Just now, Basylle said:

What is that "green matt thing?" I do see it in all the videos, but not sure exactly what I'm looking for if I decide to get one.

Pretty sure he is talking about one of the game mats that are out on the market right now. Yeah, a green felt covered plywood board can be just as effec to be, but the mats have a nice look.

13 minutes ago, Basylle said:

What is that "green matt thing?" I do see it in all the videos, but not sure exactly what I'm looking for if I decide to get one.

It is a hobby/crafting cutting matt. Has measurement lines ... angle cutting lines at 30, 45, 60, 90 ... handy gadget and available at Michael's and Hobby Lobby

That is what I am referencing

1 minute ago, Dash Two said:

It is a hobby/crafting cutting matt. Has measurement lines ... angle cutting lines at 30, 45, 60, 90 ... handy gadget and available at Michael's and Hobby Lobby

That is what I am referencing

Awesome. Thank you, much!

14 minutes ago, Basylle said:

Awesome. Thank you, much!

Particularly good deal here...

https://www.amazon.com/Crafty-World-Professional-Self-Healing-Non-Slip/dp/B00DE2JGT2

Dude. At $25 a unit I'd cry with joy. Having played GW games for years that's like nothing. And RW minis are pretty dang good for that price. Id hope they don't sacrifice quality or pace to accommodate dirt cheap prices. Full steam ahead!

The big questionis what the $25 will include.

If it's the full unit and upgrades then it's a good deal. If it's 7 guys and then you have to buy an upgrade box, then its loses some value.

I figure around January or February we'll know.

7 guys appears to be a full unit with the standard options.

9 hours ago, Hidatom said:

Having a $25 blister that is a fully playable unit (4-5 standard troopers + 1-2 specials + upgrades) is reasonable.
remember that the point level is 800 which is ~4-6 troops, 2-4 support and 1-2 leaders.

It's absolutely terrible, but then again GW is charging $40 for a Tactical Squad these days, so people are pretty much accustomed to that and worse.

If you compare it to IA, I'm not sure $20 will get you a full 7 unit squad. FFG is charging $15 for 3 rebel troopers, I hope I'm wrong, but $25-$30 seems more likely.

7 hours ago, AldousSnow said:

Only semi related, but is there any word on how "heros" or commanders will be sold? The Han Solo, Chewbacca, Lando, Palpatine, Veers, etc type units. I wasnt a huge fan of the IA 2 packs, and it has nothing to do with price. I'd either like single units or hero packs with 4 or 5.

I could imagine they sell them in a single hero pack. Like the lieutenants in descent. Which cost 9 or 15 bucks depending on the model size.

7 hours ago, AldousSnow said:

In what way is it absolutely terrible? That works out at around $3.50 a model, even if you discount the cards.

That compares well not just with GW, but is about even (give or take a bit) with several other 32mm sci-fI/fantasy manufacturers that do plastic like Warlord Games (Gates of Antares), Wyrd (Malifaux, and thouse are arguably not 32mm), and Privateer Press (Warmachine).

Unless you mean literally the entire market is terrrible....in which case you'd be plain wrong, because basic economics says so.

As someone who is used to GWs prices, I'm sitting here thinking 'man, £25 per units is REALLY good value...'.

I'll be happy if that is the standard unit cost.

Also, you need to add the extra cost of licensing, so Star Wars stuff is going to cost quite a bit more than Rune Wars.

10 hours ago, Zeelobby said:

Dude. At $25 a unit I'd cry with joy. Having played GW games for years that's like nothing. And RW minis are pretty dang good for that price. Id hope they don't sacrifice quality or pace to accommodate dirt cheap prices. Full steam ahead!

I mentioned Legion to a 40k player and he asked how much the core set was... "$90. Plus, if we each buy a box and swap armies, we get more or less full armies for $90 each." His response...

"Oh, so it's basically free?"

Gotta love 40k pricing.

13 minutes ago, KrisWall said:

I mentioned Legion to a 40k player and he asked how much the core set was... "$90. Plus, if we each buy a box and swap armies, we get more or less full armies for $90 each." His response...

"Oh, so it's basically free?"

Gotta love 40k pricing.

LoL. Yeah. I mean their new primarch character (Mortarion) is $140 and probably only makes up 1/4th of a normal list. I mean it's a big model with lots of detail, but ****.

I'd go as far to say that at $25 a unit, SW:L would be cheaper than a lot of current tabletop games. Having played a lot of Warmachine/Hordes lately, you drop way more money coming up with a 2 list pairing. Even Warpath would be comparatively expensive, and that's from Mantic who are usually dirt cheap. The only systems that still may be cheaper would be Malifaux, Infinity, Bushido, etc. But those are all 5-10 model squad based tabletop games. Which is a different scale.

I have faith in FFG providing decent prices. They won't be dirt cheap, but they have solid production quality so I wouldn't expect them to be.

1 hour ago, Zeelobby said:

LoL. Yeah. I mean their new primarch character (Mortarion) is $140 and probably only makes up 1/4th of a normal list.

That doesn't bother me as much as the $35 for a Primaris Librarian, Captain, Chaplin or Apothecary... $35 for a single human sized model? WTH???

Worse part is lots of people in the 40k community actually defend them over it, pointing out the cost of the mold and that you'll only buy one. I mean it's like someone getting abused by their spouse and then defending the creep... Which I know happens but the comparison is disturbingly app.

I got the 8th rule book, and Imperial Index 1, and I was planning on dipping back into 40k again, just a small force of Death Watch, mostly because I still have about 750 points worth of them. I had honestly thought that GW had learned from the last few years... The rule book was relatively cheap ($60 for a nice hard cover full color thick book), the indexes were really cheap ($25), and even the codexes were coming down in price. Then they pull out these $35 models... I mean I can get a bolt action tank for less. Then legion comes along and quite frankly that killed my return to 40k.

35 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

That doesn't bother me as much as the $35 for a Primaris Librarian, Captain, Chaplin or Apothecary... $35 for a single human sized model? WTH???

Worse part is lots of people in the 40k community actually defend them over it, pointing out the cost of the mold and that you'll only buy one. I mean it's like someone getting abused by their spouse and then defending the creep... Which I know happens but the comparison is disturbingly app.

I got the 8th rule book, and Imperial Index 1, and I was planning on dipping back into 40k again, just a small force of Death Watch, mostly because I still have about 750 points worth of them. I had honestly thought that GW had learned from the last few years... The rule book was relatively cheap ($60 for a nice hard cover full color thick book), the indexes were really cheap ($25), and even the codexes were coming down in price. Then they pull out these $35 models... I mean I can get a bolt action tank for less. Then legion comes along and quite frankly that killed my return to 40k.

Yeah. Sadly Ive played 40K through the pitfall of 6th and 7th (5th was one of my favorite editions, wound allocation being the only big issue). Prices have definitely gotten crazy. Somehow they still make money off them though.

With 40K you buy a ton of miniatures with little tactical depth. I don't mind paying high prices for SWL minis as long as I'm buying some miniatures with good tactical depth. I'm glad it's not Warmachine/Hordes with single activations, facings, etc. As that game has really become a slog, but 40K has basically turned into even more of an RND fest, and I'm just not interested in playing that type of game anymore.

I'm sure they'll be priced somewhere in the middle, and I'm OK with that. I like pacing myself through games (especially when modeling and painting is involved) so I'm in no rush to buy two full tournament legal armies day 1.

Honestly you said the exact word right there, "pacing". My attempt at 40k was marred by never finishing my space marines, planning on painting All of a box before even buying anything else this time. And the pricing, which is quite reasonable imo, is still robust enough for a severely budgeted parent of four that it will be easy to view each box as a "treat", take my time and enjoy the hobby aspect to its fullest

I have not played 40K in many years. However, GW has a few things over FFG. First, they have a dedicated retail presence. Like the Apple Store they seem to have a B&M presence in every state and you can buy online and ship to those stores for free. The larger stores have a setup where you can buy a box, sit a paint station to build your model and paint it and then come back and play on their tables. FFG is at the mercy of independent retailers whose quality of service or offerings are questionable.

Second, GW has its own JIT manufacturing and logistic warehouse that has been written up in WSJ and London Times as being the most sophisticated operation in all of the UK and can be run with fewer than normal people. FFG has everything done in China and has to slow boat it in. With X-Wing many have been waiting 6 months+ for the return of the K-Wings to store shelves. You rarely seem more than a month before a GW is back in stock or between the store network stores can order from other stores.

Finally, FFG Customer Service and now Asmodee has been stellar and responsive to broken models or missing parts of which I have not seen any major complaints. However, FFG does not control QC and does not run its own operations like CMON so we will see how quality comes along with the miniatures. Runewars is very good so there is indication that this will too, but FFG does have a different setup than GW.

The 800lb elephant in the room is Disney and the Star Wars License. We know we have movies going out until at least 2019 and the Mouse is hoping to do some more one off spin off films after that, but long term what happens? GW owns their IP, FFG does not and the various license/contract issues has cause all kinds of fun with X-Wing. How will SW:L be impacted? Nobody knows, but FFG does not own the IP so where they go, what they do could be limited and some point. It is still early days, but, this is a concern. 40K has been going along for 30years and through 8 rulesets. Not sure if we will see 10yrs with SW:L.

25 minutes ago, TurboCooler said:

I have not played 40K in many years. However, GW has a few things over FFG. First, they have a dedicated retail presence. Like the Apple Store they seem to have a B&M presence in every state and you can buy online and ship to those stores for free. The larger stores have a setup where you can buy a box, sit a paint station to build your model and paint it and then come back and play on their tables. FFG is at the mercy of independent retailers whose quality of service or offerings are questionable.

Second, GW has its own JIT manufacturing and logistic warehouse that has been written up in WSJ and London Times as being the most sophisticated operation in all of the UK and can be run with fewer than normal people. FFG has everything done in China and has to slow boat it in. With X-Wing many have been waiting 6 months+ for the return of the K-Wings to store shelves. You rarely seem more than a month before a GW is back in stock or between the store network stores can order from other stores.

Finally, FFG Customer Service and now Asmodee has been stellar and responsive to broken models or missing parts of which I have not seen any major complaints. However, FFG does not control QC and does not run its own operations like CMON so we will see how quality comes along with the miniatures. Runewars is very good so there is indication that this will too, but FFG does have a different setup than GW.

The 800lb elephant in the room is Disney and the Star Wars License. We know we have movies going out until at least 2019 and the Mouse is hoping to do some more one off spin off films after that, but long term what happens? GW owns their IP, FFG does not and the various license/contract issues has cause all kinds of fun with X-Wing. How will SW:L be impacted? Nobody knows, but FFG does not own the IP so where they go, what they do could be limited and some point. It is still early days, but, this is a concern. 40K has been going along for 30years and through 8 rulesets. Not sure if we will see 10yrs with SW:L.

Well. Most GW stores have shut down, at least in the US (there is now only one locally in my state when there used to be 5, and it's only open half the week). Only several of their stores have remained profitable (their online sales well outdo their store sales). Now most states have one in a major city, which makes it difficult for many players to get to. FFG Star Wars games have also made FLGS a fair bit of profit, at least the ones locally. Destiny, X-Wing, Armada, etc. They sell tons of it every day.

It is true that GW does have efficient stocking. They've also been around for 30+ years, and have been almost the sole provider of tabletop gaming for 15 of them. FFG has done pretty well imo, considering the relative newness of their fame (until X-Wing they were more known for board games than anything else). Still, their distribution, and manufacturing, will cost them. That said, GW manufacturing in the UK doesn't really save them either. It makes their releases more reliable, but the overall cost of production is higher than in China, especially since they still distribute globally.

I do agree that SW licensing could definitely be an issue. At the same time, it's extremely difficult for now IPs in tabletop gaming to do well, especially in Sci-Fi (Beyond the Gate of Antares, Warpath, DZC, etc.). GW is so large they will probably never go away, unless bought out and gutted by an investor (which would never happen as they're quite comfortable right now printing plastic money). But the only way I could see SWL not succeeding is if Disney kills it, and I'm not sure why they would. I don't think FFG really minds sticking to the IP restrictions as long as they have new products to develop and sell, and as I said before, SW has given them way more recognition then they previously had. If anything Disney has been significantly profitable with it's IPs as of late, and I don't see that slowing down anytime soon. One thing GW definitely lacks is a mass-public entertainment footing that SWL will have right out of the gate. The only thing that could really bring about an early demise of SWL is if the upcoming SW movies tank hard, but the fact that VII received such acclaim, especially with younger generations, makes me feel like their pretty secure there.

It is possible that FFG also release a smaller scale more "legion" sized game for the IP, in which case I could definitely see that killing off SWL.

2 minutes ago, Zeelobby said:

GW is so large they will probably never go away, unless bought out and gutted by an investor (which would never happen as they're quite comfortable right now printing plastic money).

I dunno, GW was actually in serious risk of going under only a year or so ago. They've made some serious improvements in the last year or so with AoS and 8th edition, plus bringing back things like BloodBowl, Necromunda and the rest. But they clearly haven't completely accepted the fact that they are not the only game in town any longer. The pricing on their books and such for 8th is better, but $35 models is the completely wrong way to go and makes me think they didn't really get it.

So once the honeymoon is over with 8th, I'm not sure what's going to happen.

10 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

I dunno, GW was actually in serious risk of going under only a year or so ago. They've made some serious improvements in the last year or so with AoS and 8th edition, plus bringing back things like BloodBowl, Necromunda and the rest. But they clearly haven't completely accepted the fact that they are not the only game in town any longer. The pricing on their books and such for 8th is better, but $35 models is the completely wrong way to go and makes me think they didn't really get it.

So once the honeymoon is over with 8th, I'm not sure what's going to happen.

According to commentators on the internet they were "going under". But that's been a constant exaggeration. I know some ex higher-ups at GW (who now are in CXO positions at other gaming companies) and there is no way GW was even close to going under. Their cash reserves alone could stem the bleed for at least 5 years. They could sell off their manufacturer equipment and downsize and stay profitable for another 10 after that. They could reduce prices and have sales and survive for several years beyond that. By comparison to other individual gaming companies, they're massive. Like mountains next to mole hills. It'd most likely take a natural disaster for them to ever go under. It's pretty easy to bring up their financial reports for the past 10 years, and while they were slowly bleeding profits, it was less than a 5% loss most times (and their past 3 reports have been in the black). People of course saw this and went "GW is dying!" (mostly people who simply didn't like GW), just like people have been saying that Nintendo is dying (another company who also has massive financial reserves).

Now I'm not saying that there couldn't suddenly be some massive exodus of GW players, or that England couldn't sink below the sea or something, but it'd have to be huge. Most of their online echo chambers simply dwarf the critical ones. If anything they'd likely get bought out by other investors, and keep doing what they're doing. Like I said, there is the rare chance that someone buys them out, and just liquidates them, but it won't be their misstep, but will be to the profit of someone who never cared about gaming.

And I'm saying all of this not being a huge fan of GW at all, but they're definitely going nowhere for a long long time.

GW will be fine. 8th is making them money hand over fist, and AoS is now comfortably profitable.

People have been saying they'll go bust for years, and they held on. They are massively healthier now than they have been for a long time.

4 minutes ago, Extropia said:

GW will be fine. 8th is making them money hand over fist, and AoS is now comfortably profitable.

People have been saying they'll go bust for years, and they held on. They are massively healthier now than they have been for a long time.

It'll be interesting to see how long AoS remains profitable. They were "happy with the numbers" back when people were leaving 40K to play the "more reasonable" AoS. Now that 8th is bringing them back, I wouldn't be shocked if development slows on AoS significantly to remain profitable.

To be honest, they've never really been un-healthy. The biggest risk they've taken is being bought up by investing groups that may not see games as priority. Their peak of popularity was definitely back in the late 1990s/early 2000s, but even during their 8ish years of recent gradual slide (during their whole "we're a model first, gaming second" phase), they've still had significant sales.

That said, they've done more to hurt their products then they ever have before recently. 8th edition killed Warhammer Fantasy, and 6th and 7th killed 40K. While I'm hoping AoS and 8th 40K will redeem them, I'm not sure how many good game developers they actually have left. At least looking at 8th so far, they seem pretty dependent on the community finding the problems for them, and that only lasts so long (I'm not sure they playtested 8th at all...).

True. Their sales were struggling, but due to some savvy cost cutting and international closures their bottomline never really got too painful. Sales are now far from struggling, and they are looking strong.

I too am curious about AoS, since 8th is close to "40K AoS" in rules.