I. Rules Clarification needed for cluster mines detonation and potential damage timing:

1) A ship’s maneuver dial is revealed

2) The maneuver template is placed in the front ship base guides as normal

3) The maneuver template then overlaps a mine token (whether partially or completely thru it to the other side)

Do we :

A) Detonate the bomb immediately & roll for potential damage, then complete the maneuver (by lifting the ship base the the other end of the template as usual), then remove the maneuver template, then remove the mine token(s)?

B) Or do we complete the maneuver, then detonate the bomb & roll for potential damage, then remove the maneuver template and mine token(s)?

II. Cluster Mine Card Text

ACTION: Discard this card to drop 1 cluster mine token set.

WHEN a ship’s base OR MANEUVER TEMPLATE OVERLAPS a cluster mine token, that token DETONATES

Corrected Detonation Text

When a bomb token detonates, the ship that moved through or overlapped that token rolls 2 attack dice and suffers 1 damage for each HIT AND CRIT rolled. Then discard that token.

Side note from X-wing wikia

Unlike Proximity Mines, Cluster Mines do not deal critical hits. Any crits rolled cause normal damage. (very tricky wording)

III. My concern: The timing and/or positioning of a ship suffering or being dealt damage might matter if the ship takes damage prior to actually maneuvering

The way the card reads it suggests to me the mine would detonate right after placing the maneuver template overlaps the mine token so the ship might take potential damage prior to actually moving to the other side of the template(?)

Thanx!

P.S. This qualifies as my first post so it needs moderator approval. It was originally posted in another thread. I made a new one to see if it would post.

I know it has been ruled in the past that damage from Bombs happens before you have "executed a maneuver." This is relevant to R2-D2 restoring a shield after executing a Green maneuver, or a Ghost wanting to deploy a Shuttle after executing a maneuver--the bomb damage would happen first, destroying a ship with R2-D2, or forcing the Phantom shuttle to deploy after destruction (face down damage card, no attacks this round).

However, I don't know the answer to the positioning question. Dead Man's Switch was never a popular card, but Harpoon Missiles likely will be. I don't know the answer to where a ship explodes when its template overlaps a bomb.

RAW the destruction would happen in the starting position, but I suspect that's not the intention.

Executing a maneuver consists of 3 steps:

Quote

a. Move Ship: Slide the maneuver template between the front guides of the ship’s base so that it is flush against the base. Then pick up the ship and place it at the opposite end of the template, sliding the rear guides of the base into the opposite end of the template.
b. Check Pilot Stress: If the maneuver is red, assign one stress token to the ship; if the maneuver is green, remove one stress token from the ship.
c. Clean Up: Return the maneuver template to the pile of maneuver templates. Place the revealed dial outside the play area next to the ship’s Ship card.

Since the bomb detonates when a ships base or maneuver template overlaps it, then it would make the most sense to trigger after executing the "Move Ship" sub-step. I suppose some people may make an argument that you could interrupt the step right before "Then pick up the ship", but it makes more sense to treat the Move Ship step as one action to me.

Since this is before the Check Pilot Stress, and Clean Up steps. You have not finished executing a manuever and will not trigger any cards or abilities that occur "After executing a maneuver" such as R2-D2 or the ability to deploy a ship.

Thanx everyone. If anyone else has input that would be interesting.

I could see as theBitterFig points out it's been ruled (probably at a local level) the bomb detonates right away. But I tend to think the spirit of the rule as joeshmoe554 explains it and thespaceinvader interprets it.

Like obstacles where you execute the maneuver as an action "when a ship executes a maneuver, if its base or template overlaps an obstacle token, it executes its maneuver as normal but suffers an effect based on the type of obstacle" (currently asteroids or debris and implied bombs that detonate as opposed to at the end of the activation phase)

It's just not spelled out as such in the bomb text. Maybe because the mines can be dropped underneath a ship that's not maneuvering. FFG admittedly has to use an economy of words.

Side note: Proximity Mines are different even with their updated text and FAQ so I'm not going to interpret what Cluster Mines do based on that. But I started to ;

I also contacted FFG. Frank Brooks has been able to answer questions when he can get to them that had no obvious or definitive answers the way the rules have to be written and cross-referenced. (Outrider Title and HLC threw me for a loop) I think the FACS rules Reference glossary is very well done with the Related Topics which in effect act like hyperlinks. Even then you might have to cross-referecne three to four rules and be very careful reading the wording. I'll see what he says and post it here. Or if someone else from FFG gives me the official ruling. It usually takes a week or two.

Frank agreed in the past when I said there's so many cards and abilities and not all see serious play that rules can be confusing hence there are so many FAQ's and some errata and card clarification PDF's and forum Q&A's and from experienced players. The game has gotten bigger than FFG could have anticipated since they can tap into not just movie canon but EU as well. Product SWX72 since 2012 is a lot.

On a side note I'm more than impressed how FFG hasn't duplicated a pilot, ship, or upgrade ability (there's some attack vs defensive buffing like Howlrunner and Serrisu) and on top of that made the ability feel like what the pilot, ship, crew, upgrade etc would feel like it were in the SW universe. In which case the spirit of the cluster mines is that you fly thru them to detonate them. You can picture that in a movie.

It seems not too many people use bombs is why I had to inquire. I don't play competitively. But for someone who doesn't I know a lot about X-wing. One of the ships I own is TIE Punisher with Cluster Mines. Watching a lot of video batreps it seems bombs are used as obstacles to redirect traffic clogging up lanes between other obstacles. I guess bombs aren't super popular in the metagame. Which essentially is 98.5% of what I've seen in youtube videos (unfortunately). But then again a TIE Punisher is expensive without anything on it. Including Imperial Insignia floor mats ;

17 hours ago, Collection THX1138 said:

I. Rules Clarification needed for cluster mines detonation and potential damage timing:

1) A ship’s maneuver dial is revealed

2) The maneuver template is placed in the front ship base guides as normal

3) The maneuver template then overlaps a mine token (whether partially or completely thru it to the other side)

Do we :

A) Detonate the bomb immediately & roll for potential damage, then complete the maneuver (by lifting the ship base the the other end of the template as usual), then remove the maneuver template, then remove the mine token(s)?

B) Or do we complete the maneuver, then detonate the bomb & roll for potential damage, then remove the maneuver template and mine token(s)?

Move the ship, then detonate.
The Rules Reference, pg. 7, Bombs, 9th bullet says "If a ship overlaps another ship, only the portion of the maneuver template that is between the starting and final position of the ship is counted for the purpose of overlapping bombs. Ignore the portion of the maneuver template that the ship moved backward along to resolve the overlap."

How can we determine what portion of the template to ignore (if any) if we have not yet moved the ship? For example, my ship attempts to perform a 3 straight and the end of my maneuver template overlaps the bomb, but other ships prevent my ship from reaching that portion of the template, so the end of the template is ignored and the bomb won't detonate.

P.S. Welcome to the forums!

If a ship is blocked back down it's movement template due to overlapping is it ever considered to have even flown hat path?

Were a ship in question to fly over an asteroid such that template, and even base, were to overlap it but it instead is blocked back to a position before it even reaches the asteroid I believe it is considered to have no interaction with that asteroid despite the template actually reaching it. I'd think that detonating mines should work the same way and when that is the case I find it hard to apply the damage at the start of movement especially when a ship may never actually make it to the mine to begin with.

13 hours ago, StevenO said:

If a ship is blocked back down it's movement template due to overlapping is it ever considered to have even flown hat path?

Were a ship in question to fly over an asteroid such that template, and even base, were to overlap it but it instead is blocked back to a position before it even reaches the asteroid I believe it is considered to have no interaction with that asteroid despite the template actually reaching it. I'd think that detonating mines should work the same way and when that is the case I find it hard to apply the damage at the start of movement especially when a ship may never actually make it to the mine to begin with.

For the 1st part, yes. Refer green manuvers and removing stress. Even if the ship doesn't move due to bumping it is still condered to have perfomed a green manuver

1 hour ago, Ralgon said:

For the 1st part, yes. Refer green manuvers and removing stress. Even if the ship doesn't move due to bumping it is still condered to have perfomed a green manuver

...also one of the reasons why K4 Security Droid is so incredibly popular, and why TIE/x7 found itself receiving a nerf.

Another thing is Sabine. She does 1 damage to ships within range 1 of the bomb. So if you go over an action bomb but end your movement beyond range 1 of it. Does Sabine still get to do 1 Damage, to that ship?

I guess not.

Here's the official FFG answer in the latest FAQ PDF VERSION 4.4.0 / EFFECTIVE 11.06.2017 on to my query:

Q: When a ship causes a bomb to detonate when its maneuver template overlaps it (for example Proximity Mine), when does the effect happen?

1 hour ago, Collection THX1138 said:

Here's the official FFG answer in the latest FAQ PDF VERSION 4.4.0 / EFFECTIVE 11.06.2017 on to my query:

Q: When a ship causes a bomb to detonate when its maneuver template overlaps it (for example Proximity Mine), when does the effect happen?

A: The effect of the bomb occurs after the final position of the ship is determined.

PDF listed under FAQ

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing/

This.

The template doesn’t exist. It simply is a visual aid to show you the Ships path and it’s final resting position. So if the template overlaps a bomb it simply illustrates that as the Ships traverses its course the bomb would have been triggered.

For clarity's sake if an academy pilot is behind a Kwing and the Kwing drops clusters such that the bombs overlap the TIE's base but not any part of the TIE's manuver template or final position then the bombs doesn't detonate this or next next turn

Correct?

No. They detonate on base overlap.

9 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

No. They detonate on base overlap.

Even though the Academy pilot moves first and had the bombs placed on it?

Yes. They detonate when they overlap a ship base or vice versa.

10 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yes. They detonate when they overlap a ship base or vice versa.

Ok thx

the positioning thing is due to things like Dead Man's Switch and Sabine. When the token is removed the ship that hit the token could be outside of the range 1 bubble for Sabine thereby mitigating that damage. very slight, situational nerf for Sabine's effectiveness i think