Cannot Get Your Ship Out! September 2017!

By geek19, in Star Wars: Armada

You know, I was thinking about the problem a little differently, but came to a similar conclusion.

Start with essentially the same premise as Ginkapo. Konstantine's value is in splitting the enemy force, but he has to have medium ships in at least long range to do so. That means you're eating reds from the part of the fleet that you "split off", which wouldn't be too big a deal, except every med+ Imperial ship has no (native) evade. So you need to find a way to split the force in such a way that your primarily-threatened ships have evades, but you don't have medium+ ships that can do that. Which means you might prefer that your fleet be split between two categories of ship. I was thinking of them as:

"Triggers"--a pair of fast, fairly agile medium ships to set off Konstantine. Ideally, these would have evades, so you could drop Needa on one and activate the other early to try and minimize the number of ranged shots it eats.

"Exploiters"--something with evades to weather the long-range fire and make splitting the fleet worthwhile, but also limited threat range to maximize your points efficiency (that is, you're not paying for reds you're not planning to use). Alternatively, these might take the form of a strong long-range platform that can sit far enough behind the kill-zone as to not be eating shots from the "split" part of the fleet and can focus down the "prey". This variant would not need to be evade-centric, but would need to put through strong, efficient long range fire.

There aren't a lot of options for triggers--it's pretty much a QF, an ISD, or an Interdictor+ET. Speed 2 is just too slow to get out into and back out of the flanking positions you'd need to set up to catch and then avoid the bulk of the enemy fleet. QF is the most cost-effective option, but doesn't bring a lot to the long-range fight, and only has a single brace/redirect to replace with a Needa evade. Interdictor+ET can bring a lot to the overall fight in addition to the trigger role, but isn't cheap and thus starts to eat into your exploiter budget. The ISD is a fantastic platform, but ends up kind of having to perform double duty if you're going to go that direction.

The exploiters is an easier problem. The role can be filled by Raiders or Glads. You could even forego the Demo title in this scenario if you're feeling froggy. I've also played with the idea of a pile of bombers filling this role. You could try to extract value from Konnie by not having to activate the bombers, since you could tarpit the prey and keep them in range until dead, but then you're still looking at the squadron points spent on fighters, and they really would need to be "kill the other guy's squadrons" fighters rather than a defensive escort, so you lose some efficiency there too.

So, put it all together, and I like the idea of a pair of very lightly-loaded QFs in the wings, pushing your fighter defense screen, and then a few Raiders or a couple of GSDs in your backfield as the catchers. I lean toward the Raiders because, when you're throwing two fairly-vulnerable QFs out front of the fleet, you really want activations to minimize the shots they're eating. I'm not sure exactly how I would build this out, as points get tight fast when you're buying two QFs for a flanking role, but it's at least a framework for approaching Konstantine listbuilding.

The biggest issue is how in the world can you recapture enough value with your exploiters to justify a 108-point minimum investment on those QFs. Bearing in mind that you could instead just buy an ISD1 with those points and use a different admiral. ISDs are really good at splitting up fleets too: by shooting the other half .

@Ginkapo ER/DC Raiders sounds ok in theory to me. They have the agility to chase anything, and can be vicious in wolf packs. Maybe use the idea of dual QFs pushing a defensive screen?

@Ardaedhel Efficient long range fire sounds like either D.C. V-2, an I-2, or a Cymoon. Upside of these shooters is that once you're in range of the shooter, you only need one other med+ floating around to hold it there(ish).

Another thought that just occurred to me, what of using a Kuat and Cymoon in parallel, the theory here being that anything the charging Kuat doesn't obliterate outright is now behind/around it, being Konstantined into the Cymoon following up behind? (Other than that several other admirals seem to be a more obvious fit)

So I directed some friends to your 'starting Armada' posts, and as I was reading the Imperial article it hit me that maybe the Light Carrier is a better add than the Raider and Gozanti. It improves the Victory with Disposable Caps and Quad Battery Turrets, lets you Navigate with the VSD versus being forced to use Squadron commands, and with the Stronghold title also protects your fragile TIEs.

2 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

So I directed some friends to your 'starting Armada' posts, and as I was reading the Imperial article it hit me that maybe the Light Carrier is a better add than the Raider and Gozanti. It improves the Victory with Disposable Caps and Quad Battery Turrets, lets you Navigate with the VSD versus being forced to use Squadron commands, and with the Stronghold title also protects your fragile TIEs.

Let me give it some thought, but I could definitely see setting up a "combat ship starter" (which is what is currently there) versus a "carrier fleet starter" (which would feature a Quasar and a squadron pack or two). Both are legitimate starting places depending on what the player's initial interest is.

1 hour ago, Snipafist said:

Let me give it some thought, but I could definitely see setting up a "combat ship starter" (which is what is currently there) versus a "carrier fleet starter" (which would feature a Quasar and a squadron pack or two). Both are legitimate starting places depending on what the player's initial interest is.

Well, I mean, a Victory, an Arquitens, and a Demolisher are plenty solid combat ships, and one Light Carrier with EHB can push almost all your squadrons if you're bare bones.

Beginning list?

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 399/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures (7 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
= 132 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 64 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Wulff Yularen ( 7 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Nav Team ( 4 points)
- Expanded Launchers ( 13 points)
= 94 total ship cost

Quasar Fire II-class Cruiser-Carrier (61 points)
- Pursuant ( 2 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
= 68 total ship cost

5 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 40 points)

Wulff+Nav Team+Jerry lets the Glad keep a Nav token, spend it it almost like a dial, and Engineer every turn to repair damage while still brutalizing the enemy. The Vic does long range opening shots from its big front arc, preferably against something fast which can't take two shots of 4 blues and 3 reds (man, I wish we had Leading Shots for this list!) and then Navs+Jerrys to keep enemies in arc the rest of the game. The Arkitten circles and snipes. While the Quasar Fire isn't AS good without Boosted Comms, going for the -II lets you add some battlefield capacity in there while taking Pursuant to let you push fighters while still Engineering/Navigating.

I don't know if it's a GOOD list. But it's a list with a solid plan for victory, and one that I wouldn't mind taking too badly.

The objectives are mostly random.

EDIT: For some reason the list builder didn't include the Minister Tua upgrade and I had to delete a TIE squadron to account for it. <_< Don't know if I like that though... Hmm...

Edited by iamfanboy
8 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

Well, I mean, a Victory, an Arquitens, and a Demolisher are plenty solid combat ships, and one Light Carrier with EHB can push almost all your squadrons if you're bare bones.

(snip)

Wulff+Nav Team+Jerry lets the Glad keep a Nav token, spend it it almost like a dial, and Engineer every turn to repair damage while still brutalizing the enemy. The Vic does long range opening shots from its big front arc, preferably against something fast which can't take two shots of 4 blues and 3 reds (man, I wish we had Leading Shots for this list!) and then Navs+Jerrys to keep enemies in arc the rest of the game. The Arkitten circles and snipes. While the Quasar Fire isn't AS good without Boosted Comms, going for the -II lets you add some battlefield capacity in there while taking Pursuant to let you push fighters while still Engineering/Navigating.

I don't know if it's a GOOD list. But it's a list with a solid plan for victory, and one that I wouldn't mind taking too badly.

The objectives are mostly random.

It's not a bad overall approach, I mostly just feel like the Quasar would like some more squadrons and perhaps a Gozanti friend to really shine. The list you presented is something of a hybrid between the combat starter and the squadron starter I'm imagining. It's going to be a busy weekend for me, but I should hopefully get something up in a few days.

I will add that because Planetary Ion Cannon comes in Corellian Conflict, that's a no go. Keeping the upgrade cards and objectives consistent with the recommended purchases can get a bit tricky, I've found ;).

Edited by Snipafist

That's what FABs fleet builder is great for. Just plug in the sets you have and it only lets you use those cards. No accidents .

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

That's what FABs fleet builder is great for. Just plug in the sets you have and it only lets you use those cards. No accidents .

I otherwise don't really care much for it compared to Armada Warlords or the Ryan Kingston Builder, but for that specific use it is quite handy I gladly admit.

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

That's what FABs fleet builder is great for. Just plug in the sets you have and it only lets you use those cards. No accidents .

Right now I'm on a cellular hotspot connection with terrible bandwidth so I was just using the beta Armada Warlords Fleet Builder - the really cut down one - and pretty much clicked at random for the objectives.

And yes, I'd prefer to have more squadrons myself with a Quasar, but which pack to recommend? It'd only come to $10 more than your current build (if we're taking out the Raider and Gozanti!).

Hammerheads. It took like a solid week of writing, i have been busy. Next up is revamping ALL the old commander and ship articles.... hoo boy.

(PS, that's why if you look for links to the Hammerhead elsewhere in the blog, they dont exist yet. Updates with those soon enough, after i clean up all my old articles)

https://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/09/hammerheads-costco-brand-raiders.html

Good reading!!

7 hours ago, geek19 said:
Hammerheads. It took like a solid week of writing, i have been busy. Next up is revamping ALL the old commander and ship articles.... hoo boy.

(PS, that's why if you look for links to the Hammerhead elsewhere in the blog, they dont exist yet. Updates with those soon enough, after i clean up all my old articles)

https://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/09/hammerheads-costco-brand-raiders.html

I was just getting ready to build a Leia fleet using HHs for FCs....

Guess I'm just going back to the AF lol

Excellent article, thanks!!!

Rebel Commanders I've updated with links:

Jan Dodonna
Garm Bel Iblis
Mon Mothma
Carlist Rieekan
Admiral Gial Ackbar
Airen Cracken
Crix Madine
Leia Organa (Commander)

Minor grammatical changes to them all as well, but no major new content. Sato is not on here because he deserves a rewrite, but that's likely weekend work.

Any Admiral that I can strongly suggest using Hammerheads with (Mothma and Madine, for example) got a slight blurb in their "common ships" sections. I don't have full experience trying all of these out, but I will update these when/if I get experience and try them.

18 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Thanks to @Darth Sanguis for providing us with the opportunity to try these out.

Not a problem at all, thanks for giving them a try!

The squadron plates kinda show the "good-but-impractical idea" of having health measurements on bases, particularly in a measurement-decisive game where you have to pick up the pieces and then place them back down. I remember back when Mechwarrior Dark Ages came out and becoming quite furious at a friend that kept purposely placing his pieces in the slightly wrong spot...

I really need to get those washers to put underneath the squadrons.

28 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

The squadron plates kinda show the "good-but-impractical idea" of having health measurements on bases, particularly in a measurement-decisive game where you have to pick up the pieces and then place them back down. I remember back when Mechwarrior Dark Ages came out and becoming quite furious at a friend that kept purposely placing his pieces in the slightly wrong spot...

I really need to get those washers to put underneath the squadrons.

Ya know, it's strange but John really brought up a good point when he said " I had seen them before as mainly useful for people who were really specific about where squadrons were placed and everything had to be put back down to the MICROMETER. They're not that; they're a tool to make your activations faster and easier by indicating who's going after what when."

I had designed them to prevent bumps and maintain position, but I think that's mostly a side effect compared to the effect they have on simplifying and speeding up squadron activations.