For a long time the tie fighter never sat right with me.

I did not understand why the empire with all its resources would waste talented pilots in such disposeable ships.

Then I realized while ties do fly in battles they are not made for battle. They are made to project force across a galaxy.

If your a civilian in a non militarized space ship tie fighters are terrifying. They may be no more durable than most space ships but they are fast and have weapons. They don't need durability because killing a tie fighter is a bad idea as tie fighters only operate in range of back up.

They were produced in mass by a republic that transitioned into a totalitarian regime. They were never made to fight a war they were made to oppress common people.

I agree with you. The Empire spanned hundreds of thousands of planets and had to have some presence in most of them. But as they say, "The Weapon doesn't reach as far as the fear of the Weapon".
A single TIE Fighter was enough to bully an entire unarmed civilian convoy or settlement.
The Empire had won the war, so most of the time, there was no retaliation to be expected. It makes no sense to produce expensive, shielded, heavy armed fighters when what you need to do is basically police civilians. And most of your pilots will not be veteran aces, but whatever to fill up the numbers needed.

In the old canon, when there was some expected threat, and a star destroyer wasn't available, the Empire used assault gunboats to escort convoys, or to soften pirate or militia bases. That is, properly shielded and heavy armed ships.
In the new canon, Gozantis carrying TIE fighters are a kind of a hack of a solution that almost shows the Empire improvising to do what they need to do with the little they have, or something. At least until the introduction of TIE Defenders in Rebels, but I am not sure they will ever become anything more than a prototype line.

Also FFG and game design policy is to blame: Most civilian ships shouldn't seem nearly as good as the Falcon. Heck, they should be falcon sized but have 1 attack die and 2 green and like 8 hull. Even a Tie fighter could probably take them down.

When you asked " Are tie fighters the cop cars of the Star Wars galaxy?" I instantly assumed it's because in the movies all the cop cars blow up/crash in a variety of spectacular ways as soon as the bad guns even point a gun at them...

It was as much a show of force and fear tactic. Remember if Ties were in the vicinity there was also a carrier of some kind as well which was usually somewhat scarier. As for disposable, what did plapy care, dude was sith...........

It makes a lot of sense. The Empire didn't have much in the way of opposition, so having numerous platforms to chase down people could have been more important than actual fighting ability. Then, once the rebellion got organised, the Empire started developing better fighters (Gunboat, Interceptor, Defender, Advanced, etc.), but due to bureaucracy and logistics, lots of the old basic TIE remained kicking about.

The Empire had large quantities of manpower, so they could afford losses of pilots.

The TIE fighter was less than half the cost of an X-Wing, so having two short range escort fighters for less than half the cost of 1 X-Wing was probably good planning, as the fighters didn't rewuire some of the X-Wing functions (hyperdrive, munitions etc.).

I kinda thought Dewbacks were the cop cars of the Star Wars galaxy, myself.

1 hour ago, Porkchop Express said:

The Empire had large quantities of manpower, so they could afford losses of pilots.

The TIE fighter was less than half the cost of an X-Wing, so having two short range escort fighters for less than half the cost of 1 X-Wing was probably good planning, as the fighters didn't rewuire some of the X-Wing functions (hyperdrive, munitions etc.).

I agree. These cheap fighters allow the Empire to convert manpower (pilots), its most plentiful resource, into firepower at the greatest possible rate. It also can afford to field large numbers of carriers, negating the need for independent hyperdrives on every ship and furthering its cost-efficiency.

4 hours ago, Azrapse said:

In the new canon, Gozantis carrying TIE fighters are a kind of a hack of a solution that almost shows the Empire improvising to do what they need to do with the little they have, or something. At least until the introduction of TIE Defenders in Rebels, but I am not sure they will ever become anything more than a prototype line.

It's been my observation that the Empire's use of Gozantis was most prevalent immediately after the Clone Wars, and they appear less frequently and less importantly the closer we get to ANH. This leads me to think the Gozantis fitted for Imperial use started as a stopgap measure until the Empire could get Raiders and Arquitens Cruisers in enough numbers to more effectively recon and patrol. The Gozantis should continue to have a role in missions more suited for its design.

I'll add something here. It's not just that TIE Fighters are cheap to make, it's that they're cheap to operate from a logistical point of view. They draw at least some power from nearby stars, and they lack some of the more complex components found in heavier starships. This reduces the training time and workload of maintenance staff. It also makes flight time much easier to come by for pilots in training. This means they have more quality hours in ship before they see combat, even if the ship isn't as capable as a more expensive one. It is capable in the combat role it was designed for (dogfighter), and the extra experience counts when used in that role, as illustrated in the first Death Star assault. Those TIEs were outnumbered, faced the best of the Rebellion's pilots, and almost won.

5 hours ago, Rat of Vengence said:

When you asked " Are tie fighters the cop cars of the Star Wars galaxy?" I instantly assumed it's because in the movies all the cop cars blow up/crash in a variety of spectacular ways as soon as the bad guns even point a gun at them...

I 100% thought the exact same thing. Thank you!

4 hours ago, Hawkstrike said:

I kinda thouDewbacks were the cop cars of the Star Wars galaxy, myself.

Nah, Dewbacks are the Mopeds for the star waras Rentacops.

So, the technical definition of "Air Superiority" (which can be extended to Space Superiority) can be roughly summarized as "the condition where you're free to run your air, land and sea operations without prohibitive interference by the opposing air force". A fighter with a "superiority role" is designed to achieve this state, or the one beyond it "Air Supremacy" (where you have such control of the airspace that the opposing force can basically do nothing).

To this end, the humble TIE/LN is a Superiority frame - they're cheap and simple enough you can make enough of them they can act as high volumes of escorts for other ships, they are maneuverable and quick enough to run interception or otherwise engage enemy fighters and in a pinch, they can strafe the ground if somebody is impeding your combat operations there. They aren't necessarily flexible or multi-role, they're just simple enough the Empire can execute on their typical tactic of bringing enough gun.

As for stuff like Rebels using TIEs on Gozantis for everything well, some of that is practical. Computers aren't magic, every new ship model for the show is a new animation model which needs to be rigged, textured, etc. It can be a time consuming and expensive process, and likely they only have so much budget for new models (characters/ships/environments) per season. While we knew that the Empire made use of Clone Wars surplus for a while, the fact that Gozanti and Arquitens with slightly different colorations and designs are so prominent in Rebels is almost assuredly because they already had those models for TCW and could slightly adjust them. A gunboat would be an entirely new model creation, with different geometry, coloration, etc.

That and I think somebody on the Rebels writing staff was molested by ordinance as a child or something, considering how rarely they remember that torpedoes and missiles are supposed to be really good and actually use them in the show.

7 hours ago, Hawkstrike said:

I kinda thought Dewbacks were the cop cars of the Star Wars galaxy, myself.

Surely it's the cloud car.

A dewback, in a cloud car.

10 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Also FFG and game design policy is to blame: Most civilian ships shouldn't seem nearly as good as the Falcon. Heck, they should be falcon sized but have 1 attack die and 2 green and like 8 hull. Even a Tie fighter could probably take them down.

I blame the movies' representation just as much. Like, Rey's choice of a getaway ship was a Quadjumper. It's a freaking tugboat, Rey! It's like you have to flee from people chasing you on motorcycles, so you steal a farm tractor.

You're not far off, really!

It also makes sense with the Imperial star destroyer doctrine: You have a massive warship show up that, under 90% of circumstances, more or less automatically defeats almost anything an errant pirate or newly rebelling star system can oppose it in highhandedly. The problem is that even if your ship can win anything singlehandedly, there's only one of them.

But star systems are big, and pirates and rebels are a fickle lot, disinclined to stay in one place. In ground combat, the old adage is that you can't truly hold ground until the infantry show up; part of the logic is that you simply need the extra eyes and ears and every-nook-and-cranny capacity to have an area properly under your control. In the world of Magic Space Wizards, one imagines busy orbitals end up being similar in terms of being able to be thorough.

So: You have a vast quantity of small, well armed, very very fast craft who can act as pursuit, patrol, and sweeper teams as part of a suppression & search operations, in which the quality of the ship matters far less than that it is a) a ship that is b) dangerous.

Even the TIE Bombers make sense in this sense: Fly a dozen TIE fighters scattered to do the investigation of the busy parts of town, with the TIE Bombers sitting back as a kind of SWAT team who leap into action when you know where the enemy is, and want to blow something up. Too big for a couple missiles and/or torpedoes? It's probably a capital ship. You have a Star Destroyer for those... see also: Automatically wins.

This also then helps make sense in the development of the TIE Interceptor: "Hey, uh, guys? We're starting to run into firefights serious enough, often enough, that the losses are starting to take a toll. Could we maybe have something with more shooty so it's a fairer fight against those sodding rebels?"

2 minutes ago, Reiver said:

But star systems are big, and pirates and rebels are a fickle lot, disinclined to stay in one place. In ground combat, the old adage is that you can't truly hold ground until the infantry show up; part of the logic is that you simply need the extra eyes and ears and every-nook-and-cranny capacity to have an area properly under your control. In the world of Magic Space Wizards, one imagines busy orbitals end up being similar in terms of being able to be thorough.

So: You have a vast quantity of small, well armed, very very fast craft who can act as pursuit, patrol, and sweeper teams as part of a suppression & search operations, in which the quality of the ship matters far less than that it is a) a ship that is b) dangerous.

Like the old saying goes, the first rule of winning a gunfight is to bring a gun. Likewise, the first rule of winning a space battle is to bring a space ship. That's what TIE Fighters are, the baseline requirement for a combat spaceship.

I can't believe all this Rebel propaganda! TIE spacecraft aren't cheap and disposable! They are effecient and effective advanced technology. They also provide protection for their valued crew with ejection seats and provide comfort in a spacious and pressurized cockpit. Shielding, both particle and ray, provide adequate insulation from the dangers of space debris and radiation. Complex and powerful targeting computers and effecient laser cannons create a kill zone anywhere the TIE starfighter flies.

Last but not least the small put powerful twin engines provide control and thrust that few Rebel craft can match, much less exceed without resorting to bulky and wasteful designs.

surely the TIE starfighter and the entire series of TIE craft are marvels are modern technology and among the finest weapon systems in he galaxy!

9 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Like the old saying goes, the first rule of winning a gunfight is to bring a gun. Likewise, the first rule of winning a space battle is to bring a space ship. That's what TIE Fighters are, the baseline requirement for a combat spaceship.

They are also not too bad compared to other ships;

They have heavier armour than a Z-95 or A-wing - granted no shields, but still.

They pack a pair of medium laser cannons, where the above ships carry light laser cannons (too small a difference to show up in X-wing but in Age of Rebellion the TIE fighter's fractionally better armour and fractionally better guns means it'll eat a Z-95 about eight times out of ten, despite the shields)

And, as noted, it's a simple design to mass-produce. The Empire is always the one turning up with three times your numbers of fighters; if you plan on using fighters as an expendable asset (which is the kind of mindset both sides came away from the Clone wars with), then making it just good enough to be a credible threat makes sense.

In RL there are discussions how much sense it makes to invest a lot in F-35s and similar high tech weapons when all the actual military operations are asymetrical conflicts there an F-15 or an F-18 would do the job just as good.

It's been a standing debate since right the way back to the Sci-Fi story "superiority" - I think it was Arthur C Clarke?

But yes, and that goes double for the Empire, who are given to a combination of slave labour and droid-based mass production, which is great for churning out 1,000,000 cheap things to X acceptable standard, but not for fettling and customising.

These are police cars (in the background)

1 hour ago, Foxtr0t said:

These are police cars (in the background)

More like police vans, maybe.

2 hours ago, Hannes Solo said:

In RL there are discussions how much sense it makes to invest a lot in F-35s and similar high tech weapons when all the actual military operations are asymetrical conflicts there an F-15 or an F-18 would do the job just as good.

There's also a debate about the F35s suitability to a protracted high intensity conflict due to the high levels of support required. In war, conditions tend to be suboptimal, which is especially bad for complex systems. The TIE Fighter very much resembles Russian/Soviet design philosophy in that respect. It's capable, but modestly priced and expendable.