13 hours ago, Rakky Wistol said:

Outside of VI+ACD Whisper and new experiements with PS 11 alpha strike Vader what on that list is getting used?

lambdas: palp carriers only. Pretty much ever. Vader crew buzzsaws a little before that. Never been updated.

Tie fighter: has fallen so far down the ranks of efficiency that the swarm is dead. Never been updated.

Firespray: imperial version has been a joke since release. Wave 2 saw some use. Never been updated.

Interceptor: Soontir and Canor are dead. Even before the powercreep no other interceptors were used. Probably the worst "Aces Pack" ever.

Advanced: Vader is a very small light in the dark and suffers the same as Soontir, Biggs, and Corran- Almost too good so no other pilots are used and the ship as a whole can't get an easy fix at the risk of breaking them.

phantom: ACD is still probably the worst design choice in the faction. VI is required to make it functional and so powerful there really is no other option. I would never suggest a reversal of the Phantom nerf but would love new pilots and options to build a competitive (even tier 2 build) phantom that didn't start with 2 of my slots full already.

US Nationals did see the Lambda, as Capt. Yorr with Kylo as crew, together with Cruising Vader+Quickdraw, which I thought interesting.

27 minutes ago, Pretty Green said:

Totally skews store-level meta? Isn´t that a bit exaggeration, as not that many Palpatine builds made it to the top? And now there are way better Rebel and Scum builds than there were in 2016 before the nerf.

I get that maybe there were too much of the same builds, but the nerf was still too hard, especially when you look at the ships which have been released after it. Sorry that your local scene used only Palpatine builds, but that was not the case everywhere. And Palpatine was certainly not overpowered. Very good, but not broken. But same can be said about lots of builds. Some are even broken, but not Imperials.

Can't confirm either. My SCs were full with Triple Defenders, Dengar, Mindlink, Triple Jumpmasters and occasional commonwealth defenders. I was basically the only Palp Aces player and I switched myself to old man rau the day they showed us this beautiful fang fighter dial. The biggest irony is that Palp Aces themselves only became so dominant because of triple scouts. So if Knave's local meta had so many Palp Aces, but no Dengarroo nor TorpScouts than the usual Rebel Regen list would have worked just fine and the whole idea of imperial aces as strong list would have collapsed.

14 hours ago, Rakky Wistol said:

phantom: ACD is still probably the worst design choice in the faction. VI is required to make it functional and so powerful there really is no other option. I would never suggest a reversal of the Phantom nerf but would love new pilots and options to build a competitive (even tier 2 build) phantom that didn't start with 2 of my slots full already.

Odd as it sounds, I'd really, really like them to do a repaints expansion based on the LEGO shows - because Tracker 1 (totally-not-a-TIE-phantom) and Jek-14's Stealth Starfighter (totally-not-an-e-wing) could both work well.

Tracker-1 is piloted by M-OC, an imperial droid assassin/bounty hunter type who customises the ship and himself, suggesting either multiple modifications or the ability to swap them mid-game. A Phantom will always default to advanced cloak....unless it could pack stygium particle accelerative and lightweight frame, which might be more of a competitor.

2 hours ago, Pretty Green said:

Isn´t that a bit exaggeration, as not that many Palpatine builds made it to the top? And now there are way better Rebel and Scum builds than there were in 2016 before the nerf.

I get that maybe there were too much of the same builds, but the nerf was still too hard, especially when you look at the ships which have been released after it. Sorry that your local scene used only Palpatine builds, but that was not the case everywhere. And Palpatine was certainly not overpowered. Very good, but not broken. But same can be said about lots of builds. Some are even broken, but not Imperials.

Hmmm...... At their height, I believe that Palp builds won every system open in the year bar 2 (One being triple jumps, the other was a Pattiswarm). Ryad was the most popular pilot for some time. Palp may not have been massively broken (At least not the same extent that Pre-Nerf Parattani was), but the Palp ace archetype blocked a lot of ships from entering the meta, which was not a good thing.

As an Imperial player, I like the nerfs. I'm just hoping that they can bring scum and rebels down to par, rather than giving us another broken crutch.

17 minutes ago, Bonza said:

...but the Palp ace archetype blocked a lot of ships from entering the meta, which was not a good thing.

...did it though? Did it really? Certainly not form the Imperial point of view, at least.

I mean, the go-to builds were obviously Palpmobile + Inquisitor, Omega Leader, Wampa or Commonwealth Defenders (Palpmobile, Ryad, Vessery), but you also saw (in varying numbers) Soontir, Turr, Carnor, Darth, Whisper, Echo...

...very few of which appear in the current meta.

Now, there are contributing reasons for this (...mainly Sabine/Bombs in general), but the Palp nerf immediately removed a lot of these Imperial pilots from the table.

41 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

...did it though? Did it really? Certainly not form the Imperial point of view, at least.

I mean, the go-to builds were obviously Palpmobile + Inquisitor, Omega Leader, Wampa or Commonwealth Defenders (Palpmobile, Ryad, Vessery), but you also saw (in varying numbers) Soontir, Turr, Carnor, Darth, Whisper, Echo...

...very few of which appear in the current meta.

Now, there are contributing reasons for this (...mainly Sabine/Bombs in general), but the Palp nerf immediately removed a lot of these Imperial pilots from the table.

Excellent points.

3 hours ago, Sciencius said:

US Nationals did see the Lambda, as Capt. Yorr with Kylo as crew, together with Cruising Vader+Quickdraw, which I thought interesting.

As a long time albino space bison driver I approve. That dial is brutal. Almost fragile- if you make a wrong move you aren't dead but you are mostly just taking up space. Sadly that the Imperial problem- one mistAke and it's all over.

A few decent 0-1ptimperial crew wouldby hurt either. Other 2 keep getting them.

18 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:

Sadly that the Imperial problem- one mistAke and it's all over.

Never fear Rakky. It won't be long before you can fly the Gunboat.

Can Palp change one dice to an evade, per the normal rules, if you don't have any defense dice?

This is also a great thread to say something about nothing, IMO.

FAQ 4.3.2 was a "too little, too late" kinda thing that came from FFG and most still can't understand their apparent lack of understanding. Sure, the Zuckuss and X7 nerfs can be seen as useful in the balance, but the long-standing OP they missed is astounding. More to the point, Palp was already on the decline, and in the current escalation meta, he's certainly not OP in his original format anymore. That nerf made little sense then, and no sense now, save it forced tourney Imp lists to run ships other than the Lambda.

A long winded way to say, yeah, let them reverse that nerf, it'll mean little in the meta, very little.

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

...did it though? Did it really? Certainly not form the Imperial point of view, at least.

I mean, the go-to builds were obviously Palpmobile + Inquisitor, Omega Leader, Wampa or Commonwealth Defenders (Palpmobile, Ryad, Vessery), but you also saw (in varying numbers) Soontir, Turr, Carnor, Darth, Whisper, Echo...

...very few of which appear in the current meta.

Now, there are contributing reasons for this (...mainly Sabine/Bombs in general), but the Palp nerf immediately removed a lot of these Imperial pilots from the table.

Good points. X7's were a big contributor to the demise of aces as well. Asaj, too.

I don't recall that meta being especially diverse though. They were the list of the time, and it would be hard to argue that they didn't counter a lot of archetypes directly - as they themselves now find themselves countered.

And yes, it really hurts to be an Imperial player at the moment. It sucks that we don't have more lists/ships that we can bring. But I think back to the time when Rebel lists were all but gone amid a sea of Jumpmasters and Lambda shuttles, or when Brobots were all that scum had. And with that in mind, I saddle up my 2 SF's + whichever 3rd ship I hope will make the difference, and try one more time to get the win.

You have a good argument though, its never nice to see a swathe of ships and pilots disappear.

Palpatine is WAAAAYYYYY too powerful: The ability to ADD a damage result (and not even the target but another target within R1!) for only 2 points and 1 crew slot, is simply CRAZY good!

No, if Palpatine had been a little more like Sabine with the ability to CHANGE a rolled dice for 8 points and 2 crew slot , that would be kind of expensive.. as very few ships are able to field her (she is one fat lady or perhaps it is all the bombs she is carrying).

Wait!?!

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

Never fear Rakky. It won't be long before you can fly the Gunboat.

As much as I dislike that ship it may be our only hope. I'll buy one and fly one...but it's no swarm or interceptor...

31 minutes ago, Sciencius said:

Palpatine is WAAAAYYYYY too powerful: The ability to ADD a damage result (and not even the target but another target within R1!) for only 2 points and 1 crew slot, is simply CRAZY good!

No, if Palpatine had been a little more like Sabine with the ability to CHANGE a rolled dice for 8 points and 2 crew slot , that would be kind of expensive.. as very few ships are able to field her (she is one fat lady or perhaps it is all the bombs she is carrying).

Wait!?!

This made me spit out coffee. Yeah comparing cards like Sabine to Palp is pretty hilarious. Yeah no favoritism here guys, move along!

36 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:

As much as I dislike that ship it may be our only hope. I'll buy one and fly one...but it's no swarm or interceptor...

Ah, Interceptor.......lament, lament, lament.

I was thinking just yesterday that a flight of five Interceptors might do OK, especially against FSR 2, because I'm an idiot like that:

5x Alpha Squadron Pilot (18), Targeting Computer (2), Ship total (20) each.

57 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:

...it's no swarm or interceptor...

It's not meant to be. It's meant to be the big, juicy, dangerous brick of health that your opponent can't ignore, that lets your TIEs and Interceptors freely move into flanking positions. Kind of like a Decimator, only cheaper and expendable.

Soontir: "OK Rho Squadron pilots, let me brief you on Operation Human Shield..."

1 hour ago, Sciencius said:

Wait!?!

Don't forget Palp gives you a Bomb slot as well, even if your ship is normally incapable of carrying them...

I'm glad the /x7 has been reigned in a bit because you actually have a choice between the two titles. After the /x7 change, I see a lot more defenders carrying cannons. Diversity is a good thing. I can't speak to competitive events, but I've had good success with mixed squads.

4 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

It's not meant to be. It's meant to be the big, juicy, dangerous brick of health that your opponent can't ignore, that lets your TIEs and Interceptors freely move into flanking positions. Kind of like a Decimator, only cheaper and expendable.

Soontir: "OK Rho Squadron pilots, let me brief you on Operation Human Shield..."

If it's more dangerous and more health and less ignorable AND similarity costed it will certainly be better... sounds like it would also be broken.

Why can't the most broken ships be iconic ones? Xwing and awing and MF vs. tie fighter and interceptor and shuttle sounds great.

13 hours ago, Bonza said:

Hmmm...... At their height, I believe that Palp builds won every system open in the year bar 2 (One being triple jumps, the other was a Pattiswarm). Ryad was the most popular pilot for some time. Palp may not have been massively broken (At least not the same extent that Pre-Nerf Parattani was), but the Palp ace archetype blocked a lot of ships from entering the meta, which was not a good thing.

As an Imperial player, I like the nerfs. I'm just hoping that they can bring scum and rebels down to par, rather than giving us another broken crutch.

Correct me if I am wrong. But they WON only 2.

8 hours ago, xstormtrooperx said:

Correct me if I am wrong. But they WON only 2.

I'd be prepared to eat humble pie if thats the case. I recall one win from Triple Jumps (Hoth) and one from the Pattiswarm (Yavin). I feel like the others were palp related lists, but I'd be happy to be wrong.

19 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

save it forced tourney Imp lists to run ships other than the Lambda.

The biggest irony here is that it turned out that the Lambda is still right imperial crew carrier, because Yorr-Kylo seems to be a top choice, thanks to Nymm, PS wars being back and Cruise Missiles helping Vader plenty, especially when he can do a K-Turn without having to deal with stress.

Palp is still really good because it's still a guarantee, not only that theres no range limitation. 2 crew slot price isn't really a huge price to pay considering Imperials don't have any super awesome crew (aside from Kylo) that are limited to their faction.

Back before the nerf I saw Palp EVERYWHERE in store championships. Which while that's not really a super bad thing, it's a good card, a safe card, it limits what people are willing to bring to tournaments. Most people are there to have fun, but deep down they would prefer to win, and are more willing to bring the safe lists that are proven to do better.

The Palp nerf was needed, and considering what else they could have done it's not too terrible.

1. You're still getting that guarantee. Think of it this way, without PtL, you have to decide whether to take an evade action or a focus with a TIE Fighter, on one hand you may need the focus token if you roll all eyeballs on your evade dice, or you might need the evade token if you get that one blank that otherwise would have saved you. It requires some foresight and some luck of the dice. Palpatine pre nerf removed the uncertainty, because you could evade and save palpatine for after the roll to determine whether you needed him or not. With how he is now, he is much like a focus/evade token that requires you to weigh whether you want to use him or not before rolling, much in the same way of determining whether you focus or evade, and that makes him more balanced.

2. It's not the worst nerf they could have done. I knew some kind of nerf for X7s and Palpatine was coming, and I was dreading the range restriction or some other nerf that would just ruin his card in the same way Manaroo was made worthless.

3. I think it's opened up the lists people are more willing to run. Before, people (myself included) were just trying to find new ways to run other ships with the palpmobile, now we have found other ships to fly and other lists to dominate with.

4. I've used the new Palp, and he's still really good. Combined with Kylo Ren, RAC and picking blinded pilot every time, you can create a very frustrating matchup against other opponents.

51 minutes ago, Warlon said:

1. You're still getting that guarantee.

Actually, no. I am not guaranteed anymore to get my damage avoidance out of Palpatine. I take him on my single evade dice lambda and I have a 1/3 chance that Palp does nothing. That is a 1/3 reduction of efficiency.
I take him on my ace and the efficiency goes further down the drain, iirc to a quarter of what it used to be.

Meanwhile the rebels get this guarantee with Lowhhrick on a solid ship no less, but with the R1 limitation. But they get a freaking reinforce token on the same time on the source of the effect. You know, if they would have added the reinforced action to the Lambda Shuttle while implementing the Palp nerf, I would be fine with it and actually helping with the reason why Palp was not played anymore anyway, on top making Palp less frustrating and all. But the way they implemented the Palpatine changes? That was purely a crowd pleaser for all those whiners who bitched about Palpatine since Wave 7.

It still an ok change to the card, the problem is that the Lambda shuttle now is just overpriced as a ride for the diminished Sith Lord. Now if he would be 1 crew slot instead … the fun we could have. ;-)

On 6/9/2017 at 0:49 AM, brownj23 said:

Agreed the good players used the shuttles gun, but then it can go down pretty quickly.

I won 7 tournaments back then using the Lambda to either block enemy maneuvers or to deal some fatal blows.

sticking to just Soontir or Vader meant extremely long matches sometimes.