On 9/6/2017 at 4:19 AM, Bonza said:

Hmmm...... At their height, I believe that Palp builds won every system open in the year bar 2 (One being triple jumps, the other was a Pattiswarm). Ryad was the most popular pilot for some time. Palp may not have been massively broken (At least not the same extent that Pre-Nerf Parattani was), but the Palp ace archetype blocked a lot of ships from entering the meta, which was not a good thing.

As an Imperial player, I like the nerfs. I'm just hoping that they can bring scum and rebels down to par, rather than giving us another broken crutch.

2016 System Open Results:

Hoth: Triple Jumps

Jakku: Palp Aces (Soontir/Inky/Palp)

Endor: Imperial A-Holes (OL/Inky/Wampa/Palp)

Yavin: Pattiswarm

Tattooine: Dengar/Tel lol ?

Naboo: Whisper/Oicunn (Oicunn did have Palp)

Kashyyyk: Triple Jumps (6 Jumps on the table for that final lol)

Lothal: Triple Jumps

So Palp was in 3/8 Winner's List. Jumpmasters were in 4/8. Tie Swarm was in 1/8.

2017 System Open Results

Mustafar: Parattani

Kashyyyk: Parattani

Yavin: Parattani

Lothal: Palp Defenders

Endor: Parattani

Naboo: Miranda/Biggs/Stresshog

Tattooine: Triple Jumps

Hoth: Miranda/Biggs/Stresshog

Palp showed up in 1/8 Winner's Squads.

2 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

2016 System Open Results:

Hoth: Triple Jumps

Jakku: Palp Aces (Soontir/Inky/Palp)

Endor: Imperial A-Holes (OL/Inky/Wampa/Palp)

Yavin: Pattiswarm

Tattooine: Dengar/Tel lol ?

Naboo: Whisper/Oicunn (Oicunn did have Palp)

Kashyyyk: Triple Jumps (6 Jumps on the table for that final lol)

Lothal: Triple Jumps

So Palp was in 3/8 Winner's List. Jumpmasters were in 4/8. Tie Swarm was in 1/8.

How did they let the TIE swarm get by without a nerf?

4 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

2016 System Open Results:

Hoth: Triple Jumps

Jakku: Palp Aces (Soontir/Inky/Palp)

Endor: Imperial A-Holes (OL/Inky/Wampa/Palp)

Yavin: Pattiswarm

Tattooine: Dengar/Tel lol ?

Naboo: Whisper/Oicunn (Oicunn did have Palp)

Kashyyyk: Triple Jumps (6 Jumps on the table for that final lol)

Lothal: Triple Jumps

So Palp was in 3/8 Winner's List. Jumpmasters were in 4/8. Tie Swarm was in 1/8.

I stand corrected

1 minute ago, Bonza said:

I stand corrected

Also updated to show 2017 Results

Yeah, thank God FFG nerfed Palp so hard. Wouldn't want to interrupt the Jumpmaster Scum domination of the game.

1 hour ago, Arma Quattro said:

I won 7 tournaments back then using the Lambda to either block enemy maneuvers or to deal some fatal blows.

sticking to just Soontir or Vader meant extremely long matches sometimes.

Yeah, using the shuttle always had been essential, the issue is that with more and more releases the shuttle became less and less useful. A standard manaroo build was 32 points and about twice as effective as good old palpatine, while offering comparable damage output and much, much better blocking options, extra agility and the option of extra burst damage for 3 points, the price of a plasma torpedo with guidance chips, a free target lock on a green move and a free focus even on a block, meaning you could intentionally run into a block, still deal 4 reliable hits, all that for 6 points over ;-)

The lambda at the other hand just melts, no arc dodging potential because the dial is so limited, no defensive potential because of just 1 agi dice, okish hp which can still melt against a lot of lists in a single turn. Palpatine becomes significant worse if he ads whole game just two evades to the lambda and gets removed afterwards from the board. As this makes him and his shuttle a basically overpriced biggs. Now Kylo Ren on that shuttle at the other hand. 24 points is significant price decrease and your opponent still needs to focus the shuttle down first.

On 9/5/2017 at 8:51 PM, PT106 said:

I never stated that. What I stated is that the absence of Palp nerf would lead to nerfing of the future Imperial ships so they wouldn't be too powerful with Palpatine on the board.

This is a very strange concern, as there's not a ship that becomes more powerful because Palpatine is on board, since Palpatine doesn't affect the ship he's equipped to. And I don't think they will ever make a Palp carrier more suitable than the Lambda (or they wouldn't have prevented him from boarding the TIE Shuttle). So what's the fear there?

Quote

Three? Really? Tie/SF, Tie Defender, Decimator, Tie Advanced, Tie/AP, Tie/FO, Tie Bomber, Lambda shuttle, Tie Agressor. Should be more then three.

As of today, meta-wing.com shows the following Imperial archetypes in a meaningful position: Aggressor+SF+Advanced (#14), Decimator+Phantom (#18), Decimator+SF (#20), 4x Aggressors (#23, and let me just say, bleurgh). So that's five ships. Of course if you dig deep enough, you'll even find people who brought the Punisher to some tournament (I did!), but that's irrelevant, these are the ships featuring in the meta with a significant frequency and/or achieving significant results. And one of these five didn't even exist at the time of the nerf, so you can't say it wasn't played, in fact 4x Aggressors was certainly going to be played regardless as it's an auto-archetype (and let me reiterate: bleurgh).

Saying there's only three was hyperbolic, but five isn't much more encouraging (the archetypes are just three, anyway). Back in the Palp era you could find at least double that amount (not just because of Palp, of course, but still). Including Deci+Something, which is now probably the longest-lasting competitive archetype in Empire history.

1 hour ago, Kumagoro said:

This is a very strange concern, as there's not a ship that becomes more powerful because Palpatine is on board, since Palpatine doesn't affect the ship he's equipped to. And I don't think they will ever make a Palp carrier more suitable than the Lambda (or they wouldn't have prevented him from boarding the TIE Shuttle). So what's the fear there?

Palp affects all Imperial ships in the squad no matter what ship he's equipped to ( the same way the presence of Biggs in the squad affects all Rebel ships). So whenever a new Imperial ship is designed in would needs to be debuffed to avoid "if Palp is present this ship can't be hit no matter what opponent does" effect.

1 hour ago, Kumagoro said:

As of today, meta-wing.com shows the following Imperial archetypes in a meaningful position: Aggressor+SF+Advanced (#14), Decimator+Phantom (#18), Decimator+SF (#20), 4x Aggressors (#23, and let me just say, bleurgh). So that's five ships. Of course if you dig deep enough, you'll even find people who brought the Punisher to some tournament (I did!), but that's irrelevant, these are the ships featuring in the meta with a significant frequency and/or achieving significant results. And one of these five didn't even exist at the time of the nerf, so you can't say it wasn't played, in fact 4x Aggressors was certainly going to be played regardless as it's an auto-archetype (and let me reiterate: bleurgh).

I don't think meta-wing is a good source of archetypes (at least as far as Imperials are concerned). The reason is the following - Imperials do have more interchangeable aces/ships in the same points bracket, so the archetypes need to be defined more liberally, for example: PS 10+ Cruise aces, QD+Vessery+1, Chiraneau+1 etc. Therefore I used a different metric and selected Imperial ships that were making 2nd day cut at Gencon/Nationals as I feel it's a better metric if we're discussing viability of individual Imperial ships.

1 hour ago, Kumagoro said:

As of today, meta-wing.com shows the following Imperial archetypes in a meaningful position:

I would be careful about meta-wing, it oddly heavily us centric and took for example months to catch up on the attani hype in europe as well.
Now in the list it self seems mostly correct, maybe with a missing TIE-Striker/Defender/FO ... a forget it, the list doesn't look to hot, considering that it basically misses half of the recently comeback of three ships. And I would not be surprised if something starts bringing the inquisitor as well, a range 1 ship which can slow roll in from range 3 and do solid damage ain't that bad as third ship either.

Still at the very least we see defenders, FOs oh and for christ's sake the Lambda is back as Kylo Ren carrier for imperial alpha strike lists.

Maybe make Tie/D -2 points as well while they're at it. Or keep the same points and add a hull or shield?

The Palp nerf is why I didn't buy the epic scum ship. No need spending that much money just to have them screw with the very reason I spent the money in the first place.

1 hour ago, ozmodon said:

The Palp nerf is why I didn't buy the epic scum ship. No need spending that much money just to have them screw with the very reason I spent the money in the first place.

The raider is a bad *** ship if you are an imperial fan, treat yourself to the model, **** palp.

I still from start to finish say the palp nerf was completely unnecessary in the form they chose. A range restriction would have been plenty and encourage formation flying in an imp squad, crazy to use a tactic they really do employ I know.