with unique pilot ability it actually applies to all StarVipers. You need an arc-dodger early? Done. Need precision torpedo strike, can do. Need a late game hunter, check. However, it can't do them all at once. The StarViper isn't a multi-tasker, at least not in the obvious sense. In truth it's more of an 'omni-tasker' in that in can do anything but not at the drop of a hat, hence the thinking ahead.
So we can now take all of this info, the System slot, the bent barrel roll and the unique pilots and start to define our StarViper in what we'd like to be able to do.
For this example I want my StarViper to be a slippery SOB, and general nuisance that will function similarly to a TIE Phantom while supporting a big ordnance sled in the following list:

Guri —
Intensity
Advanced Proton Torpedoes
Advanced Sensors
Cloaking Device
Autothrusters
StarViper Mk.II
Virago
Ship Total: 43

Captain Nym (Scum) —
Veteran Instincts
Twin Laser Turret
Extra Munitions
Cruise Missiles
Proton Bombs
Proton Bombs
Accuracy Corrector
"Genius"
Long-Range Scanners
Havoc
Ship Total: 55

-98pts-

This list leverages the maneuvering of the StarViper with Captain Nym's raw damage output. The cloaking device allows Guri a margin of error when setting up for new approaches where she may not have the opportunity to attack but my come under fire, paired with Autothrusters, it can be very very tough to land a hit on her. I've found that many opponents try to knock Guri out early which opens up Nym to position properly for bombing and Cruise Missile attacks. Additionally, Guri's ability in conjunction with Intensity means that you're really encouraged to use the bent barrel roll. A word on firepower, Guri using the APT's is not for a joust. Adv. Sensors allow her to target lock then S-loop behind her target arriving at range 1, where her ability nets her the free focus, ultimately making a nearly guaranteed 4-5 hit attack. This is a valuable tool for finishing off and ace or potentially crippling a component piece of something like Fair Ship Rebels.
The above list is by no means the only usable StarViper build, but it is the easiest to visualize it's use. I could go on about Xizor, Dalan, Thweek or even a unique build of Black Sun Assassins with Snapshot, but that is for another time.
In summation, If you're willing to put in the work, play thoughtfully and with some flexibility, then you may learn that the StarViper really does have some nasty fangs.
Until next time, good hunting out there in the black!

Don't give up all our secrets, man! We rare 'Viper pilots are poised to run rough-shod over the galaxy!

Very good writeup, though I don't agree on the lists.

I don't really get the double proton bombs on Nym. If you're willing to give up Bomblet, there's so much more you can do with that slot. The free evade from clusters is pretty awesome. (Killing people without stripping shields is a cool idea, but not very realistic in the current metagame.)

Also, considering we're talking about post-GfH anyway, Harpoon>Cruise.

Last but not least, there are so many over the top upgrades you can actually fit in another ship if you strip both of them down to standard builds. For example:

Guri (Mk2, Virago, Mindlink, Autothrusters, Advanced Sensors) 34

Nym (VI, TLT, Bomblet, Havoc, EU, Advanced Sensors, Genius) 47

Inaldra (Mindlink, Heavy Scyk)

99/100

with 1 spare point for either Dampeners on Guri or Tractor on Inaldra.

10 minutes ago, Elavion said:

with 1 spare point for either Dampeners on Guri or Tractor on Inaldra.

You could even drop TLT to autoblaster and throw Mangler on the Scyk.

even as it was the starviper was decent. current prince xizor with missile Zs is almost guaranteed to get your starviper ace into a late game 1v1. doesnt mean youll win, that last enemy ship might beat you, but its a fun list thatll never leave you feeling like you didnt have a chance. with the new pilots n title, i dont think the starviper will be anything less than brutally overpowered. Cloaking device + Adv.Sensors and PTL on Dalan oboros is basically a pre-nerf phantom with a massive buff at the cost of 1 red die. trying to guess where he'll be is gonna be unreasonable, and dont get me started on Thweek "shark jumper" McCloneboss

ive found the secret to starvipers is having another ship us the "bodyguard" ept it comes with. a Xizor with stealth device and the extra agility from bodyguard is rolling 5 agility before other upgrades/abilities. if damage does get through, you pass it off through xizor and keep your stealth device. with PRS and Ion Dischargers it might even helpful if your opponent attacks Xizor. Its not as broken as some things, but thats good.

Xixor, Serissu and 3 Zs... Add upgrades as wanted. Personally I go M Link on Serissu and Xixor, heavy Scyk and TB, and then fill the rest.

Great fun and causes target priority issues a lot!

11 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

if damage does get through, you pass it off through xizor and keep your stealth device.

That's not how it works. Even if you pass the damage to another ship, you are still hit by the attack, and lose your stealth device.

Thanks for all the feedback guys! I was working from an easy to approach example for Guri, Nym as her wingman uses the Proton Bombs simply becuase ignoring shields and racking up consecutive crits has worked really well for me.

1 hour ago, Vontoothskie said:

even as it was the starviper was decent. current prince xizor with missile Zs is almost guaranteed to get your starviper ace into a late game 1v1. doesnt mean youll win, that last enemy ship might beat you, but its a fun list thatll never leave you feeling like you didnt have a chance. with the new pilots n title, i dont think the starviper will be anything less than brutally overpowered. Cloaking device + Adv.Sensors and PTL on Dalan oboros is basically a pre-nerf phantom with a massive buff at the cost of 1 red die. trying to guess where he'll be is gonna be unreasonable, and dont get me started on Thweek "shark jumper" McCloneboss

If Dalan runs PtL he'll be sitting at PS6. So, predictions aren't much of an issue for PS7+, you can just go by where he is, or bring turrets/bombs/stress/ions.

Also PtL+AdvS is anti-synergistic with his ability, which is why you'll most often be seeing him with VI, but that's then just a slippery 3-dice one-action ship. Don't blow it out of proportion.

Also cloaking device illicit is far from on par with Phantoms.

Also I'm convinced that Thweek is great as a novelty piece but pretty much not competitively reliable, because how many pilot abilities are all that good a) without upgrades to support them b) at PS4? So more often than not you'll be seeing him using his ability as a super-VI which means we're back to the case of 3-attack one action ships.

Just a small thing: fcs and adv. Sensors are not the only choices. Sensor jammer is a very viable option.

1 hour ago, Vontoothskie said:

i if damage does get through, you pass it off through xizor and keep your stealth device.

I am not sure that works. Xizor IS hit by the attack, but the damage is offloaded to another ship.

What do you guys think of this Guri?

•Guri (30)

5 / 3 / 3 / 4 / 1

Outmaneuver (3)

StarViper Mk. II (-3)

•Virago (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Autothrusters (2)

(35)

I've used FCS because I don't own Advanced Sensors (or Sensor Jammer). I found Intensity fairly lacklustre*, so I hunted for another EPT. Not enough green for PtL, Expertise is not too useful due to the free focus, and Predator isn't too useful because of FCS -- but the StarViper might be good at getting outside an enemy's arc due to the curved barrel rolls. I saw one other user using it in another thread as well.

I was generally able to flip Intensity about every other turn. I use it almost exclusively for the Evade. On turns where it's exhausted, I do a focus action and try to end up in R1 of an enemy so still double tokened.

This is my current favorite fun list:

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v4!s!101:176,-1:55:15:T.-1;266:176,-1:55:15:T.-1;266:176,-1:55:15:T.-1;247:176:50:-1:&sn=Snake Pit&obs=

Guri: Mindlink, Autothrusters, Mk. II.

BS Assassin: Mindlink, Autothrusters, Mk. II.

BS Assassin: Mindlink, Autothrusters, Mk. II.

Inaldra: Minklink, Light Scyck.

100 points. I find that opponents have no idea where I'm going to be facing and the StarViper is easily the greatest knife-fighter in the game now. Mindlink + Guri means that they all have awesome action efficiency, which allows me to use all the fun barrel rolls.

10 hours ago, Sparklelord said:

Also I'm convinced that Thweek is great as a novelty piece but pretty much not competitively reliable, because how many pilot abilities are all that good a) without upgrades to support them b) at PS4? So more often than not you'll be seeing him using his ability as a super-VI which means we're back to the case of 3-attack one action ships.

Except you can give him FCS, so really it's a one action ship, just like Nym is PS 8, and Miranda's ability is useless on a 2 red dice ship.

But his ability is absolutely gross with the right mimic. FCS and omega leader is nuts. Omega ace is is vomit inducing. Dengar wishes he had FCS for his double tap. He's a terrifying Biggs. And we're at the height of the PS wars so pretty much a PS 8-10 starviper for 30 points is very good if there's nothing else on the table.

I don't think he'll be taken competitively but it's not because he isn't really really good, but because he's an unknown quantity so he's difficult to practice with.

guys.... how good is thweek with torps? Get highest PS?

Probably worst vs swarms, but he will be high ps there too.

Oh wait. It can't take Guidance chips. =/ And the best torp is arguably proton.

Also, seems like pulsed ray shield doesn't work as well as auto thrusters.

I've been flying a bit Guri pre-new release. Even without the new title, she's brilliant in a Mindlink list. And so enjoyable to play!

Let's assume that Mindlink is gonna get a nerf, (cuz I hope so). At the very least, let's assume that mindlink is OP trash. =)

I joined the CASUALLLLL FILTH.

7 hours ago, Sekac said:

Except you can give him FCS, so really it's a one action ship, just like Nym is PS 8, and Miranda's ability is useless on a 2 red dice ship.

But his ability is absolutely gross with the right mimic. FCS and omega leader is nuts. Omega ace is is vomit inducing. Dengar wishes he had FCS for his double tap. He's a terrifying Biggs. And we're at the height of the PS wars so pretty much a PS 8-10 starviper for 30 points is very good if there's nothing else on the table.

I don't think he'll be taken competitively but it's not because he isn't really really good, but because he's an unknown quantity so he's difficult to practice with.

Starviper has 3 attack dice. Miranda's ability would be gross on Thweek.

That Nym is traaaash

7 hours ago, Sekac said:

Except you can give him FCS, so really it's a one action ship, just like Nym is PS 8, and Miranda's ability is useless on a 2 red dice ship.

But his ability is absolutely gross with the right mimic. FCS and omega leader is nuts. Omega ace is is vomit inducing. Dengar wishes he had FCS for his double tap. He's a terrifying Biggs. And we're at the height of the PS wars so pretty much a PS 8-10 starviper for 30 points is very good if there's nothing else on the table.

I don't think he'll be taken competitively but it's not because he isn't really really good, but because he's an unknown quantity so he's difficult to practice with.

OL is good because his ability + Comm Relay + Juke + PS8 gives him a) late activation TL b) early combat shooting c) permanent crack shot against his target d) an evade against unmodded attack dice.

Thweek has none of those attributes if he copies OL. If he relies on FCS for his TL, he also won't be getting the defensive benefit until the next round (unless he took a TL action, or is shooting at PS4 or lower targets). So while OL is one of the examples of abilities that Thweek will likely be tempted to take, it's still not as good as the real deal, and honestly barely threatening.

Copying Omega Ace would be great, I'll grant you that - FCS Starviper is by far a better platform than a TIE/fo for that ability. I mean, I've personally never seen Omega Ace on the other side of the table but you've still got a point there. In fact, many of the abilities on 2 die ships would be pretty good on FCS Thweek, because a lot of those abilities were designed with limited offense in mind.

Dengar's double tap is still better or at worst equal to Thweek's, a) if Expertise is in use and b) if he has K4. Offensively, focus and TL are equally beneficial, so a TL for the second shot gives you the same expectation values as converting all focus on the second shot. Again, PS4 matters; it's much easier for Dengar to get his shot lined up when he's one of the last to move. And of course Dengar still has the advantage of having a shot, even on turns where nobody is in arc to trigger his ability (yes, he costs >50% more than Thweek, so he should have some advantages). But Dengar's ability is definitely one of the better ones for Thweek to copy.

He's a really poor Biggs, I have no idea why you would suggest otherwise. Biggs can a) cancel hits in excess of 2 at the cost of stress, b) discard one unfavorable crit, c) benefit from any of many Rebel squad mates abilities to reduce incoming fire/add evades/draw away uncanceled damage.

Thweek can do none of those things, at the benefit of +1 agility and autothrusters. And is more expensive, which is usually something you want to avoid with your sacrificial ships. He will have no squad mates designed around taking damage away from him or reducing incoming fire, because you won't see Biggs in every match so there's no reason why you would build your squad that way. Even if you did, there's no question that Rebels do it better than Scum. Biggs is no good if he's not taking shots meant for better targets in your squad, but Starvipers really don't like focused fire, is the thing.

So, the main premise of my post was Thweek is gonna take super-VI most of the time, because most of the time staying at PS4 just to copy someone's ability - that they have upgrades and squads built around which Thweek almost certainly won't - is going to be the worse choice to make.

I'll admit I left out FCS for the double mods, sure.

Even so I reiterate, a high PS yet 3-dice single tap arc-restricted ship with no unique ability to speak of and double mods some of the time is not particularly threatening or even frequently to be seen at the competitive level. And that's not because he's hard to practice with, it's precisely because he's NOT really really good.

55 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Starviper has 3 attack dice. Miranda's ability would be gross on Thweek.

He knows that. His point was that I was taking Thweek naked (ignoring that FCS is one of the best upgrades in the game) when I said single mods, just like Miranda has TLT quite often and Nym has VI stapled on.

4 hours ago, Sparklelord said:

OL is good because his ability + Comm Relay + Juke + PS8 gives him a) late activation TL b) early combat shooting c) permanent crack shot against his target d) an evade against unmodded attack dice.

Thweek has none of those attributes if he copies OL. If he relies on FCS for his TL, he also won't be getting the defensive benefit until the next round (unless he took a TL action, or is shooting at PS4 or lower targets). So while OL is one of the examples of abilities that Thweek will likely be tempted to take, it's still not as good as the real deal, and honestly barely threatening.

Copying Omega Ace would be great, I'll grant you that - FCS Starviper is by far a better platform than a TIE/fo for that ability. I mean, I've personally never seen Omega Ace on the other side of the table but you've still got a point there. In fact, many of the abilities on 2 die ships would be pretty good on FCS Thweek, because a lot of those abilities were designed with limited offense in mind.

Dengar's double tap is still better or at worst equal to Thweek's, a) if Expertise is in use and b) if he has K4. Offensively, focus and TL are equally beneficial, so a TL for the second shot gives you the same expectation values as converting all focus on the second shot. Again, PS4 matters; it's much easier for Dengar to get his shot lined up when he's one of the last to move. And of course Dengar still has the advantage of having a shot, even on turns where nobody is in arc to trigger his ability (yes, he costs >50% more than Thweek, so he should have some advantages). But Dengar's ability is definitely one of the better ones for Thweek to copy.

He's a really poor Biggs, I have no idea why you would suggest otherwise. Biggs can a) cancel hits in excess of 2 at the cost of stress, b) discard one unfavorable crit, c) benefit from any of many Rebel squad mates abilities to reduce incoming fire/add evades/draw away uncanceled damage.

Thweek can do none of those things, at the benefit of +1 agility and autothrusters. And is more expensive, which is usually something you want to avoid with your sacrificial ships. He will have no squad mates designed around taking damage away from him or reducing incoming fire, because you won't see Biggs in every match so there's no reason why you would build your squad that way. Even if you did, there's no question that Rebels do it better than Scum. Biggs is no good if he's not taking shots meant for better targets in your squad, but Starvipers really don't like focused fire, is the thing.

So, the main premise of my post was Thweek is gonna take super-VI most of the time, because most of the time staying at PS4 just to copy someone's ability - that they have upgrades and squads built around which Thweek almost certainly won't - is going to be the worse choice to make.

I'll admit I left out FCS for the double mods, sure.

Even so I reiterate, a high PS yet 3-dice single tap arc-restricted ship with no unique ability to speak of and double mods some of the time is not particularly threatening or even frequently to be seen at the competitive level. And that's not because he's hard to practice with, it's precisely because he's NOT really really good.

In my practice games with thweek I've encountered Omega Ace twice (2 different players). I copied him once and chewed Kylo Ren and a few TIEs to pieces. The other time I copied Howlrunner and shredded a TIE swarm.

I've been running Thweek, Serissu with VI and tractor beam, and 2 vaksai BSAs. It's a good jousting squad and a great match-up vs FSR. Biggs is an awful Biggs if he's getting tossed out of formation with a tractor beam. R4-D6, draw their fire, and selflessness can do nothing to prevent it. And on the flip side, FSR lacks the consistent offense to really threaten Thweek backed by autothrusters and Serissu. Jess is the only ship that has the mods to do it, but she's also at risk of being PS killed.

With Omega Leader, it gives me a clear path to victory. If I can force an end game where it's OL vs Thweek, it's 2 unmodified reds against 3 unmodified greens when OL is attacking, and 3 reds against 3 greens when Thweek is attacking. Advantage Thweek. And he costs more so unless OL's anemic offense punches through multiple times, Thweek wins that endgame 9 out of 10 times.