19 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Or you could not click on threads you obviously dislike. That would be great too.

When every other thread is a complaint, I end up accidentally clicking some of them.

Look at this main forum. It's largely a pile of complaint threads.

"The meta sucks (because I can't fly the ships I want to fly in the manner I want to fly them without losing to the OP List of the week/month/whatever)!"

"What do you think about my sweet fix for X-Wing (that will never even be considered, much less implemented)?"

"Is FFG stupid or blind or is it a conspiracy (because I clearly know design and product life-cycle better than they do)?"

Occasionally a thought-provoking topic will get posted, which will largely get **** on by the complainers because that would require them to fly ships they may not want to fly, possibly in a manner they don't want to fly them.

I've only been playing the game since last October and I've seen the "competitive" meta shift 4-6 times. It's the way a game like this works. I get being bummed that your favorite list got nerfed or that you can't beat OP List of week/month/whatever with your favorite list. I even get people feeling frustrated because their list building options have stagnated for competitive play. I absolutely get that. I only play Rebels and every competitive list I dream up has one or more of Miranda, Nym and Biggs.

I just don't understand why the same people have to complain about the same things over and over again in thread after thread. It's just singing to the choir and if all of the salt is going to have any impact on the game/community, it'll only serve to drive people away.

3 minutes ago, gennataos said:

When every other thread is a complaint, I end up accidentally clicking some of them.

Look at this main forum. It's largely a pile of complaint threads.

"The meta sucks (because I can't fly the ships I want to fly in the manner I want to fly them without losing the OP List of the week/month/whatever)!"

"What do you think about my sweet fix for X-Wing (that will never even be considered, much less implemented)?"

"Is FFG stupid or blind or is it a conspiracy (because I clearly know design and product life-cycle better than they do)?"

Occasionally a thought-provoking topic will get posted, which will largely get **** on by the complainers because that would require them to fly ships they may not want to fly, possibly in a manner they don't want to fly them.

I've only been playing the game since last October and I've seen the "competitive" meta shift 4-6 times. It's the way a game like this works. I get being bummed that your favorite list got nerfed or that you can't beat OP List of week/month/whatever with your favorite list. I even get people feeling frustrated because their list building options have stagnated for competitive play. I absolutely get that. I only play Rebels and every competitive list I dream up has one or more of Miranda, Nym and Biggs.

I just don't understand why the same people have to complain about the same things over and over again in thread after thread. It's just singing to the choir and if all of the salt is going to have any impact on the game/community, it'll only serve to drive people away.

And it has pretty much been that way since I've been coming to this forum. People need to blow off steam and voice their problems. That's actually the healthy option, as far as mental health is concerned.

If there is something you feel is nearing fundamentally wrong with something, do you speak about it once, then no more? Heck, this isn't your first time speaking out against these kind of threads. Just like the people who start these threads, you are repeating yourself over and over. Why do you do it? And why can't the same motivations apply to others?

7 minutes ago, gennataos said:

When every other thread is a complaint, I end up accidentally clicking some of them.

Look at this main forum. It's largely a pile of complaint threads...

Hmmm. Let's take a look at that, shall we?

FAQ fix to end PS wars - not a complaint thread, more of a theorycrafting/suggestion, what if topic

Top 10 pilots in X-Wing, the continuing stale Meta... - possibly a complaint thread

Viktor Hel pilot ability - not a complaint thread

XG-1 "Star Wing" Assault Gunboat - most definitely not a complaint thread

I'm hoping for a NEW original Core Set - not a complaint thread

Long Range Missiles, how could it work? - not a complaint thread

Maybe this wasn't meant to be a "forever" kind of game after all - possibly a complaint thread

Congrats to Paul Heaver our NOVA champ - not a complaint thread

How would you "fix" the many bad Astromechs? - not a complaint thread

XvT Mod, a full conversion mod for casual games. Version 2.1 - not a complaint thread

My Thoughts On the imperial performance - not a complaint thread

This will be difficult I know..but try to objectively describe your local player base. - possibly a camoflaged complaint thread

[new] Odanan's Custom cards - not a complaint thread

TIE/VN Speculation - not a complaint thread

What kind of ability would you give a 0 point astromech? - not a complaint thread

What Would People Think of a "Casual Wave"? - not a complaint thread

Wave 11/12 T-65 Band-aid? - not a complaint thread

Are tie fighters the cop cars of the Star Wars galaxy? - not a complaint thread

Upsilon Shuttle mission? - not a complaint thread

The Big X-Wing Trade Thread - clearly not a complaint thread

U-Wing & Defender Screenshots Rebels - not a complaint thread

Poe Dameron's The Last Jedi X-Wing - not a complaint thread

Name that pilot - not a complaint thread

The lady doth protest too much, methinks...

Hey, I guess if this is how you guys eek enjoyment out of the game, I really shouldn't try to dissuade you.

Played a few games over the weekend against my son at home. X-wing is still a fun game. Have played outside the house exactly once since May. As a point of comparison, I have 10 copies of the alt-art C-3PO from the 2015? store champs season. Haven't purchased a TIE Aggressor or C-Roc and haven't doubled up on any ships since the T-70 and I could field 100 points worth of pretty much every small-based ship up to wave 6.

Power creep is real and FFG is losing credibility with me regarding their ability to control it. The great nerfing was a good start but when Nym drops as another obviously broken combo-wing disaster, I start losing hope. The Scurgg pilots should not have access to EPT's period. The proposed fourth (fifth?) nerf of the Jumpmaster will still leave Dengar as a better jouster than most generic lists.

I'm just me and can't speak for anyone else but FFG is not going to be getting nearly as much money from me until something changes drastically for the better. The game is no longer won and lost in the planning phase, you win and lose in list-building and that sucks in my opinion.

...

Miniatures games have always been able to be heavily influenced (leading to a high risk of loss) in the army building phase. Get over it.

That nationals final showed that skill still wins game though. Why is P. Heaver choosing Biggs with Reb swarm for Worlds (defeating expectation with his build) a few years back different to him choosing Nym and Miranda when everyone is bleating about DengarNym or FFS rebels (or whatever they are called). His skill is exemplary, not only in list building, but also flight. It was an amazing way to win the final and had the arrogant experts baffled with his flying (I say arrogant as one says "he is good, he's one of the few people that has beaten me" with no irony in his tone).

The meta will change again. It will not remain static. Flow with it, or play relaxed, fun games with friends with the ships you love.

1 hour ago, HammerOfReason said:

The block user feature of the forum is super useful in filtering the complaints spam out of the topics.

Blocking 10-12 very specific users will filter out 90% of the salt.

I didn't even realize that feature exists. Post of the day goes to you!

1 hour ago, Larky Bobble said:

FFS rebels (or whatever they are called).

That is an acceptable name

1 hour ago, Larky Bobble said:

Miniatures games have always been able to be heavily influenced (leading to a high risk of loss) in the army building phase. Get over it.

That nationals final showed that skill still wins game though. Why is P. Heaver choosing Biggs with Reb swarm for Worlds (defeating expectation with his build) a few years back different to him choosing Nym and Miranda when everyone is bleating about DengarNym or FFS rebels (or whatever they are called). His skill is exemplary, not only in list building, but also flight. It was an amazing way to win the final and had the arrogant experts baffled with his flying (I say arrogant as one says "he is good, he's one of the few people that has beaten me" with no irony in his tone).

The meta will change again. It will not remain static. Flow with it, or play relaxed, fun games with friends with the ships you love.

There is a reason that I have never been interested in 40K or other miniatures games. Or Magic. Or any of one hundred different games where most of the game occurs before the game. I'm not interested in spending hours crafting the perfect card combo. It's not where I find my fun.

I'm not saying that six HWK lists should be able to win worlds or that flying skill is irrelevant. I am saying that the continued failure of the game designers to avoid easily exploitable broken combos is decreasing what I am willing to spend on the game in terms of money and time.

Is it possible the testers are letting these combos and under priced ships through the cracks on purpose? Maybe the staff needs to find different testers or not allow them to also play in official tournaments.

3 hours ago, Zarovichx said:

Is it possible the testers are letting these combos and under priced ships through the cracks on purpose? Maybe the staff needs to find different testers or not allow them to also play in official tournaments.

nah. In-house testers (who are not allowed to play competitively) at other game companies let through big stupid combos in their games that require almost instant banning. There's just a lot of moving parts at this point.

12 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

nah. In-house testers (who are not allowed to play competitively) at other game companies let through big stupid combos in their games that require almost instant banning. There's just a lot of moving parts at this point.

I have one word. Just one word.

Pyrovore.

21 hours ago, Bunsenbrenner said:

Sold my x-wing collection a couple of years ago, thought about coming back but after I read the topics here from the last few days, it seems like I should wait some time before I reinvest?

Depends what playstyle you like.

Last tournament my wife and me had a blast. She loves PS10 Nym, because she loves bombing people and hates getting blocked. She loves her Corran Horn since we started playing as well, so Advanced Sensor Corran Nym was a real blast for her.

And me? I could not be happier about the meta changes. Ok, after playing Miranda + Horn I definatlly needed a shower, because all that regen makes you feel dirty, but Vader, Quickdraw and Kylo on Lambda sounds like a lot fun, is viable list and overall suits my style very well. There are a few other options too, but the fact alone that Vader seems playable alone a reason to rejoice. Simply because I prefer the Imperial Aces style to Rebel-Scum Aces.

If you are a jouster there are a few great lists for that too, etc I really don't get the hate, double repositions aces seem to be back, advanced sensor aces are there as well, jousting aces like dengar and fenn rau are there as well, a jousting 4 ships list is super popular, etc

And the best part? You barely need anything from the stuff you have sold, because there are so many options with new ships to fly that you did lost much of your investment if you get back into the game. Now with stuff like Vader, Biggs, Dash, Coran, Miranda, etc you still have options to fly the old stuff too, but you don't necessary need all those old expansions, they are merely optional. So grab a TFA Core Set, grab a list builder and maybe do a sneak peak for the most popular archetype to see what you will most likely facing and enjoy the game again.

Those who really dislike the game and are so vocal about it experience something similar to what I did when my beloved imperial aces lost their place in the meta. It's frustrating and annoying when your playstyle stops working out or when you are at least forced into different ships to maintain your prefered style, but with a living game and meta this will happen just happen sometimes. Sucks when it hits you, so whining about it will always be a thing and as the meta changes about every 3 months … the whining never stops.

Meta-wing doesn't mean what you think it means.

You must unlearn what you have learned.

The 'Great Nerfing' this year and the pending release of Guns For Hire have put X-wing in the best state it's ever been in. Lowhhrick is a pain, but we'll soon have Harpoon Missiles. I don't perceive the meta as stale because it keeps changing. Remember just a few weeks ago when everyone was incessantly complaining about Attanni Mindlink. Low and behold, the Mindlink meta doesn't exist anymore.

I just played my third game involving Nym. I've read about him, so I know the theory.

The first: against Nym played by a newer player, and I ate him right up with a 2x Gamma Squad Vet /2x Tempest ordnance list I was considering for an Original Trilogy tournament.

The second: against Nym played by a local guy who's made the second day twice at worlds with Dengar lists, flying Dengar Nym against my Heragator. Quad Accuracy corrector TLTs wreak havoc on 1 agility ships. I lost closely (3 HP left on Dengar), but didn't see too much from Nym.

But today I played him myself for the first time, with the Heaver nationals list (Miranda/Nym).

My god, it's full of stars. O_O

My opponent had a triple Punisher list (2x Cutlass double-cluster minefield mappers and a Deathrain with Bomblets), so it wasn't going to be a strong matchup for him regardless, but the things you can do with Nym. I get it now.

8 hours ago, Zarovichx said:

Is it possible the testers are letting these combos and under priced ships through the cracks on purpose? Maybe the staff needs to find different testers or not allow them to also play in official tournaments.

When the explanation is either a conspiracy or incompetence, I'd wager on a group of people being stupid, rather than a group of people being intelligent.

To be fair to the play-testers, it could also be that they are catching OP cards/combos, but FFG is just ignoring their advice. I'm not a play-tester, so I don't know how common it is for the devs to ignore them, but I find it hard to believe Bomblet made it through play-testing without some objections.

Also, I'm still not finding Nym to be the terror that others on this forum have made him out to be. He's certainly good, but he's not Dengar level OP stupid good. I think much like Miranda, Nym is a newbie-slayer, who melts to an experienced opponent. I still haven't gotten around to actually flying him.

When folks are winning at GenCon and US Nationals with Corran/Nym and Miranda/Nym, he's clearly not just "a newbie-slayer, who melts to an experienced opponent." I personally probably rate him as less OP than Dengar, but I reserve the right to alter that opinion.

12 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Hmmm. Let's take a look at that, shall we?

FAQ fix to end PS wars - not a complaint thread, more of a theorycrafting/suggestion, what if topic

Top 10 pilots in X-Wing, the continuing stale Meta... - possibly a complaint thread

Viktor Hel pilot ability - not a complaint thread

XG-1 "Star Wing" Assault Gunboat - most definitely not a complaint thread

I'm hoping for a NEW original Core Set - not a complaint thread

Long Range Missiles, how could it work? - not a complaint thread

Maybe this wasn't meant to be a "forever" kind of game after all - possibly a complaint thread

Congrats to Paul Heaver our NOVA champ - not a complaint thread

How would you "fix" the many bad Astromechs? - not a complaint thread

XvT Mod, a full conversion mod for casual games. Version 2.1 - not a complaint thread

My Thoughts On the imperial performance - not a complaint thread

This will be difficult I know..but try to objectively describe your local player base. - possibly a camoflaged complaint thread

[new] Odanan's Custom cards - not a complaint thread

TIE/VN Speculation - not a complaint thread

What kind of ability would you give a 0 point astromech? - not a complaint thread

What Would People Think of a "Casual Wave"? - not a complaint thread

Wave 11/12 T-65 Band-aid? - not a complaint thread

Are tie fighters the cop cars of the Star Wars galaxy? - not a complaint thread

Upsilon Shuttle mission? - not a complaint thread

The Big X-Wing Trade Thread - clearly not a complaint thread

U-Wing & Defender Screenshots Rebels - not a complaint thread

Poe Dameron's The Last Jedi X-Wing - not a complaint thread

Name that pilot - not a complaint thread

The lady doth protest too much, methinks...

I'll admit to not looking at all of those threads but a good number of those "not a complain thread" can ultimately be seen as veiled complaint threads. "How would you fix the many bad Astromechs" topic sure sounds like a complaint thread to me. If there is no complaint why would there need to be any fix?

A thread being theorycrafting or suggestion can still be a complaint based on what ever the status quo is. I mean if we talk about ordnance there have been some that are legit but many have been barely veiled digs at how useless ordnance has been.

8 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

When folks are winning at GenCon and US Nationals with Corran/Nym and Miranda/Nym, he's clearly not just "a newbie-slayer, who melts to an experienced opponent." I personally probably rate him as less OP than Dengar, but I reserve the right to alter that opinion.

Apologies, it was a bit of hyperbole, I don't actually think an experienced player has an easy game against him. More like the newer player has a particularly hard time against him. Nym (like Miranda) really punishes you if you make mistakes like poor target priority, or overcommitting. Against any list, mistakes like these are bad, but Nym in particular can really punish you for them. These kind of mistakes are something I'd expect more of a new player.

Like I said, I've played against him plenty of times (all sorts of builds and opponents), and I've never felt him to be particularly oppressive. As long as you're careful with your approach, he just evaporates to concentrated fire. 10HP at agility 1 just isn't very tough, especially if he doesn't get to PS kill something before it can shoot him.

As you say, I find Dengar to be the more problematic ship. He's just so bloody efficient that your opponent can make huge mistakes, and still pull off victories despite it.

12 hours ago, CRCL said:

Apologies, it was a bit of hyperbole, I don't actually think an experienced player has an easy game against him. More like the newer player has a particularly hard time against him. Nym (like Miranda) really punishes you if you make mistakes like poor target priority, or overcommitting. Against any list, mistakes like these are bad, but Nym in particular can really punish you for them. These kind of mistakes are something I'd expect more of a new player.

Like I said, I've played against him plenty of times (all sorts of builds and opponents), and I've never felt him to be particularly oppressive. As long as you're careful with your approach, he just evaporates to concentrated fire. 10HP at agility 1 just isn't very tough, especially if he doesn't get to PS kill something before it can shoot him.

As you say, I find Dengar to be the more problematic ship. He's just so bloody efficient that your opponent can make huge mistakes, and still pull off victories despite it.

I was probably too snarky myself, no worries.

Anyhow, Nym's got potential to be a big playmaker. There was a moment where, after being nose-to-nose with a Punisher, it pulled a hard 3, dropped cluster mines right in my face. One hit initially (I lucked out with blank-focus) but the other two were right there. However, Advanced Sensors, Barrel Roll, drop a Bomblet, and fly past. Then that Bomblet and the one I'd stalled from last turn blew, two bombs into my opponent when I'd dodged 2 out of his 3. I was just blown away playing him, with all his options.

Oh, he clearly has vulnerabilities, and certainly he's the kind of ship that amplifies the skill gap between players (for or against). But I feel like my eyes have been opened somewhat.

The funny thing is this: if Dengar and Nym were each two PS lower baseline, I don't think I'd find them to be nearly so much of a problem. Maybe that could be said about most ships, but I feel like the high PS of these folks matters a lot more for these guys particularly. For me, it's not just that Dengar is efficient, but that it's **** near impossible to get out of that arc at PS 9. If Dengar had to choose between VI or dice mods...

Honestly the meta is pretty much always tale except perhaps the first 2 weeks after a release when people try some new combo's and realize that Dengar still beats all.

21 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

The funny thing is this: if Dengar and Nym were each two PS lower baseline, I don't think I'd find them to be nearly so much of a problem. Maybe that could be said about most ships, but I feel like the high PS of these folks matters a lot more for these guys particularly. For me, it's not just that Dengar is efficient, but that it's **** near impossible to get out of that arc at PS 9. If Dengar had to choose between VI or dice mods...

The high PS of Nym especially is warping the game in a bad way. This whole nonsense of having to shoot for PS11 to have a chance with Imp lists is really ridiculous. PS wars are one of the most uninteresting states of the game. I really hope they consider a hard ceiling of 9 for PS- would really make the current 9 elite pilots quite a bit better. They're supposed to be the most elite pilots in the galaxy, after all.

8 hours ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

The high PS of Nym especially is warping the game in a bad way. This whole nonsense of having to shoot for PS11 to have a chance with Imp lists is really ridiculous. PS wars are one of the most uninteresting states of the game. I really hope they consider a hard ceiling of 9 for PS- would really make the current 9 elite pilots quite a bit better. They're supposed to be the most elite pilots in the galaxy, after all.

This is 90% me too.

I'd cap PS at 9, and add text to VI and addaptibility that states, "to a maximum PS of 8."