Is it only me or is it that ranged attacks are better in close combat than melee attacks?... You just take the disengage move action and shoot, point blank +30(easy), his hit ratio will be at 60-70(%), while the closecombat guy only gets the +10 for aiming for a average of 40-50(%) hit ratio... why would anyone want to use a close combat weapon?

I was thinking that i would let them parry the shot(until i quite recentlty discovered that you can't be engaged with the enemy to get the +30 bonus) so now i just dont know what to do.

Have i missed something or is there no real reason to be in close combat(even for an ork?)

"The green tide where running towards the imperial front when they suddenly stopped just within 3 meters and started shooting, the casualties where enourmous"...etc

First of all Disengaging is a Full action, which means you can't just disengage AND shoot in the same round (except you're an assassin with the appropriate talent).

You also forget that of course you can dodge a shot, whether you're in melee or at some range.

As for stopping 3m in front of your enemy when closing with him and then shoot. I see nothing wrong with it, but bear in mind that you already have spent a half action moving towards him, so you at least can't auto fire at him.

Anonymus said:

Assume average (low-end) WS and BS for an Ork to be 45 and 25 respectively. Now assume the Brutal Charge Trait, and the Furious Assault and Berserk Charge talents, a Strength Bonus of 4 (minimum), and a weapon that deals 1d10+1 R damage, Pen 2 (Mono-Axe equivalent). His Shoota is essentially an Armageddon Pattern autogun with manstoppers (S/2/6, 1d10+4 I, Pen 3).

On the charge, the Ork needs a 65 or less (+10 for charging, increased to +20 because of Berserk Charge) to hit, dealing 1d10+8 damage. A single shot at point blank range (after moving to 3m) hits 55% of the time, and deals 4 points less damage (albeit with 1 higher Pen). The charge is preferable, particularly as the enemy can't easily get away during its own turn, meaning you'll probably get to hit them again!

Second round - the Ork either goes for an All-Out Attack (+20 to hit, can't parry or dodge, Furious Assault allows his reaction to be used for an extra attack with the same bonuses) or fires on full auto. You either get 2 attacks at 65%, dealing 1d10+5 each, or one attack at 75% that has a chance to hit multiple times... if the enemy hasn't already counter-charged or moved away (either denying your ability to shoot, or denying you the point blank range bonus). In the second round, yes it's preferable to shoot full-auto and point blank range (only just, though - two chances to hit at 65% is still damned good)... but who in their right mind is going to stand there for a round and let anyone fill them with bullets? Surely in that situation, you pull back to deny them that huge to-hit score, or counter-charge to keep them from shooting altogether?

It does depend on who you are - obviously, someone with no capability in melee will always prefer to shoot... but for creatures and characters focussed on melee, there are real advantages to running up and hitting people in the face. The best warriors will be the ones who can switch easily from one to the other, allowing them to pick which is most advantageous at the time.

Massaker said:

Don't need autofire when you're using a scattershot >

Massaker got there first. Disengage is a full action, perhaps intended to foil such beardy actions as stepping back and shooting someone when you're supposed to be going toe-to-toe with them.

So if you did try to disengage, your opponent would be afforded an entire turn to, say, ready a hack shotgun (half action) and blow you away (half action). Or he could simply charge you (again) and smack you in the face with his lead pipe (full action). And if he's already using a pistol weapon in melee, and the pistol was an autopistol, then you're deader than dead.

It's worth noting that in the Expanded Skills section of the Inquisitor's Handbook you're allowed to disengage as a half-action by making a Challenging Acrobaics test. You disengage either way, but if you fail the test then your opponent (or opponents) get a free melee attack on you with a +10 bonus.

Regarding modifiers for shooting guns in close combat. Remember you are shooting at a person/something in melee. That means you get a -20 modifier by the standard rules. The evens the odds a bit, in my opinion. I personally like the idea that shooting at a person 3 meters from you is very easy, right until the point where he can stab you in the guts, then it gets much more tricky ;-)

Sonny

the -20 is only if your not the one in melee. If your using a pistol in melee you use base BS, (no +30, no -20).

Yep, -20 if you are shooting INTO melee but are not in melee yourself. Sidenote; How much do you need your players to fail their BS-test with to rule that they hit their comrade instead?

Texas_Ben said:

Yeah but that doesn't make it more accurate, still have a fair chance of missing where as the guy in front gets a nice full action to unload into you at point blank range.