Looks like Lowhhrick is holding as the #1 pilot over Fenn Rau and Miranda as the solid top 3 (though not all lists are in from NOVA yet). The rest go from 4th to 10th as: Biggs, Reb Nym, Scum Nym, Dengar, Rex, Jess and Dash. That's 7 Rebel pilots and 3 Scum ones. Looks like the top of the pile is being cemented in place (long as the last NOVA entries hold).

This leads to obvious inquiries: 1) What does this say about our game's design balance post Wave 11? 2) Did the designers inability to release their completion of the "Bringing Balance to the Force" FAQ assist or even create this imbalance? 3) Are they just hoping it'll all work out post Wave 12 and Movie releases? 4) Do they even ponder the current game state?

Thanks for all the work on List Juggler guys!

http://meta-wing.com/pilots?

I honestly don't know what they're thinking. Ever since BBTTF FAQ in March, everyone's been expecting a follow up of some kind. Why eviscerate Palp and X7, but leave other known powerhouses intact? JM5K for sure has needed addressing since Wave 7, being the most egregious offender in the game. Biggs has needed addressing for some time as well, though FFG seemed to double-down on Biggs with Wave 11. Then there's Miranda/Sabine/Adv. Slam- three offenders that all tend towards the 'Uber-Powerful and Under-costed'- each adding an element of low-counterplay anti-fragile ship mechanics to the game.

I honestly don't get FFGs plan here with the March FAQ? Why just beat up and obliterate one faction and not hit the offenders from the others? I'd really like some Dev input on the topic, but alas, the Devs seem either unwilling or unable to engage- and the game is hemorrhaging players as a result. By all metrics, X-Wing is worse off than a year ago.

27 minutes ago, Scumwing Apologist said:

By all metrics, X-Wing is worse off than a year ago.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would love to see all of these metrics you speak of.

9 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would love to see all of these metrics you speak of.

Will do- there was a thread a while back with some results on tournament registrations #s. I'll link it here.

*Found It* This was recently posted on the main Forum, link to a decent data driven discussion of X-Wing tournament registration #s:

https://datanotrelevant.wordpress.com/2017/06/13/is-the-interest-in-x-wing-dying-down/

And another as relates to Imperial populations during the SC season:

https://datanotrelevant.wordpress.com/2017/06/20/imperials-in-the-store-championship-2017/

Not conclusive, but definitely points to a decline.

Quote

By all metrics

The only valid metrics are sales, based on forecasts. At least if you are selling the game, that is. By all accounts they aren´ t in bad shape. Tourneys could be a future predictor, but really they´ re holding the Golden Goose, given the movies that are coming out. I suspect this Goose could be tough to kill, given the absolute fandom nature of the product.

4 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

The only valid metrics are sales, based on forecasts. At least if you are selling the game, that is. By all accounts they aren´ t in bad shape. Tourneys could be a future predictor, but really they´ re holding the Golden Goose, given the movies that are coming out. I suspect this Goose could be tough to kill, given the absolute fandom nature of the product.

You are absolutely right, sales figures are the 100% goto for this kind of evaluation. I don't have FFG numbers, but anecdotally all 3 of my local FLGS where I play have reported lessened X-Wing sales. One owner attributed it to 40k 8th Ed. coming out this year, the other two attributed it to 'sometimes game just burn out'. Really wish I could be a fly on the wall in FFGs sales department.

Personally speaking, I've pretty much decided to swear off buying multiples of ships anymore. I bought 1 TIE Aggressor in Wave 11 (pretty much just for Intensity), and I'm perfectly happy with that. Who needs 4 of such a meh ship? Had they made it up to the Scurrg's level of power and I would have considered it.

It just would be nice if they took 3 things away. At least for me.

1. The half points for big ships. There are WAY too many little ships that have far more hit points

2. Get rid of the Palp Nerf. TOTALLY unnecessary especially from what we see in Big Tournaments.

3. Get rid of the Phantom Nerf. This is just because i love the Phantom but all in all it would give the Imperials SOMETHING really cool.

Just my 2 cents worth

1 minute ago, zhentil said:

It just would be nice if they took 3 things away. At least for me.

1. The half points for big ships. There are WAY too many little ships that have far more hit points

2. Get rid of the Palp Nerf. TOTALLY unnecessary especially from what we see in Big Tournaments.

3. Get rid of the Phantom Nerf. This is just because i love the Phantom but all in all it would give the Imperials SOMETHING really cool.

Just my 2 cents worth

Heck no to undoing the Phantom Nerf. You'll get the PS turret wars again to catch them. The other stuff, fine, I can live with.

The March FAQ did pretty strenuously hit Scum. The Emperor nerf was hardest, but the Zuckuss and Manaroo nerfs were bigger than the x/7 nerf. It's pretty clear Scum and Jumpmasters (subject to both the R4 Agromech timing nerf and the Deadeye nerf) were still out of balance, but still. Manaroo is down to #151 on the meta list, with TIE Defenders at 17, 37, and 44.

I never played anything like it into a Dengaroo list, but I can't imagine that a low-offense Biggs list would have been very strong against it, so the change in matchups might have benefited Biggs greatly. Prior to the FAQ, the "prevailing wisdom" was that rebels were by far the weakest faction.

9 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

Heck no to undoing the Phantom Nerf. You'll get the PS turret wars again to catch them. The other stuff, fine, I can live with.

I don't want Phantoms un-nerffed either, but we already have the PS wars. PS10 Nym saw to that. Now the only decently performing Imp list has to reach for PS11 just to not get auto-damaged off the board.

I'd like to see the Palp and X7 nerfs reverted, and see where the faction is after that.

I'm not sure SC registrations are a good indicator. We switched seasons, and there may be more SCs.

In our area (SE Michigan) we have more SC events than last year, and having them in summer rather than winter means that there is both more competition for activities (vacations, outdoor activities, etc) and those people are spread between more events. Our average SC participation was down about 20-25% at the events I attended and is could be entirely seasonal. Our winter Regionals on the other hand was our biggest ever.

Yeah. The problem I see is nym.

Nym has been in all 5 lists that have won nationals this year.

Nym un is the main pilot that you need to list build around or you will lose.

After seeing things at nova, it's also bringing back the ps war.

Sadly, I agree with the Great Nerfing except for Palpatine... as a crutch. (Imperial design needs more support ships and overhaul).

Really, Jmks are too strong still.

The Sabine and Cadbane crews could be toned down.

Attanni needs a nerf.

Lowwrick was a bad idea. Biggs needs a nerf. but other than that, really there's nothing else that horribly bad....

Wait, then they released the uber powercreep harpoon missiles.

.... This game is jumping the dead shark.

1 hour ago, Scumwing Apologist said:

You are absolutely right, sales figures are the 100% goto for this kind of evaluation. I don't have FFG numbers, but anecdotally all 3 of my local FLGS where I play have reported lessened X-Wing sales. One owner attributed it to 40k 8th Ed. coming out this year, the other two attributed it to 'sometimes game just burn out'. Really wish I could be a fly on the wall in FFGs sales department.

Personally speaking, I've pretty much decided to swear off buying multiples of ships anymore. I bought 1 TIE Aggressor in Wave 11 (pretty much just for Intensity), and I'm perfectly happy with that. Who needs 4 of such a meh ship? Had they made it up to the Scurrg's level of power and I would have considered it.

The one I am interested in is sales of wave 1,2 and 3 ships. They are the ones that show how many hardcore SW fans are entering the game. Pure Gamers will buy the more efficient waves to be competitive

1 hour ago, MegaSilver said:

Heck no to undoing the Phantom Nerf. You'll get the PS turret wars again to catch them. The other stuff, fine, I can live with.

I'm still certain it was a buff

PS0 Decloak to block. So good

After reading a lot of threads relating to meta and the current state of the game, I've noticed the US game is in a very different state as opposed to here in Aus.

The game is finally booming here after a fairly slow start, and accessibility is increasing with it, with more stores with larger stock and more frequent events etc. In my FLGS I see new players almost every week. The meta is a little different here too although not a lot. 2 ship lists make up the majority of competitive lists, and most of those rely heavily on large ships. Scum is still king here even after the FAQ.

Speaking on the FAQ, I'm not going to go to much into my opinion on the nerfs, but from what I have seen over the course of the last 6 months seem to show that the FAQ did it's job. Pre-nerf; Palp was in every list, triple defenders were everywhere and it was Paratanni or at least manaroo in every scum list I saw. I think the FAQ did create a bit of a shockwave for Scum players here, but they adapted after the initial recoil, and as I said before, are still king my area.

Post nerf; Palp is still kicking, especially with Kylo, Defenders are still around, however now its usually 1 defender instead of 3 which I think was a needed shift. People are starting to experiment with Manaroo again, although her use has dropped, mindlink has dropped significantly (its not dead though). I will admit that the FAQ killed Zuckuss crew, I haven't seen him since the FAQ dropped. I still think he's a nice addition for 1pt, but a lot of scum players are using other crew now and they needed somewhere to fit Cad Bane I guess.

In terms of the top ships in my meta, Ketsu, Dengar and Bossk all still run rampant for scum in large ships, Fenn and Nym for the smalls. Rebels would be Nym, Dash, Rey, Rex, and Poe. Not so much Miranda although she is still popular (I think the scarcity of K-wing stock saw to that), and Biggs isn't really used to often either. Imps, its Quickdraw, Ryad, RAC, and Whisper.

I think FFG were trying to balance out both Biggs and large ships with munitions over the last few waves, I can't see them ever nerfing Biggs as there so many ways to get around him these days however strong he may be. I also think we're going to see a shift to arc-dodgers in terms of near-future releases. Guns for Hire will err on the side of dodgers even if it doesn't include many high PS ships. Thweek in particular seems like another counter to Biggs alongside harpoon missiles. I think we will see new A-wings and a TIE/vn which also sit closer to the dodger side of the pie, giving a lot more options to keep out of the way of Nym and the like in the current meta.

@BVRCH, you give me another reason to wish to visit down under, thanks! Yeah, currently trapped here in the States with quite the stale meta; love your outlook and enthusiasm on potential OP corrections (Biggs, Bomb Platforms, etc) through designed future releases.......if only I had that level of trust in the designers, if only. Seems the only way to get a balanced set of games round here is to grab a few pints, outlaw the OP stuff, and play with friends. ?

17 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

@BVRCH, you give me another reason to wish to visit down under, thanks! Yeah, currently trapped here in the States with quite the stale meta; love your outlook and enthusiasm on potential OP corrections (Biggs, Bomb Platforms, etc) through designed future releases.......if only I had that level of trust in the designers, if only. Seems the only way to get a balanced set of games round here is to grab a few pints, outlaw the OP stuff, and play with friends. ?

It's an exciting time for the game here, and we always welcome fellow X-wing players!
Haha I do believe they are consciously thinking of the state of the game whilst designing new waves, and I like to believe that they try their best to balance things with new content rather than disturbing established content, only issuing erratum when they absolutely have too. I think that's why they take so long to make such changes too, as its quite evident in other games *cough warhammer cough* how detrimental large scale changes to existing content can be to the player base.

Beer and X-wing with friends, isn't that the best way to play X-wing anyway? I think having friendly restrictions is also a great way to inspire new lists and combos. My local store group are currently doing that on our casual flight night.

PS6 max, unique only, small ship only, 3 ships no more no less. It makes things a lot more interesting!

4 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Looks like Lowhhrick is holding as the #1 pilot over Fenn Rau and Miranda as the solid top 3 (though not all lists are in from NOVA yet). The rest go from 4th to 10th as: Biggs, Reb Nym, Scum Nym, Dengar, Rex, Jess and Dash. That's 7 Rebel pilots and 3 Scum ones. Looks like the top of the pile is being cemented in place (long as the last NOVA entries hold).

This leads to obvious inquiries: 1) What does this say about our game's design balance post Wave 11? 2) Did the designers inability to release their completion of the "Bringing Balance to the Force" FAQ assist or even create this imbalance? 3) Are they just hoping it'll all work out post Wave 12 and Movie releases? 4) Do they even ponder the current game state?

Thanks for all the work on List Juggler guys!

http://meta-wing.com/pilots?

What a shame that the french nationals are missing …

4 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

What a shame that the french nationals are missing …

Um. No they aren't. Take this entry for the Denym list: http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos/5720?tournament_type=16&

French Nationals results are up.

11 minutes ago, Scumwing Apologist said:

Um. No they aren't. Take this entry for the Denym list: http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos/5720?tournament_type=16&

French Nationals results are up.

Now that is super odd, click on Vader and the noteable squads are some store champs, the interesting national-runner up nowhere to be seen. 9th squadron under the "show more" squadron tab. Really odd how this is weighted. Overall placing over event size?

Anyway, you are right, I was curious why Vader was in the top15 already check him and did not see the french nationals, jumped to conclusions.

7 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Now that is super odd, click on Vader and the noteable squads are some store champs, the interesting national-runner up nowhere to be seen. 9th squadron under the "show more" squadron tab. Really odd how this is weighted. Overall placing over event size?

Anyway, you are right, I was curious why Vader was in the top15 already check him and did not see the french nationals, jumped to conclusions.

Yeah it is a little difficult to tell what is up and such. No worries man!

3 hours ago, zhentil said:

It just would be nice if they took 3 things away. At least for me.

1. The half points for big ships. There are WAY too many little ships that have far more hit points

2. Get rid of the Palp Nerf. TOTALLY unnecessary especially from what we see in Big Tournaments.

3. Get rid of the Phantom Nerf. This is just because i love the Phantom but all in all it would give the Imperials SOMETHING really cool.

Just my 2 cents worth

I agree on #1, but it should be the other way around. MORE ships should get half MOV. With so many 2-3 ship lists in the game I think it's a very good thing to have that half MOV, the problem is more and more small ships are part of those lists.

#2 I disagree on, though I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if they did revert it. I've played several games against the nerfed Palp and he was probably 90% as effective as before. Maybe once a game a evade would be guessed that wasn't needed afterall. But otherwise most guesses of when to use him have been good.

#3 I strongly disagree on. Whisper and Echo are both very strong if you're not running turrets and/or super high PS ships in your list. I remember the old days of pre-nerf phantoms and it was terrible.

4 hours ago, zhentil said:

3. Get rid of the Phantom Nerf. This is just because i love the Phantom but all in all it would give the Imperials SOMETHING really cool.

Pre-nerf Phantoms are like giving someone three doors to choose from and then you deciding where the prize is after they've picked a door. With post-nerf Phantoms, you have to put the prize behind a door (i.e decloak)before you see which one they've picked (i.e. what maneuver is on their dial). That sounds more like a cloaking device. Getting to pick after they've moved is like choosing which of three realities is true when it's your turn to move. That's a quantum ship, not a cloaking ship.

And no Imperial/First order on the top 10

Quickdraw (11) / Vader (14) / Omega Leader (18) are the top 3 imperial pilots