Last night three of us played Talisman 4th using Frost March Expansion. The game lasted 3.5 to 4 hours. We had very little to no interuptions. To speed game up we only had to turn in 5 trophies to gain Strength or Craft. We also used the warlock quest alternate ending card. Great times, but I would like this game to be able to finish in 3 hours or less.

Please give me your best ideas to keeping the game to a max of 3hrs, and allowoing the game to finish through normal game conditions.

First, a question: How much of that time was after the first adventurer seized control of the Crown of Command?

I've seen games where up to a third of game time is spent in the ending. It depends of course on how many players are at the table and still alive by the time the Crown is first seized; more players, the longer for the typical game ending. If the typical ending is taking more than 30 minutes, then here's two of the most commonly played options.

King of the Hill.
Simple, first one to the CoC wins.

King of the Hill, Modified.
Same principle, but you allow the chance of someone catching up. The first one to the CoC can use the Command spell, but one round of turns is given to all players for any to breach the Inner Region. If no one succeeds in enter the Inner Region before the crown holders next turn, that holder wins. If one round is seen as not enough by the majority of your group, then increase it to 2, 3, etc. rounds. This should be enough to still trim off 30 minutes on average for a 3 player game and still allow for a possible turnabout.

We modify the King of the Hill a bit as well. If no one is in the Inner Region the first one to the CoC wins, otherwise it is to the bitter end.

The options in the rules are pretty good too but they are not normal game conditions. I particularly like the inheritance option.

Give a prize to the person that gets to the CoC in 3 hours or less. I recommend reserving the last chocolat chip cookie or other valuable dessert for this situation.

JCHendee said:

Probably 0 minutes, since OP (had initially Velhart here, just looked at avatar ) said they used the Warlock Quests ending, meaning land on CoC, game ends (unless for some reason some idiot went there with less than 4 completed Quests).

I know I'm in a very different boat from yours, average time for Talisman (3-p) is 60 minutes, even the Ice Queen ending average has started to come down of late (just hit the Dungeon earlier I've noticed). And you're using 5-point trophy variant as well (I run standard 7-point trophy). So have to ask, what kind of stats did you guys have at the end?

My rule of thumb is: base stat (the one you'll need on the Inner Region more) 8+ and a Talisman -> go for the Crown. If you don't have Fate, maybe hold for 10. Warlock Quests ending is basically the same, just have 4+ completed Quests (and the 4th Quest takes care of the Talisman issue). Ice Queen, you want 15 points in combat (battle or psychic), with still the 8+ for Mines/Crypt. If taking Mines (aka Craft-path), you want Strength around 5-6 in battle.

The time it takes to play through a game has fallen quite considerably since the release of the Dungeon I believe. Also, the number of players is a definate factor. My wife and I can usually complete a game in about 90 minutes or so and neither of us tend to rush to the Crown of Command space at the earliest opportunity. If I invited a couple of friends round then I would expect a longer game; possibly over three hours.

With 2 players and a 5 trophy limit, we will finish the game around 2 1/2 and 3 hours

but with 3 players, the game will take somewhat longer to complete.

So if you count a extra hour for the third player, then you should complete it in 3 1/2 to 4 hours indeed.

You can also begin the game with a extra strength and Craft token, to decrease some time, so that you can still play with normal win conditions.

I'm usually playing 2 player games. I and my friend. And usually we are playing that 3 hours, however we are not rushing ourselves to access CoC space. We are playing for the sake of playing. However my Adventure deck has twice more homebrew cards than original cards, and most of them are more or less deadly (You can check my Chaos Expansion Set on Talisman Island, then You will know how my Talisman is not a Talisman game anymore).

I play most games with my wife and sometimes some friends join us. With my wife games take generally about 90 min. I think it is becouse we know the game so well and there is not so munc to be aware of with two players. As soon as one more is joining in, game usually takes 3-4 hours and four players 4-6 hours. I also think the more people that join in, the more conversation there will be between turns and that slows game too. And then there are the unexperienced players that join in too.

This is my experience.

cheer

The main drag in my games is players being "afk" in the bathroom, getting soda, etc. We use an iPhone/iTouch app and set a 1 minute timer on each person's turn. If they end up fighting another player, they get a second full minute (spells, resolutions, which item/gold/life do I take...).

House rules we also have two variants:

Quick game: each player starts with one extra of whatever trait they choose (life, strength, or craft). This is considered to be part of your strength/life/craft value and cannot be lost by any means.

Quick-Quick game: each player starts with one extra of whatever trait they choose, and if a player reaches the CoC and the other player(s) are not yet at the Portal of Power, the game is over. If the other players ever leave the Portal or inner region while someone is on the CoC, the game is over.

The real drag is in reading the cards. Since we all know what they say, it usually goes fast unless we get a new guy playing who wants to know why he's rolling a d6 on the Crags.

Thank you all for the suggestions. This should help me with cutting down the time.

Thank you,

Bill

vandimar77 said:

Has it? I only played with the Dungeon a few times and no one bothered going inside it. Why? Simply, when you have enough power to explore it you should already be on your way for the Crown.

The only characters that can gain full benefit of going down are Dark Cultist, Ghoul, Troll, Assassin, Necromancer, Ogre Chieftain and maybe Amazon.

Druid must walk around the Outer Region trying to find as many Spells as it's possible.

Knight, Monk and Priest should pray at Chapel, Shrine, Temple, Idol all the time.

Merchant and Thief are doing their business around the Village and Market.

Dwarf should open the Portal to the Inner Region as soon as his Craft is 6 or Higher and he has a Talisman.

Swashbuckler is gaining benefit from Fields spaces so he should also be in the Inner Region.

Elf should stay in his asylum in the Woods until they are blocked by Places or Stangers.

Gladiator doesn't want to go into the Dungeon becouse of the lack of Followers there.

Leprechaun is trying to collect as much gold as it's possible and then eventually spend it in the Academy.

araszewskis said:

I'd agree with this in general. However, Dungeon is the best beef-up place there is, so when using the Ice Queen ending, which requires more beefed-up stats than the regular Inner Region stuff, Dungeon is the place to be. Also, situationally, hitting the Dungeon with Troll, Ogre Chieftain and Necromancer (also Gladiator if he gets a couple of early Followers) very quickly can pay off nicely (like starting stats Ogre Chieftain reaching the CoC in 25 minutes after cashing at 15+ points of Followers vs Lord of Darkness).

If the Swashbuckler is strong enough, he should stay in the dungeon.

With his extra turn's, he can finish the game pretty quick !

Every character that is strong enough for the dungeon can go there.

Even the Druid has defeat the LOD and landed on the Crown

Dam said:

Yes it's most possibly true. Though I don't possess The Frostmarch Expansion due to 'language issues' I think that the alternative endings bring up much more fun to the game. Eventually slow it down a little bit

Velhart said:

That's true, but not the point I think. If you can go the Dungeon, you're also set for the Crown of Command, so why go to the Dungeon? For us, Minstrel has beaten the LoD once, Dwarf also once and Thief actually two times (to mention some of the weaker combat characters).

araszewskis "Though I don't possess The Frostmarch Expansion due to 'language issues' I think that the alternative endings bring up much more fun to the game."

It adds to me unnecessary grind to the game. Instead of going for the end at stat 8+, you're forced to boost up to around 15 in your combat stat, all the while feeling like you're not actually doing anything meaningful (probably because in a normal game you'd have hit the Inner Region way sooner). But then, I'm one of the few who prefers the Crown of Command ending to the current alternate endings (though Warlock Quests can be fun).

Dam said:

Well,... in the Dungeon, you can level up fast. (as you know)

If somebody else go through the inner region, a other character can make himself stronger and stronger, while he is drawing a lot of enemies in the Dungeon.

At the end, he is impossible to beat if he will land directly on the Crown by defeating the LOD.

Unless you try to go as fast as you can with 8 + statistics through the Inner region with fate, while the other player is too weak to catch up through the Dungeon etc.

If a player has a horse, he will reach his goal through the dungeon faster as usual.

Velhart said:

My goal in the Dungeon is to land on "draw 2 cards" and "draw 3 cards" spaces. Reaching the Treasure Chamber isn't that hard once you have the stats (since that end stretch has several of the multiple draw spaces).

Dam said:

True, draw 2 and draw 3 spaces can give you a lot of level ups, if the character is strong enough to handle it.

Meanwhile, a character can also grab a treasure and come back, but i have always stay in the dungeon (at least with the swashbuckler)

That's why i have end that game sooner as usual.

I was once the Warlock and i have taken a path through the inner region.

After that, the Druid suddenly use his Horse and was running from the mainboard through the Dungeon, and was slaying enemies along the way.

As you know, the Inner region takes 5 turns to land on the end spot, but that is enough for the druid to gain incredible statistics while he is heading to the LOD with his horse etc.

Another 60 minute game today, with Leprechaun winning for the first time in his 8th appearance. Now, every character has won at least once. Initial character draw was very balanced, Priest vs Leprechaun vs Ghoul, all with a poor win-loss record, so a suitable draw (random as always). Ghoul was looking like the early challenger, getting +1 Craft at Village, +1 Str at Temple and then getting the Ring (+1 both). But, Reaper had other ideas and landed on the Ghoul: 1, Fate, 1. Ghoul was replaced by the Gladiator, so the Priest and Leprechaun were really wanting to end the game quickly now, Gladiator is one of the real monsters if you let him boost up. But Gladiator was slowed down by Rod of Ruin, zapping 2 Str from him after he had gotten them and then Acquisition of the Ring he had gotten. Priest had Colossus and Gnome at this stage, but no Talisman. So the Leprechaun hit the Inner Region and reached the Crown of Command at 45 minutes. Game would've been over sooner if not for the Priest's 9 Lives (he kept rolling 12 at Temple!) when Leprechaun reached the CoC. But even with 9 Lives and 3 healing trips to the Chapel, the Priest couldn't get to the Inner Region and died.

Leprechaun's stats: Strength 4 (6 in battle due to Sword of Light), Craft 8, Fate 0.

Normally, Craft 8 with no Fate is a bit iffy, but with both Gladiator and Priest better in battle, it was rush or die. Leprechaun rolled 4 at the Mines with 3 dice.

Hi, You guys are all really fast, I must say. It takes me usually about a week to play a game... OK, there are some interrupts like sleepimg, eating and doing other stuff, while the game stays on the living room table, so the actual playing time is probably similar to the 2-3 hours. I also think that the Dungeon is both excellent expansion, and also makes the game shorter and more exciting.

Less players!

We always play 2 or 3 player games which end around 2 or 2.5 hours!

Frog said:

Then just keep on playing. When you get to know the cards you're drawing and the chances you have, game will speed up for sure.

Last Sunday I played two 4-player games from 3 p.m to 8 p.m., with all the expansions and a couple of pauses to eat/drink. Usually it takes 40 minutes per player involved, but in some games victory is delayed in ridiculous manners. I remember a 4 player game where 6 Characters were killed (2 by reaper), for a total of 10 Characters featuring. It lasted a lot, around 5 hours, but that is recorded as one of the most incredible games we had.

Today saw a long game by my standards, 100 minutes. Mainly down to two mid-game deaths on fairly boosted characters, Ogre Chieftain ran into a Craft Enemy streak in the Dungeon and came out looking for healing, when the Wizard teleported to him and killed him (despite the OC have one of the Armour that protects from life loss in psychic combat and Anointed Robe, so saved psychic combat life losses on 4+, but kept failing). Reaper then took exception and killed the Wizard. In the end, Warlock (replacing the Ogre Chieftain) won, despite getting Transferenced by the Druid. 90 card Spell deck had 22 cards left at the end. Warlock reached the Crown of Command and got in his killer combo: Toadify (and had Fate and the Spell that let's you pick your result when using Fate, but rolled 4+ on the first roll). Toad-Druid didn't stand a chance against the Str 18 in battle Warlock.

Dam said:

Hi Dam,

I wish I could see you play a game of Talisman or even take place in a game with you. It sounds like you and your gamer fellowship are very agressive, making the game with a quick end. And funny to read some Talisman "battle" reports - thank you.

cheer

Had another over 90 minutes, under 2 hours game today. Okay, game is a bit misleading, more like pure carnage and blood-letting. 3-players, 8 characters.

Started off as Necromancer vs Philosopher vs Ghoul. Nice, all are 2/4, should be interesting. Then Ghoul, having bought a Raft from a Pedlar and gone to the Middle Region meets Basilisk, dead. Replaced by the Monk, who got a ferry ride from the Tavern not long into the game, went to the Middle Region and took on the Basilisk, dead. Replaced by the Prophetess. Meanwhile, the Philosopher bought the farm (can't to be honest remember how, so much death, could've been the Necromancer PvPing him in psychic combat), replaced by the Knight. Knight was none too happy, since the Necromancer was also Good at this stage ("thanks" to the Mystic). But not to worry, Necromancer didn't last long after that. Despite 2-3 attempts at Str 7 against a Str 5 Enemy, the Necromancer kept failing and then running to the Healer. One more go, with 3 Lives. Attack the Enemy, Ancient Artifact blows up, 2 Lives left, 6 vs 5 battle, fail, 1 Life left. Next turn, rolls a 1 for movement, so still in the Dungeon, draws Black Elf, a Craft Monster, 5 vs 3 psychic combat, dead. Replaced by the Troll. Knight and Troll are getting up in the Strength, but the Prophetess is on the Middle Region and draws Earthquake, removing the Basilisk, leaving the goodies of two dead character up for grabs.

But she isn't ready for the Inner Region and drops back down to visit the Ruins, where Black Unicorn and Colossus are waiting, Knight or Troll can't beat the Black Unicorn. Prophetess does and claim both as Followers, but visits the Chapel to heal up before going for the Crown. Except the Troll rolls a 1 for his movement, then a 3 to move the Reaper to the Prophetess, dead. Replaced by the Sage, who casts Sleep on the Knight and lands in the Chapel, taking the Prophetess' mass of cards. Sage has decent combat stats, but poor raw stats, yet with Knight and Troll approaching double-digits in Strength, the Sage makes a run for it. And is dumped to the Tavern from the Mines, only to roll a 6 and get back to the Middle Region. Knight rushes now and makes it to the Crown. Troll has been doing quick tours of the Dungeon and could challenge, but wants a couple of more points to be sure. He gets them and hits the Inner Region. At the Crown of Command, the Troll first wins the battle and takes the Magic Belt from the Knight. Next, Armour is stripped. Sage is still on the Middle Region, just one point of Strenght below the Troll (in battle) and knows the next card is the Witch. Even with his ability, can't avoid it, Toaded. Knight goes down quickly in the end. Sage has a mass of Gold and Prince and Princess, but fails to reach the Castle, landing at the Idol in the Runes next to it with 2 Lives left. Snake-eyes! Troll stands victorious!

This game was harsh on the win-loss stats: 1 winner, 7 losers .