After my rebels being rebels post I was encouraged by how responsive you guys were so heres another question. since on my characters, a IG-88 assassin droid left, we gave control over too our partys A.I. helper/companion that was so original named Cortana. Im really busy with school son don't have time digging into star wars lore to find out what an A.I. in star wars actually means and possibly how they function in the world. Again I am trying not too pass off all my questions too this forum and you guys to do work for me but hey this seems cool.

Thanks again, Sam

My opinion is that AI is almost ubiquitous in the Star Wars universe. Just about every droid above a Gonk not only has to have a restraining bolt fitted to stop it wandering off and doing its own thing, but they have unique personalities, individual quirks, feel emotions, undergo pain and suffering, can contemplate their own demise with a sense of dread, and develop attachments and bonds with organics and other droids.

So much so, in fact, that most droid owners have their droids' memories wiped from time to time to prevent them getting "too quirky"; which to me is a euphemism for "continuing to develop a sapient personality". Fridge horror suggests that the memory wipes and the ownership of droids is nothing short of murder and slavery. C-3PO's horror at the idea of having his memory erased - so casually mentioned by Bail Organa - was palpable. BB-8's sad little moan when Finn tells him that Poe is dead. R2-D2's humming to himself while performing various tasks. IG-88 working as a bounty hunter. All tell me that droids - at least the major ones in the series - are most definitely examples of sapient AI.

11 hours ago, Samuel Richard said:

After my rebels being rebels post I was encouraged by how responsive you guys were so heres another question. since on my characters, a IG-88 assassin droid left, we gave control over too our partys A.I. helper/companion that was so original named Cortana. Im really busy with school son don't have time digging into star wars lore to find out what an A.I. in star wars actually means and possibly how they function in the world. Again I am trying not too pass off all my questions too this forum and you guys to do work for me but hey this seems cool.

Thanks again, Sam

I don't think there is an "official" stance on AI in the Star Wars universe. And opinions between players can vary wildly. Some people attribute droids full sentience (I'm in this camp), while others simply consider them to be simulations of sentience, and not the real thing.

The issue is mainly due to the fact that back in the 70's, there wasn't a ton of material, or popular culture contemplation put towards AI, and the moral/legal ramifications of it. They were treated like property, but they were also treated like people, which kind of had the unfortunate implication of slavery.

Bottom line, you should make the call on what AI means at your table, and how it will impact your story. Other posters here have had entire campaigns orbit around the idea of droid liberation, and other stuff like that. So it's fertile soil for storytelling, but you might want to chat up your players on if they want it to be a big thing or not.

It also varies on personal belief within the universe; my PC, partly because he had witnessed droids do the most heartless things (resolving the hostage situation by executing the hostage comes up time and time again, and is actually a defining factor of my character's disilluisons in his unit.), refuses to believe that droids can have sapiance at all. They are merely following and interoperating their own parameters to achieve their goals in whatever manner is most effcient without bypassing their primary programming. As such he does treat them as mere equipment and would think nothing of wiping them if their traits proved to be disadvantous, and thinks exactly the same of the sympathetic droid in the party that otherwise expresses human, if somewhat morally deprived traits.

My players seem to fall into the line of droids not being sentient. They currently have 2 astromech and a protocol droid, which they very rarely interact with, or bring with them. As the GM, I'm not entirely sure why they have them. From what I've seen of their limited interactions with them, I'm fairly certain none of them see the droids as anything more than a sophisticated computer. This actually gives me a good plot hook idea for my group, that I may weave into the next few sessions. It'll give me an idea of where they stand on the topic, and make for some good role playing.

I tend to agree with Daronil on this one. If they weren't sentient AI, the restraining bolts wouldn't be needed, and individual personalities would be less likely to shine through, as well as the memory wipes. It's interesting, that in the movies and tv shows, different people have different views on this. You can see it in the subtle ways people treat and interact with droids. Mace Windu for instance, seemed to see them as simple machines, where as Anakin and Ahsoka both seem to think of them as sentient beings. You can infer this from the story arch where R2 went missing, and was replaced by Goldie. Mace looked down on Anakin and Ahsokas search for R2. At the same time, Anakin didn't trust Goldie, as he kept messing up, where Ahsoka took to Goldie very easily. In the end, Anakins mistrust was due to Goldie being a Seperatist spy. So even in universe, there doesn't seem to be one side to this same argument.

Thanks guys

This hasn't really come up in our game. The PCs tend to treat the droids like they do any other NPC (so leaning toward sentience). But it has occurred to me that all the quirks, sense of fear, apparent self-awareness, etc could be elaborate and near universal programming designed to make droids easier for people to relate to and to make people less fearful of them. After all if droids fear death, injury, or mind wipes then they're motivated by the same fears we are. They seem vulnerable and, therefore, less threatening. Without those fears they'd act more like a Terminator and no normal person would want them around.

So maybe these apparent emotions and self awareness are just a clever bit of programming designed to make them appear to be sentient for the benefit of the public (and to improve sales by the droid manufacturers).

Just a thought

1 hour ago, FinarinPanjoro said:

This hasn't really come up in our game. The PCs tend to treat the droids like they do any other NPC (so leaning toward sentience). But it has occurred to me that all the quirks, sense of fear, apparent self-awareness, etc could be elaborate and near universal programming designed to make droids easier for people to relate to and to make people less fearful of them. After all if droids fear death, injury, or mind wipes then they're motivated by the same fears we are. They seem vulnerable and, therefore, less threatening. Without those fears they'd act more like a Terminator and no normal person would want them around.

So maybe these apparent emotions and self awareness are just a clever bit of programming designed to make them appear to be sentient for the benefit of the public (and to improve sales by the droid manufacturers).

Just a thought

Right, but aside from cracking them open and reading the code, if they present themselves as having all the same emotions as a biological, can you really say they are different? It's feasible to say we are simply programmed by our genetics to replicate those emotions, as they are conducive to staying alive. The fear response helps us avoid potential dangers, injury and pain reception also allow us to not be as likely to die, by alerting us to dangers. I certainly didn't program myself with these biological imperatives, and neither did the droids. So the fact that someone put those codes into them, does that really mean they aren't genuine responses?

And that's where the fuzzy line on the subject of AI begins in my opinion. The idea that because the reactions are fabricated, they aren't real. When you can easily say that about human responses to things. For example, panic attacks due to phobias. There is no real threat, but the body is reacting anyway. And try telling someone in the middle of an attack like that, that their reaction isn't real. It might be unfounded, sure, but it's still real. The biological ramifications of the fear can be measured and monitored, even if the cause is faulty.

That's why I definitely fall into the sentient side of the AI debate, because I have no real way to accurately differentiate my emotional responses to that of a Star Wars droid. So I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they are indeed alive, and treat them accordingly.

I agree with this position personally. I was just presenting it for discussion. The movie 'Ex Machina' has a great example of this very thing and exploring the difference between having a simulated conscience (like the Jiminy Cricket kind) versus a real conscience.

The episode 'Measure of a Man' in the second season of Star Trek The Next Generation is also a great investigation of this and sort of lands on the point of 'Since you can't prove this one way or the other, the only moral course of action is to assume that what appears to be sentient is sentient.'

Oh I know you were just presenting it for discussion, my response was discussing it

8 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

Right, but aside from cracking them open and reading the code, if they present themselves as having all the same emotions as a biological, can you really say they are different? It's feasible to say we are simply programmed by our genetics to replicate those emotions, as they are conducive to staying alive. The fear response helps us avoid potential dangers, injury and pain reception also allow us to not be as likely to die, by alerting us to dangers. I certainly didn't program myself with these biological imperatives, and neither did the droids. So the fact that someone put those codes into them, does that really mean they aren't genuine responses?

And that's where the fuzzy line on the subject of AI begins in my opinion. The idea that because the reactions are fabricated, they aren't real. When you can easily say that about human responses to things. For example, panic attacks due to phobias. There is no real threat, but the body is reacting anyway. And try telling someone in the middle of an attack like that, that their reaction isn't real. It might be unfounded, sure, but it's still real. The biological ramifications of the fear can be measured and monitored, even if the cause is faulty.

That's why I definitely fall into the sentient side of the AI debate, because I have no real way to accurately differentiate my emotional responses to that of a Star Wars droid. So I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they are indeed alive, and treat them accordingly.

One of the best analyses of A.I. I've seen. Worthy of Philip K. D ick, KungFuFerret!

(EDIT: I can't believe the censor wiped out the name of one of the greatest sci-fi authors ever...*sigh*)

9 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

Oh I know you were just presenting it for discussion, my response was discussing it

Your verbal KungFu is mighty honored Ferret!

2 hours ago, Daronil said:

One of the best analyses of A.I. I've seen. Worthy of Philip K. D ick, KungFuFerret!

(EDIT: I can't believe the censor wiped out the name of one of the greatest sci-fi authors ever...*sigh*)

Yeah the profanity filter on this forum is a bit....odd. For example, the word sk-eet without the hyphen is censored, even though the only official definition i can find for it is "clay discs people shoot at for sport", but words like mother+that word that rhymes with trucker, get through somehow. *shrugs*

1 hour ago, KungFuFerret said:

Yeah the profanity filter on this forum is a bit....odd. For example, the word sk-eet without the hyphen is censored, even though the only official definition i can find for it is "clay discs people shoot at for sport", but words like mother+that word that rhymes with trucker, get through somehow. *shrugs*

Well that has to be one of the most obscure profanities! I just went searching and discovered on Urban Dictionary that "skeeting" is a form of, ahem, natural birth control. But that's something I didn't know 10 minutes ago - like you, I thought it was a gun sport, or a slang term for a mosquito.

So wait, was this basically a computer, or a droid?

On 9/29/2017 at 7:35 AM, KungFuFerret said:

Right, but aside from cracking them open and reading the code, if they present themselves as having all the same emotions as a biological, can you really say they are different?

Without cracking them open and reading the code I can't draw any conclusions one way or the other. Ergo, while I can't say they are different neither can I saw they are the same. Drawing a conclusion either way would, based on the standard of evidence you yourself define in your opening sentence, be irresponsible. That said: A game master may, in the absence of that evidence, decide what that code says for their own campaign. Whatever they decide, however, will only be right for their game.

I like to think of AI being as much hardware as software. The various differences and imperfections in what has to very complex hardware is as much a factor in a Droid's personality as the programming. In the real world, chips made on the same wafer can have different speed and temperature capabilities due to various imperfections in the manufacturing process. These kinds of variances are likely in the SW setting and could help account for two droids of the same make and model fresh off the line each having a different personality.

7 hours ago, Vondy said:

Without cracking them open and reading the code I can't draw any conclusions one way or the other. Ergo, while I can't say they are different neither can I saw they are the same. Drawing a conclusion either way would, based on the standard of evidence you yourself define in your opening sentence, be irresponsible. That said: A game master may, in the absence of that evidence, decide what that code says for their own campaign. Whatever they decide, however, will only be right for their game.

Do you think that of every human that you don't crack open and read the brain matter of? Or do you assume that since they act like you do, they actually have emotions, like most humans on the planet?