1 minute ago, Gadgetron said:

No, that's the rules of the game talking.

That's your interpretation of the rules talking...

You're feeling that the game is unwell is your own. That said, from the arguments presented your feeling is not shared by everybody. Games are games, they live and die. This one is still riding a high even if you feel it's already peaked. If you're unhappy, you move on to another game or find ways to enjoy it another way. It doesn't stop the living breathing cycle because you say it's dead though...

16 hours ago, Polaritie said:

I direct your attention to MtG.

Well every product has a life cycle. IT is just some products have a real long life cycle while others don't either because of obsolesce or mismanagement.

However as for games that have been discontinued many of them have been given a new lease on life by fans who want to pick up where corporate has dropped off. Take the old Decipher card games, the Star Trek one has a fan run site that is keeping it up to date. There is even an virtual update for the Star Wars one although it doesn't seem to be keeping up with the new movies (most likely because there are official CCGs out there).

http://www.trekcc.org/

So yes X-wing has a production cycle which will include the discontinued support from FFG, but as others have pointed out that could be decades from now. However even if it was discontinued by FFG (or Disney) it can still live on.

2 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

That's your interpretation of the rules talking...

You're feeling that the game is unwell is your own. That said, from the arguments presented your feeling is not shared by everybody. Games are games, they live and die. This one is still riding a high even if you feel it's already peaked. If you're unhappy, you move on to another game or find ways to enjoy it another way. It doesn't stop the living breathing cycle because you say it's dead though...

No, when the developers decide that the most maneuverable ships in the star wars universe are less maneuverable than cargo ships, that's not my interpretation, that's them deciding that Star Wars lore no longer means anything to them.

People are leaving this game, they aren't leaving so fast that its "dead" as you put it, and no where did I say it was dead, nor have I said its dying. It's losing playerbase, not dying, not going anywhere. The issue is if it CONTINUES to lose playerbase without replacing those leaving, THEN it will be dying, but its not at that stage right now.

Final note, people who leave the game, leave FFG, aren't necessarily going to have presence here, but those who strongly support it will, so don't think that this little echo chamber reflects accurately. Honestly, I'm only here because I play Armada and I'm looking forward to Legion. I'm REALLY hoping, that they are going to fix X-Wing so I can play this too.

Just now, Gadgetron said:

No, when the developers decide that the most maneuverable ships in the star wars universe are less maneuverable than cargo ships, that's not my interpretation, that's them deciding that Star Wars lore no longer means anything to them.

That is entirely your interpretation unless you're one of those developers. Which you are not, given your rants.

oops

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3

6 minutes ago, kris40k said:

My apologies for not being clear. What I was attempting to illustrate is that on one hand you have people that state something like, "The U-Wing is DOA", or a unusable, or a failed expansion. On the other hand, you have some people, like yourself, stating, "There is no support for Epic from FFG." My point is that people are missing the connection, you have to bring those hands together. The U-Wing, more specifically Bohdi Rook, was built for Epic it just is not specifically marked for Epic Only. There is support there in what is being released.

Maybe not as much as we would like, that's debatable and where we likely disagree, but I think that there is some support.

Agreed. And I think the venerable T-65 also fits that mold. Maybe the moral of the story here is that FFG needs to market/talk up those kind of ships in the light of what they are best at, thus appealing more to the casual player as well as "warning" tournament players that these are not meant to be "top tier" designs.

People playing for "entertainment only" would feel more included, and players playing to win would not scream "DOA"!

22 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Obi-wan, Yoda, Thrawn, Sato, constantine, Ackbar and Raddus don't really fit within the scope of X-wing. They are better suited to Armada. Doesn't mean i wouldn't like to have them in game as well, but they aren't exactly piloting ships. And how does DIY mean the game is dead?

Are we supposed to mindlessly just accept whatever we are given all the time and not get creative? After Dagobah dave's trench run i'm not sure we need FFG to give us handouts for every single space battle ever, because the player base is fine doing it on their own.

With Tarkin, Palps, and Jabba in the game, that horse has left the stable. Thus, I think those other characters should be given a role, at least from a narrative XWM POV. Likely, like Tarkin, they could/should only be found on Huge ships.

And I agree that DIY is a great thing, and there is a lot of awesome fan-based stuff available. My complaint is the seeming notion that, if I find the game lacking, I'm not allowed to ask FFG for it but should just DIY.

2 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

That is entirely your interpretation unless you're one of those developers. Which you are not, given your rants.

Is this a Star Wars game?

Is this a game that is based on Star Wars lore, canon, physics, and story?

If the answer to the above is yes, and the developers diverge greatly from the above, they have given up on Star Wars.

3 minutes ago, Gadgetron said:

Is this a Star Wars game?

Is this a game that is based on Star Wars lore, canon, physics, and story?

If the answer to the above is yes, and the developers diverge greatly from the above, they have given up on Star Wars.

It's their interpretation within the confines of the game design, which they have based on early game design models - such as Wings of War/Wings of Glory. It would appear that their interpretation of these freighters are based on the heavily modded light freighters that in Star Wars lore littered the galaxy. In legends materials, smugglers were routinely beating multiple TIEs as they completed their runs. Unfortunately, the game seems to match THAT far too perfectly.

Things I want to see before the bitter end:

• Campaign Box(es), with or without repaints.
• "Rebel Veterans" (X-Wing Blue Squadron pilots from Rogue One + Y-Wing aces) - with a reasonable title that brings the X-Wing back to the tables (without buffing Biggs).
• Partisan X-Wing and U-Wing (with Saw Guerrera and crew as pilots - and a fix for U-Wings, including "door gunner" crew).
• Hammerhead for epic - with either the ace Y-Wing or a Phoenix Squadron A-Wing.
• Imperial Light Cruiser (with Thrawn crew).
• N-1 Starfighter - with Leia as pilot.

Bonus:

• TIE Hunter.
• TIE Avenger.

16 minutes ago, Gadgetron said:

Is this a Star Wars game?

Is this a game that is based on Star Wars lore, canon, physics, and story?

If the answer to the above is yes, and the developers diverge greatly from the above, they have given up on Star Wars.

except even the very ship you hate fits within star wars lore, so checkmate. Game mechanics wise its broken, but lore wise it's accurate.

4 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

It's their interpretation within the confines of the game design, which they have based on early game design models - such as Wings of War/Wings of Glory. It would appear that their interpretation of these freighters are based on the heavily modded light freighters that in Star Wars lore littered the galaxy. In legends materials, smugglers were routinely beating multiple TIEs as they completed their runs. Unfortunately, the game seems to match THAT far too perfectly.

so fluff = gameplay for once? that's heavy.

24 minutes ago, Odanan said:

Things I want to see before the bitter end:

• Campaign Box(es), with or without repaints.
• "Rebel Veterans" (X-Wing Blue Squadron pilots from Rogue One + Y-Wing aces) - with a reasonable title that brings the X-Wing back to the tables (without buffing Biggs).
• Partisan X-Wing and U-Wing (with Saw Guerrera and crew as pilots - and a fix for U-Wings, including "door gunner" crew).
• Hammerhead for epic - with either the ace Y-Wing or a Phoenix Squadron A-Wing.
• Imperial Light Cruiser (with Thrawn crew).
• N-1 Starfighter - with Leia as pilot.

Bonus:

• TIE Hunter.
• TIE Avenger.

And NEBULON B!!!

25 minutes ago, Odanan said:

Things I want to see before the bitter end:

• Campaign Box(es), with or without repaints.
• "Rebel Veterans" (X-Wing Blue Squadron pilots from Rogue One + Y-Wing aces) - with a reasonable title that brings the X-Wing back to the tables (without buffing Biggs).
• Partisan X-Wing and U-Wing (with Saw Guerrera and crew as pilots - and a fix for U-Wings, including "door gunner" crew).
• Hammerhead for epic - with either the ace Y-Wing or a Phoenix Squadron A-Wing.
• Imperial Light Cruiser (with Thrawn crew).
• N-1 Starfighter - with Leia as pilot.

Bonus:

• TIE Hunter.
• TIE Avenger.

Being a Battletech guy, and seeing the game go on for decades, outliving both FASA and FanPro, I don't think the end is nigh. That said, I'd love to see most of these as well!

25 minutes ago, Odanan said:

Things I want to see before the bitter end:

• Campaign Box(es), with or without repaints.
• "Rebel Veterans" (X-Wing Blue Squadron pilots from Rogue One + Y-Wing aces) - with a reasonable title that brings the X-Wing back to the tables (without buffing Biggs).
• Partisan X-Wing and U-Wing (with Saw Guerrera and crew as pilots - and a fix for U-Wings, including "door gunner" crew).
• Hammerhead for epic - with either the ace Y-Wing or a Phoenix Squadron A-Wing.
• Imperial Light Cruiser (with Thrawn crew).
• N-1 Starfighter - with Leia as pilot.

Bonus:

• TIE Hunter.
• TIE Avenger.

If these showed up before the bitter end, likely there would not be one.

Also, I do seem to feel like there has been a shift in the Force. . .

The fun/jank/narrative/casual/dining room crowd seems to be a lot more in evidence than ever before.

26 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

It's their interpretation within the confines of the game design, which they have based on early game design models - such as Wings of War/Wings of Glory. It would appear that their interpretation of these freighters are based on the heavily modded light freighters that in Star Wars lore littered the galaxy. In legends materials, smugglers were routinely beating multiple TIEs as they completed their runs. Unfortunately, the game seems to match THAT far too perfectly.

22 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

so fluff = gameplay for once? that's heavy.

Where in the fluff is Vader getting knocked out by a toilet seat? Where in the fluff is the toilet seat knocking out a full squadron of TIE fighter aces, or Rebel aces, or Boba Fett etc? Where in the fluff are these freighters flying circles around or out pacing A-wings or TIE interceptors?

Where is this fluff?

I get that for gameplay reasons that Vader needs to be beatable, but beatable routinely by a tertiary character? Fluffwise Vader single handily wiped out Phoenix One and most of Phoenix squadron. So tell me, where is this fluff there the toilet seat brigade is the most feared squadron, leaving Rogue squadron shaking in their boots? Where is the fluff about the engineering minds behind the Empire and Alliance struggling to find a way to improve their fighters maneuverability to match the might of Porta-Potty Engineering Corp?

I should add here, I REALLY want X-Wing to succeed. Its an AWESOME game premise, they just need to balance Star Wars theme and gameplay better, right now, they are just failing at that

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

oops

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

2

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

3

Dude, you totally missed an opportunity to hype your post with a countdown:

"Get ready for awesome Darth Meanie content in 3..."

"...2..."

"...1..."

But yeah, nice comment.

49 minutes ago, Gadgetron said:

Where in the fluff is Vader getting knocked out by a toilet seat? Where in the fluff is the toilet seat knocking out a full squadron of TIE fighter aces, or Rebel aces, or Boba Fett etc? Where in the fluff are these freighters flying circles around or out pacing A-wings or TIE interceptors?

Where is this fluff?

I get that for gameplay reasons that Vader needs to be beatable, but beatable routinely by a tertiary character? Fluffwise Vader single handily wiped out Phoenix One and most of Phoenix squadron. So tell me, where is this fluff there the toilet seat brigade is the most feared squadron, leaving Rogue squadron shaking in their boots? Where is the fluff about the engineering minds behind the Empire and Alliance struggling to find a way to improve their fighters maneuverability to match the might of Porta-Potty Engineering Corp?

I should add here, I REALLY want X-Wing to succeed. Its an AWESOME game premise, they just need to balance Star Wars theme and gameplay better, right now, they are just failing at that

• Karrde's smuggler alliance fleet
• Hunter's Luck - WEG short stories, and Children of the Jedi
• Pulsar Skate - hey, remember this one?
• I seem to recall Lando mentioning the Battle of Tanaab - the freighter Mama Tried being key (also, I believe Conner Nets...)
• Dengar did have Punishing One in fluff ( uhg )
• Dash Rendar's Outrider, of course, also represented in the game
• Moldy Crow did a good job in the hands of Jan Ors (poorly represented in game)
• Jade's Fire
• Numerous mentions of pirates running modded freighters

Nobody said there were gangs of Jumpmasters waiting to pounce on unwary sithlords. I stated that heavily modified freighters were a thing in the Star Wars galaxy and that FFG seems to have based all the generic freighters upon this basis. This is my interpretation of the evidence, of course, but these freighters do pop up whenever thematically required in books, comics and games. I'd prefer the game was more focused on small bases myself, and I'll agree that FFG flubbed the balance on the point cost for what they brought to the table with the Jumpmaster - few would argue otherwise there.

By the by - look up Original Trilogy format if you want to get back to classic Star Wars feeling. These are popping up more frequently at different locations up here. Either head up an event or talk to your local TO. These are a lot of fun and probably more what you're looking for - it's my preferred format for tournaments.

Note: According to Rebel Dawn, the Ghost is not in fact primarily a freighter so I'll not include it here.

24 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Dude, you totally missed an opportunity to hype your post with a countdown:

"Get ready for awesome Darth Meanie content in 3..."

"...2..."

"...1..."

But yeah, nice comment.

LOL. I would go back, but it now feels like plagiarism

1 hour ago, Gadgetron said:

Where in the fluff is Vader getting knocked out by a toilet seat? Where in the fluff is the toilet seat knocking out a full squadron of TIE fighter aces, or Rebel aces, or Boba Fett etc? Where in the fluff are these freighters flying circles around or out pacing A-wings or TIE interceptors?

Where is this fluff?

I get that for gameplay reasons that Vader needs to be beatable, but beatable routinely by a tertiary character? Fluffwise Vader single handily wiped out Phoenix One and most of Phoenix squadron. So tell me, where is this fluff there the toilet seat brigade is the most feared squadron, leaving Rogue squadron shaking in their boots? Where is the fluff about the engineering minds behind the Empire and Alliance struggling to find a way to improve their fighters maneuverability to match the might of Porta-Potty Engineering Corp?

I should add here, I REALLY want X-Wing to succeed. Its an AWESOME game premise, they just need to balance Star Wars theme and gameplay better, right now, they are just failing at that

I was pointing out a theme of the general fluff that was about bounty hunters/smugglers wiping out squadrons of tie fighters when they got to curious/ pushy with them. Not everyone drops their cargo and submits to an inspection. It happened to the rebels a couple of times as well. I was not referring to vader vs dengar, which is what we see in game, and yes even scum needs an answer to Vader for gameplay purposes, although it's currently broken, but you're beating the skeleton of that dead horse at this point. Few would disagree the jmk needs some more balancing, which is sure to come in with the next wave either by upgrade, ship counter, or FAQ. Also have you heard of cruise missile vader list? It beat out quite a bit of jmk's at NOVA, even made top 8.

X-wing is obviously succeeding as whole, 12 waves of ships over almost 5 years now. It just not succeeding to your personal opinions in the competitive scene, which is perfectly fine for you to not like because competitive X-wing is not about fluff based encounters cinematic/thematic play, it's about finding the best combo for reducing variance in a game of chance with plastic space ships. I agree with the above post of trying an OT tournament, or my personal suggestion look into Hotac or it's empire variant if you want a more cinematic feel. You can always just ignore ships when playing casual dinner table X-wing. "house rules", as it were.

2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Agreed. And I think the venerable T-65 also fits that mold. Maybe the moral of the story here is that FFG needs to market/talk up those kind of ships in the light of what they are best at, thus appealing more to the casual player as well as "warning" tournament players that these are not meant to be "top tier" designs.

People playing for "entertainment only" would feel more included, and players playing to win would not scream "DOA"!

With Tarkin, Palps, and Jabba in the game, that horse has left the stable. Thus, I think those other characters should be given a role, at least from a narrative XWM POV. Likely, like Tarkin, they could/should only be found on Huge ships.

And I agree that DIY is a great thing, and there is a lot of awesome fan-based stuff available. My complaint is the seeming notion that, if I find the game lacking, I'm not allowed to ask FFG for it but should just DIY.

See, i didn't even know Tarkin was in game. when did they add him? Gozanti? I've never seen him fielded with the raider, but then again I don't own either of those ships... yet.

Palp sort of fit because he had that one shuttle ride in ROTJ, and Jabba's a crimelord so...

And i can kind of understand the perception of not being able to ask FFG for nice things in that regard, because I would personally love to get a really nice campaign box for X-wing from them.

oh, and i'd love to get K-2SO.

3 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

See, i didn't even know Tarkin was in game. when did they add him? Gozanti? I've never seen him fielded with the raider, but then again I don't own either of those ships... yet.

Palp sort of fit because he had that one shuttle ride in ROTJ, and Jabba's a crimelord so...

And i can kind of understand the perception of not being able to ask FFG for nice things in that regard, because I would personally love to get a really nice campaign box for X-wing from them.

Tarkin came with the Raider, and yes, he's actually quite powerful. The ability to add or remove a focus token out to range 4 is pretty potent... He's got competition and he's pricey so he's not an immediate choice even in epic where he's limited to.

2 hours ago, Gadgetron said:

Is this a Star Wars game?

Is this a game that is based on Star Wars lore, canon, physics, and story?

If the answer to the above is yes, and the developers diverge greatly from the above, they have given up on Star Wars.

agreed. why does a magnetic harpoon hurt other ships at range 1 instead of affecting mobility? who knows! how does a Droid get high drugs? good question! Why is the top ship in the game a delivery truck shaped like a toilet seat? ... why not!

The developers are just doing whatever strikes their fancy, wildly misjudging basic gameplay mechanics but also weirdly manipulating the scale of the models and other obvious lore stuff that is cannon. I dont think Star Wars feel is important to them

19 hours ago, Polaritie said:

I direct your attention to MtG.

Which did cost me about as much as 3 of everything in X-Wing and I haven't touched in years.
Though I totally expected this to be the long-term fate of X-Wing as well.

Furthermore and this is really important when addressing the OP. Stuff like Plot Armor, FSR, TIE-Swarms, Dash-Nym, Nym-Corran, etc plays exactly in the same style as the game was many, many years ago. Yes, there is a little bit of power creep, yes there is complexity creep with the card combos, but in the end a FSR is just an efficient jousting formations, Corran plays like Corran always did, TIE-Swarms are still swarms, Flanker Vader with an Lambda and a third ship is currently in the meta, etc

Now what seems to have a little changed is meta diversity in US based tournaments. The rest of the world seems to innovate more, while the states do netlist a lot. And netlisting a lot leads to boring tournaments with lots of mirror matches and playing the same lists over and over again. Now what is as well true is that Release Cycles makes it hard for stuff to settle down, before new stuff upsets the meta again. This used to be a little different at the beginning of X-Wing, because most new stuff just sucked. Now, I don't think anyone prefered that over Old Man Rau? ;-)

Now one thing a lot of people are annoyed with as well are super accurate dice, a lot of people LIKE the gambling part of X-Wing, risk your ingame resources and see if Fortuna will be on your side. Though I think FFG is bringing this a little back, we have seen counters to dice modifications in wave 11. I guess this is the next big thing that will come into the game.