4 hours ago, tsuruki said:

Shouldn't Bomblet generator always have been a bomb with 3-4 charges instead of infinite uses?

No, because then it wouldn't be the bomblet generator. A recharging mechanic like Arc Caster might have been more on point, especially since now the new Reload doesn't affect Bombs.

On 9/5/2017 at 8:09 AM, gamblertuba said:

Scurgg pilot should not have EPT slot. VI Nym is major culprit.

Don't forget TLT as well. Bombs are great but rarely win games outright. TLT is strong but there is counterplay. Bombs and TLT together on Miranda and Nym? Good luck y'all.

Last time I played against miranda/nym my opponent conceded after the first round of combat cause he had no shot at winning

55 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

And again, all people who claim that VI Nym is the offender need to keep in mind that an EPT slot usually is worth 1 point and one point pilot skill is considered by FFG to be worth one point. FFG obvious wanted Nym at PS10, so no EPT and him directly at PS10 would change nothing, outside that it would would be hated by people who like star wars lore, so people like me. ;-)

Furthermore, not having EPT slots is a direct way into obsolescence when the next great card combo arises. The issue is not that the new bombers have EPTs, the issue is that the TIE Interdictors and Y-Wings don't.

But compared to it's counterparts (the Punisher and the K-wing), it's the only one with EPTs. Not having an EPT doesn't hold the K-Wing back, why would it hold the Scurrg back? IMO it would bring this card in line with other ships instead of making it an oft-complained about OP ship. At PS8 Nym is much more able to be dealt with, and doesn't seem near the monster that he is now (winning 4 nationals and counting).

If FFG wanted Nym at 10, they were WRONG .

As a side thought brought about the fact that the S&V Heavy Bomber has a EPT, however the Rebel and Imperial Heavy Bombers do not, made me wonder what would the Punisher look like if they released a title that altered the slots up a good bit. With the K-Wing, the obvious strength of Adv SLAM bombing and Miranda's pilot ability are the standouts, but looking at the possible options are also a case. The AdvSLAMing issue is about to be dealt with. The K-Wing swaps a System slot for Crew, which there are many more non-Epic Rebel or Neutral crew options available to use compared to relevant System slots. It also exchanges a missile slot for a turret slot, again, adding more options as there is only one upgrade that requires two missile slots. The Scurrg takes this even further, exchanging one Torp slot for an EPT, and allowing you to swap the Crew slot for both a Salvaged Astromech and a System slot. The EPT itself opens up a huge can of possible card combinations, and the ability to swap around all of these possible options compound to make a ship that is just lightyears ahead of capability than something like the Punisher, which is basically just given the option of a lot of ordinance, one System, and a slap on the back of the head.

The Scurrg is basically the epitome of the ComboWing Problem, honestly replacing the JM5K in this aspect. Which is scary; also ironic consider the leaked nerf to the JM5K was to remove slots.

I guess my TL;DR idea is:

What would be the effect on the Punisher with title that was Unique , required PS 4 or above (Black Eight, Deathrain, Redline), and removed one Torp slot, one Missile slot, and added one EPT and one Crew slot.

It would still lack the primary of the Scurrg and the turrets of both the Scurrg and K-Wing, but it would have a lot more options available for it, bringing it up a bit in the ComboWing world. It wouldn't be able to get over PS9 either, which is a good thing? /shrug

Would probably need to look at something giving an EPT to the K-Wing to maintain balance.

Or ya know, get rid of the EPT on the Scurrg instead of all this mess.

3 hours ago, eagletsi111 said:

You basically eliminate swarms if you do this.

I'm not so convinced this is true. I think half points actually help make sure everything is leaking MOV as much as a swarm does. They are probably still a little more susceptible simply by the virtue of having more targets to shoot, but at least they know they are getting good chunks of points at time too.

It would take some testing. If I ever get around to hosting a vassal tourney again, I might have to try out half point on all ships, or hull for hull scoring.

@Rinzler in a Tie You should have read the other posts

8 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

@Rinzler in a Tie You should have read the other posts

You only quoted me above, starting this whole chain.... You shouldn't quote one user to address other users' posts?

1 minute ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

You only quoted me above, starting this whole chain.... You shouldn't quote one user to address other user's posts?

You really should read the posts of the other users, including the ones you quote.

From the Above post, which you quoted and commented on:
"And again, all people who claim that VI Nym is the offender need to keep in mind that an EPT slot usually is worth 1 point and one point pilot skill is considered by FFG to be worth one point. "

Anyway, as I said, I don't care, so have fun with the circle …

Just now, SEApocalypse said:

You really should read the posts of the other users, including the ones you quote.

From the Above post, which you quoted and commented on:
"And again, all people who claim that VI Nym is the offender need to keep in mind that an EPT slot usually is worth 1 point and one point pilot skill is considered by FFG to be worth one point. "

Anyway, as I said, I don't care, so have fun with the circle …

If some third-party would kind enough to read through this little back and forth and tell me what is going on and why Seaworld targeted me for his EPT rant - that would be great ...
Otherwise I'll just assume Sea-splosion over here is off his rocker.

21 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

If some third-party would kind enough to read through this little back and forth and tell me what is going on and why Seaworld targeted me for his EPT rant - that would be great ...
Otherwise I'll just assume Sea-splosion over here is off his rocker.

He's just trolling people now. He's defending Nym in every thread he can find mention of him in. I guess he's A-OK with the Nym domination we've seen in the last 4 nationals. No idea why, other than he probably plays a lot of Nym.

46 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

I'm not so convinced this is true. I think half points actually help make sure everything is leaking MOV as much as a swarm does. They are probably still a little more susceptible simply by the virtue of having more targets to shoot, but at least they know they are getting good chunks of points at time too.

It would take some testing. If I ever get around to hosting a vassal tourney again, I might have to try out half point on all ships, or hull for hull scoring.

While flying swarms:

Mov: I have missed 1 place and 2nd place several times with a Swarm, in some cases by 7 points, and other by 3. I have missed the cut to top 16th, 6 times, 17, 18, 21, 22 ,24,28. I had the same record as others who made the cut, but gave up to much MOV with my swarm. By making them half points, I would give up even more.

Just now, Favoritism Flight Games said:

He's just trolling people now. He's defending Nym in every thread he can find mention of him in. I guess he's A-OK with the Nym domination we've seen in the last 4 nationals. No idea why, other than he probably plays a lot of Nym.

The dude knows the rules around here - he's got over 4k posts..
I suspect his account has been hacked by a X-Wing dev in an effort to spread support for their Scum/Rebel love-child.

7 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

The dude knows the rules around here - he's got over 4k posts..
I suspect his account has been hacked by a X-Wing dev in an effort to spread support for their Scum/Rebel love-child.

When a K-wing and a Jumpmaster love each other very much.....

1 minute ago, GrimmyV said:

When a K-wing and a Jumpmaster love each other very much.....

1 hour ago, eagletsi111 said:

While flying swarms:

Mov: I have missed 1 place and 2nd place several times with a Swarm, in some cases by 7 points, and other by 3. I have missed the cut to top 16th, 6 times, 17, 18, 21, 22 ,24,28. I had the same record as others who made the cut, but gave up to much MOV with my swarm. By making them half points, I would give up even more.

Wouldn't a lot of the players finishing above you have lost a good amount more as well though? I still think it would be an interesting experiment to test it out in a live setting where everyone is abiding by the rule.

3 hours ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

But compared to it's counterparts (the Punisher and the K-wing), it's the only one with EPTs. Not having an EPT doesn't hold the K-Wing back, why would it hold the Scurrg back? IMO it would bring this card in line with other ships instead of making it an oft-complained about OP ship. At PS8 Nym is much more able to be dealt with, and doesn't seem near the monster that he is now (winning 4 nationals and counting).

If FFG wanted Nym at 10, they were WRONG .

On the other hand K-wing has the SLAM+Adv. SLAM combo to make it good.

What makes you think an EPT-less Scurrg would be the Scum K-Wing and not the Scum Punisher?

13 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

What makes you think an EPT-less Scurrg would be the Scum K-Wing and not the Scum Punisher?

Because it:

Still has an excellent dial. Still has an excellent upgrade bar (even without EPT, also systems slot + turret slot is GREAT). It still has solid pilot abilities (Nyms especially). It is still the toughest small base ship in the game. It still has a native barrel roll. It still has excellent synergies (like Nym + Genius). And even with all that, it's still better costed than a Punisher (seriously compare a base Punisher and a Base Scurrg and just look how much more you get comparatively).

Need me to go on?

33 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

Because it:

Still has an excellent dial. Still has an excellent upgrade bar (even without EPT, also systems slot + turret slot is GREAT). It still has solid pilot abilities (Nyms especially). It is still the toughest small base ship in the game. It still has a native barrel roll. It still has excellent synergies (like Nym + Genius). And even with all that, it's still better costed than a Punisher (seriously compare a base Punisher and a Base Scurrg and just look how much more you get comparatively).

Need me to go on?

Excellent dial, seriously? If the Scurrg has an 'excellent' dial then so so 80% of the ships in this game. At best it's on par with a t-70. Do you consider a t-70's dial 'excellent' as well?

Consider this:

-in what way is an EPT-less Nym NOT strictly worse than Miranda?

-In what way are generic EPT-less Scurrgs not strictly worse than Wardens (for bombing) or Syndicate Thugs (for turrets)?

PS: 'Scum Punisher' was somewhat a hyperbole. I don't think an EPT-less Scurrg would be terrible. Just not good enough to field competitively.

The reason the Punisher and k-wing don't have an EPT is simple; There isn't room on the card. Perhaps they should have cut a missile from the Punisher to make room for one, but it's too late for that. The Scurrg having an EPT is fine; Ships need a very, very good reason not to have one (The K-wing and VCX-100 are the only ships that really merit it in my mind, although the k-wing would be fine with one if FFG had not taken leave of their senses when they made Miranda). Nym being fantastic at using an already very powerful mechanic is the problem; If FFG had given him abilities that didn't involve bombs (They have sol sixxa for that. He could have been torpedo and missile based instead), or upped his price a few points to account for how powerful bombs have become, there wouldn't be a problem.

22 minutes ago, Squark said:

The reason the Punisher and k-wing don't have an EPT is simple; There isn't room on the card. Perhaps they should have cut a missile from the Punisher to make room for one, but it's too late for that.

The Scurrg breaks the upgrade bar limit via the Title and it was planned this way at it's release. This is no longer a feasable reason. They can give the ships titles to fix them.

46 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

Excellent dial, seriously? If the Scurrg has an 'excellent' dial then so so 80% of the ships in this game. At best it's on par with a t-70. Do you consider a t-70's dial 'excellent' as well?

It's an E-Wing dial with red 3 turns, and talons instead of Ks. Compare it to the K and Punisher- it's LIGHTYEARS better. And yes, on a heavy bomber like the scurrg, PS10 arc-dodging machine, I would consider the dial excellent. Compared to other ships of its types IT BLOWS EVERYTHING OUT OF THE WATER BY A LARGE MARGIN.

1 hour ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

It's an E-Wing dial with red 3 turns, and talons instead of Ks. Compare it to the K and Punisher- it's LIGHTYEARS better. And yes, on a heavy bomber like the scurrg, PS10 arc-dodging machine, I would consider the dial excellent. Compared to other ships of its types IT BLOWS EVERYTHING OUT OF THE WATER BY A LARGE MARGIN.

Qualifying your statements is helpful; There's no need to get upset when people misunderstand an unclear statement. That being said, SLAM has such a huge effect on the k-wing's mobility that it's hard to compare it to the Scurrg. I think most people would feel safe saying that the Scurrg has a better dial than the Y-wing, Tie Bomber, and the Tie Punisher, though. However, FFG were obviously going for a mixed role heavy assault ship like the B-wing (hence the 3 dice primary), and that comparison is a bit harder (The 2 k-turn makes or breaks the b-wing, and it's very matchup dependant). The upgrade slots and extra hit points push the Scurrg ahead, sure, but the B-wing is 2 points cheaper, and could honestly have been one point cheaper upon release according to Mathwing. Factor in the Karthakk's lower pilot skill, and you're paying 4 points more for the Scurgg than you would for a b-wing of the same pilot skill, and that seems reasonable. So I don't think the Scurrg's profile is a problem. Now, bombs do change the math a lot, but... well, someone needs to take a good, long look at bombs in X-wing and adjust everything. But since most of the bombs were already out in the wild, it seems more cost effective to try to release ships that will be balanced once bombs are fixed, as opposed to releasing weak ships that rely on bombs to compete, nerfing bombs, then buffing the now useless ships.

*Against the Tie Fighter, that is. It would have been better than the x-wing, but that was a problem that had been there since the core set hit).

1 hour ago, kris40k said:

The Scurrg breaks the upgrade bar limit via the Title and it was planned this way at it's release. This is no longer a feasable reason. They can give the ships titles to fix them.

Eh, I don't quite buy that. Yes, the Havoc title lets the ship equip additional upgrades, but it's a unique title that only one Scurrg can have in a list. Putting an effect you always intend for a ship to have on a unique upgrade card is... odd. And besides, FFG didn't start putting additional rules for ships on 0 point title cards until Wave 9, two waves after the Punisher hit. So I'm not sure how the Punisher could have gotten an EPT. Should it have one now? Certainly. I was never arguing against that- Just pointing out that a poor design choice in the past shouldn't hamper future releases.

Although, the simple solution now that I think about would have been to put EPTs on the Lok Revnant and Sol Sixxa, but not on Nym.

On 9/6/2017 at 9:45 AM, thespaceinvader said:

Nixing half points woudl be a great way to make point fortressing an even huger problem than it already is.

I'd like to see the falcon as a point fortress again. After all, point fortressing is **** near impossible against certain lists. Also the Scurrg can do that already since it is a ten health small base with access to all the upgrades. Allowing large ships to fortress is the real way for them to bring back bombers. I used a tie punisher with great success for a couple of years before the half point rule because death rain (or death fire if you need to reduce points) and a good old set of cluster mines is a good way to pop 5 damage on a falcon/decimator/ghost at the cost of an action. The reason I loved that old setup is that it added a new strategy of point bunkers, which forced new ideas against them. My friends started using plasma torpedo y wings and tie swarms again because of it. Now, every wave is whatever new bull scum gets vs biggs or a K wing.

Large Ship Point fortressing:

Because Dengar needs a buff

Scouts are probably the bigger problem. Breaking them up into thirds instead of sixths is a great way to give them a bigger competitive edge.