With some spoiler articles and the announcement ones we can see a lot of command cards.

My point is there aren't so much force user command cards in the stuff we know: force jump and force push(for rebels)

There is only one secret card in each ally and villian pack and two of them will be the unique character command card so this let us with only 2-3 force user card in all blisters wave.

In the HotE articles we already have seen about 7-8 commands (well we didn't see two unique rebels but we know it) so there are only slots for 2 more force user cards...

I thought this wave will be a powe up for the force but seems like not. Ok, i love the work they did for iconic characters. Vader will be great, but... His command card is useless right now and my hopes to fix it are more force user cards that combo with his card. Perhaps no.

What are your thoughts people?

I share your concern. I took a Force User list to Europeans and was crushed - partly because they are just not strong enough. Force users desperately need more movement to get into the action before the Hunters annihilate them, or more survivability, but I haven't seen much yet that will alleviate this problem.

2 hours ago, Georgedpalpatine said:

I share your concern. I took a Force User list to Europeans and was crushed - partly because they are just not strong enough. Force users desperately need more movement to get into the action before the Hunters annihilate them, or more survivability, but I haven't seen much yet that will alleviate this problem.

It's true. Hunters have the best cards followed by Smugglers. I'm surprised we haven't heard about more love for Brawlers either. Some Brawler figures could use the help.

1 hour ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

It's true. Hunters have the best cards followed by Smugglers. I'm surprised we haven't heard about more love for Brawlers either. Some Brawler figures could use the help.

Well, force jump and force push (if you can use it in friendly dudes) would help a little to force user movement. But certain, the hunters have game breaking free cards *cof* assassinate *coff*

i'd love something like "force speed: use at the start of a round. You gain 2 movement points and can perform multiple attacks during your activation." This would be awesome in vader combo with "Lord of the Sith". I think the two would eat 6 command points, so no OP but nice. Perhaps in a better way vader can perform 3 attacks + driven by hatred in a round.

On the other hand this card would be awesome to all force users.

6 hours ago, Georgedpalpatine said:

I share your concern. I took a Force User list to Europeans and was crushed - partly because they are just not strong enough. Force users desperately need more movement to get into the action before the Hunters annihilate them, or more survivability, but I haven't seen much yet that will alleviate this problem.

Care to share the list?

Personally I don't think the Force User trait in itself is lacking for cards. There are some good utility cards out there now, and coming in Heart of the Empire. I'd honestly prefer Brawler or Vehicle or Heavy Weapon got buffed (the latter appears to be, from spoiler articles as of this post), which would open up the overall pool of options to the game a lot more than making a couple of Force User characters better when others are just fine.

If we assume that the new Vader and Maul/Palpatine/Ahsoka are all useful out of the box, I'd imagine the groupings of Force User characters looks something like this;

Great Picks;

Vader, Palpatine, Maul, Ahsoka, Jedi Luke, Obi-Wan

Good Pick;

Inquisitor

Not Seen in a Few Waves Picks;

Davith, Core Luke, Diala (edited this in myself, having forgot all about her, as the heading would suggest)

I know you can make Leia "count as" a Force User with that one card, but in terms of the actual printed trait, I think the above is a good summary. If I missed someone, let me know, and I'd be curious to see how others might otherwise rank them.

So anyways, by that assessment, I'd say that the Great Picks are currently seeing a lot of successful play/will see a lot of successful play when the Heart release becomes official. They all have different roles in lists, but their presence, if built around correctly, will lead to some interesting results. A few of them also have traits beyond just "Force User" such as Spy, Leader, Brawler, that have some secondary functions for Command Card shenanigans as well.

The Inquisitor isn't currently doing it for me with Imperials like Captain Terro or Agent Blaise are, but this is all subjective I guess. He's still pretty vicious if you can get him safely into the thick of things, and being able to drop those dirty Hunter cards down when he starts swinging should give anyone some pause when The Quiz comes strolling into your midst.

For the rest, I think Core Luke is upstaged by Jedi Luke, and I haven't even considered using him for some time. I haven't put Davith on the field myself, ever, so I don't want to speculate on him too much in the current climate, though I'm sure someone with more experience might be able to chime in on his value or lack thereof.

Deflection: 1 cost, 2 copies. If you know you can boost your odds of making the attack miss, it's some decent direct damage

Force Lightning: Does this mean you can double tap this card and Palptine's ability in one activation for a ton of direct damage to pass around?

Force Rush: 0 cost and 2 movement points seems like a must-have utility card

Hunt Them Down: The Quiz will really lay some hurting out with this, though at 2 points, it depends what else you're running I guess

I Can Feel It: 0 cost utility card to re-roll an attack or defence die? No reason not to take it

Knowledge and Defense: This probably works best with Jedi Luke when you're activating him first to commit him to a spot where he can weather a lot of incoming fire. Force your opponent to basically ignore him with double whites and the threat of his Deflection ability to ensure his survival into the next round to make some problems for your opponent as the casualties on both sides mount and you're sitting on those largely undamaged 12pts.

Lure of the Dark Side: Very situational for 3pts, but it also has the potential to do some terrible things. It's likely this will be useful with New Vader who can spare the action and still Choke/Attack at the end of the round. I never felt it was worth it with The Quiz who already has some interesting attacks to choose from. Will you ever have Palpatine reliably that close to capitalize on it?

Telekinetic Throw: You're probably better off choking with Vader in addition to your attack, probably the same with Palpatine and Force Lightning. For the rest of the pack, it's a nice cherry on the sundae if you're not planning on moving, or you do an attack that leaves the target with that 1-3hp left and you really need to close them out.

I realize a lot of the above is situational, but then that's the rub isn't it? You put to many new ridiculous Force User cards into the pool and someone like The Quiz takes those and the Hunter cards and becomes insane.

If they ever get into making some more useful Brawler cards, Vader, Jedi Luke and Maul might get too good.

A lot of the Force Users have some support role meat to them, so I think turning all Force Users into a Rogue One style "hacking people to death with lightsabers" embarrassment will steer the game the wrong way. Part of what sets this game up is the various trait interactions. I think each faction will have that one good combat wrecking ball with Vader/Jedi Luke/Maul, and the rest of the Force Users will take on varying degrees of support roles, which is perfectly fine as it will keep the game from becoming nothing but a big Sausage Saber Party.

Of course it looks like Heart is bringing some love to Heavy Weapon and possibly the Vehicle trait by extension, so it's all getting ironed out nicely in the wake of Huntergate.

Force Surge is one of my favorite. Ahsoka will literally be all over the map with these cards. Honestly I think a boost in spy cards makes some of the assassin cards more manageable

8 hours ago, buckero0 said:

Force Surge is one of my favorite. Ahsoka will literally be all over the map with these cards. Honestly I think a boost in spy cards makes some of the assassin cards more manageable

Comms Disruption and Intelligence Leak can help you shut down those Assassinate and Heightened Reflexes plays that ruin everyone's day. You could even keep some eRangers in your own list and play Data Theft to use their own Hunter card against them. Bonus points if you cancelled it, sending it to their discard pile, then use Data Theft to use it against them in the same round.

13 hours ago, buckero0 said:

Force Surge is one of my favorite. Ahsoka will literally be all over the map with these cards. Honestly I think a boost in spy cards makes some of the assassin cards more manageable

Yeah force suge and force rush are great cards.

Thw point is spy cards can inutilizr force users cards too... And more easy than hunter cards due to the cost. But i'm agree more spy cards are needed to prevent free "+3 damage cause i'm a cool hunter" and free "remove your defense cause i'm a cool hunter"

1 hour ago, naitsirk said:

But i'm agree more spy cards are needed to prevent free "+3 damage cause i'm a cool hunter" and free "remove your defense cause i'm a cool hunter"

In this hypothetical Spy list with Ahsoka, after Comms Disruption, Intelligence Leak, Data Theft, you've got points to use on Force User utility, plus the givens that people always find homes for like Celebration, Element of Surprise, Take Initiative, Negation, there's not a ton of room left anyways.

I think more than anything, it's a matter of Rebels not having too many great options with Spy trait deployment groups.

With new Heavy Weapon material, the Sabs would work out well mixed in that list, with Ahsoka and Leia to get those Spy cards off, and loop them as you go. It would just be a matter of getting something else in there to run interference in the board so Ahsoka doesn't get focused down and you lose.

If anything the Rebels might just need more useful Spies, rather than an overall need for new Command Cards.

Id like to see what the droid does before I include Jarod kelvin as a spy.right now he seems too squishy. But Gideon, 3po, Ahsoka and ESabs seems like a start. Drokkatta has crossover with the heavy weapons of the Sabs. I'd probably add Hera and another Sabs unit right now. 3 heavy weapons, 3 spies

ahsoka to jump n and finish things off

its a start anyway

I'd add Mak in that list too. Only 3 points, a sometimes great ability , and His command card is amazing. Especially with Nal Hutta could work well.

1 hour ago, TheWelcomeMat88 said:

I'd add Mak in that list too. Only 3 points, a sometimes great ability , and His command card is amazing. Especially with Nal Hutta could work well.

I'd partially agree with you, if you had Hera to back him up. He's a weird character because he kind of looks like he should be a sniper, but without the means to reroll his dice, your accuracy can swing from like what, 4-10? That's hard to plan for and you probably want the surge for Critical hit to push damage through, so you probably don't want to fall back on surge for +2 accuracy.

Maybe if you had him focused with Gideon/C-3P0? Even then, a Smuggler is probably more survivable at range with the accuracy debuff and all that mobility for running objectives.

He's just like the bulk of the campaign heroes; interesting, but you typically find better options to fill in the points.

6 hours ago, buckero0 said:

Id like to see what the droid does before I include Jarod kelvin as a spy.

6 hours ago, DerBaer said:

so ... no, jerrad won't be in any of my lists soon. His health is a serious liability and J4X-7 won't be able to keep up well enough nor stay alive long enough. This may be perfect for campaign but lacks enough "oomph" to make it into a serious skirmish game. Drokkatta is a beast and looks to be the best unique skirmish figure out of the lot. However, Wookiee is not a very playable trait at the moment even with the spoiled command cards. KoTun is usable, and a different type of support which is good. AtDP is awesome, the Riot troops should be awesome if the elite aren't too expensive. I had high hopes for the Sentry droids, but the regulars are very lackluster and I'm afraid the elite may be worse due to cost unless they have a serious damage and health boost for their cost. I haven't played enough with the Shapeshifters. I think the elite shapeshifters will be fantastic, and one of the reasons I am in adamant opposition to messing with Temp Alliance for the Mercs is so that you can actually play a competitive Spy themed list in the Merc faction, which you will only be able to do by drawing in some Rebels.

On 03/09/2017 at 9:46 PM, cleardave said:

Care to share the list?

Sure. After toying with Davith and Diala and finding them both inadequate (Diala is semi useless, whilst Davith's only role was to eat up an attack from a hunter) I settled on:

Luke

Obi Wan

eEcho

rEcho

Gideon

C3P0

Rebel High Command

My command cards were basically all the force User (minus Telekenitic throw and The alter Mind equivalent), along with SoS, Pummel, Devotion and Planning.

Everything was centred around Luke and Obi Wan, but they struggled to make their points back before being melted.

Of course, it doesn't help that I'm not a very good player and only had a half dozen or so Skirmish games under my belt!

I also find it interesting that Droids (specifically junk droid) lists are now being considered as overpowered.

To me, each of the traits should have a role and a different approach to the game;

Hunters: Spike damage

Guardians: Damage mitigation

Leaders: Support

Smugglers: Agile and evasive

Spies: Command Card manipulation

Troopers: Swarming

Heavy Weapons: Area of Effect damage

Force Users: ??

As mentioned above, force users shouldn't just be about swinging lightsabers around, but right now they don't seem to have any particular strength at all.

In fact, I think the same could be said for a few of the traits that are less fleshed out. Perhaps the reason that these specific lists are now considered overpowered is that they're more 'complete', whilst the others aren't. But when will the rest be fully rounded? It doesn't seem like HotE really brings any group to the fore.

Force users: consistent damage.

Interesting list.

Droids: Recyclable command cards.