I'm sorry if this has been discussed already, but my FFG forum search is erring every time i attempt to search.

Until the end of the round. Looking at the status phase, nothing explicitly denotes "the round has ended." So if there were a figure that finds itself attacking or defending as an "end of round effect," would they be able to take advantage of this card?

So if the figure decided to use the +1 surge, and then gets an end of round attack, could they still +1 surge or has the round ended at that point.

I'm reading the Status phase rules as the round doesn't completely end until Initiative is passed. Am I missing something?

It lasts until the end of round step of the status phase.

During end of round effects it is no longer in effect.

Q: When an ability's effect lasts "until" a certain timing window (e.g. "Until the end of the round..."), does that effect persist through that timing window?

A: No. These abilities' effects end immediately as the specified timing window begins, before any other effects in that timing window are triggered. So, in the given example, the effect that persists "until the end of the round" would expire before any other "end of round" effects are triggered.

and that is the tidbit I was missing. thanks

Would the wording "Until the end of the round" differ from "During this round"? There are a handful of cards with both of those wordings, so it seems to be an intentional difference.

Example, Would Deadly Precision apply to Vader's end of round attack?

"Use at the start of your activation. While attacking during this round, apply -1 (Dodge) to the defense results."

I think that "during this round" means "while the round counter is the same as it is now", but would need to search for rulings or precedents. The alternative is "during this activation phase", which would be almost analogous to "until the end of round".

Clipper seemed to know or assume the latter:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/17413124#17413124

A few cards using "during this round": Adrenaline, Covering Fire, Data Theft, Take Cover.

Right, the question essentially comes down to whether "during this round" includes step 3.

my thought process is essentially that they are different timings. "until end of round" is a very specific timing instance, that occurs at (the beginning) of step 3 of the status phase.

"during this round" appears to be a little different. I interpret this as the end of the round is inherently the last thing to occur during a round. The End of round effects do not mean the round has actually ended, it's just a timing instance used to resolve some abilities. In step 3, when the End of Round effects occur for round 1, you're still actually in Round 1 and this is occurring "during this round", Round 2 won't start until we get to step 4.

3 minutes ago, Fightwookies said:

Right, the question essentially comes down to whether "during this round" includes step 3.

my thought process is essentially that they are different timings. "until end of round" is a very specific timing instance, that occurs at (the beginning) of step 3 of the status phase.

"during this round" appears to be a little different. I interpret this as the end of the round is inherently the last thing to occur during a round. The End of round effects do not mean the round has actually ended, it's just a timing instance used to resolve some abilities. In step 3, when the End of Round effects occur for round 1, you're still actually in Round 1 and this is occurring "during this round", Round 2 won't start until we get to step 4.

I argue that the timing instance is the same. During this round occurs until the round ends. So the ending of the round is still the trigger, and determining said trigger is the question. Based on the previous posts, beginning of Stage 3 seems to be the "end" of the round.

On 9/1/2017 at 0:49 PM, a1bert said:

It lasts until the end of round step of the status phase.

During end of round effects it is no longer in effect.

FAQ 2.3 said:

Q: When an ability's effect lasts "until" a certain timing window (e.g. "Until the end of the round..."), does that effect persist through that timing window?

A: No. These abilities' effects end immediately as the specified timing window begins, before any other effects in that timing window are triggered. So, in the given example, the effect that persists "until the end of the round" would expire before any other "end of round" effects are triggered.

So I read this as Step 3 happening in between rounds (ending round, and beginning of the next round).

I tend to come to the conclusion that they need to be the same. In effect End of Round is a trigger just before increasing of the round dial.

(To avoid exploits, Wookiees need to lose their additional Health from Adrenaline before the skirmish mission ends due to time called during the round, so Adrenaline last only until the end of end of round.)

5 minutes ago, a1bert said:

I tend to come to the conclusion that they need to be the same. In effect End of Round is a trigger just before increasing of the round dial.

(To avoid exploits, Wookiees need to lose their additional Health from Adrenaline before the skirmish mission ends due to time called during the round, so Adrenaline last only until the end of round.)

So with this ruling, wookiees with adrenaline (and damage above their regular health) would die before scoring objectives they control?

1 minute ago, Masterchiefspiff said:

So with this ruling, wookiees with adrenaline (and damage above their regular health) would die before scoring objectives they control?

There's no ruling yet.

At least they would need to lose their Health before the mission ends and winner is determined.

True, I meant if that's the ruling I guess. Trickiness of words and such why we're in most of these messes anyways haha

But I'd agree they need to die and be scored for figure points before the final outcome is determined.

I sent in a question to FFG for clarification.

Until an proper ruling: I heard that FFG has consistently ruled that "During this round" persists through end of round effects until the start of the following round.

On 9/8/2017 at 2:25 PM, Fightwookies said:

I sent in a question to FFG for clarification.

How long do they take to reply typically?

7 business days and I'm losing hope that I'll get a reply.

I'd say End of Round is a timing instance, including:

a) End of Round mission effects

b) End of Round player with initiative effects

c) End of Round other player effects

After all these effects, the End of Round timing instance ends. Therefore the round ends, and all effects that are active"during this round" end when the End of Round ends, not before the End of Round starts.

Rules Question:
I've been discussing with friends if there is a difference between the phrasing "during this round" and "until the end of the round". I know that effects lasting 'until the end of round" would expire prior to step 3 of the status phase, but I'm wondering if "during this round" effects would still be in effect. For example, if "Driven by Hatred" Darth Vader plays "Deadly Precision" during his activation, will the -1 dodge still apply to his attack during the end of round? Thanks, Dane

"Hi Dane,

Therefore, Adrenaline ends after the Wookies scored during End of Round mission effects.

Resurrecting this thread to see if there's clarity about the Adrenaline exploit -- seems relevant with more and more Chewie builds.

So during a tournament, if Adrenaline is played in round 3 and time is called, Chewie takes, say, 18 damage (but has 19 health for the round):
There is still a moment in which Chewie's health is reduced back to 14 and his figure is defeated before the match ends, correct? That is, it is still in some point of resolving round 3, and not, say, the beginning of an unplayed round 4 (since time was called and you simply finish round 3), that "during this round" wears off?

I'm having trouble clarifying exactly when that happens based on this thread.

Seems like the consensus is that Adrenaline works more like Maul's Sustained by Rage (it allows the possibility of an activation and it controls the flow of when points are scored) than as a way to save Wookies from certain doom, though, right?

1 hour ago, GottaBadFeelingAboutThis said:

That is, it is still in some point of resolving round 3, and not, say, the beginning of an unplayed round 4 (since time was called and you simply finish round 3), that "during this round" wears off?

My initial reaction is that the Wookiees die at the end of Round 3 but that is a good question.

To really complicate things, what if your Wookiees and your opponent's Wookiees would both die at the end of Round 3 due to Adrenaline? What if one or both of you would go above 40 points? Would one player win (and end the game) before the other Wookiees die? It isn't a mission effect so presumably it would trigger in initiative order instead of simultaneously??

*double post

Adrenaline is "during this round", which includes the end of round step, but expires before the next round.

I don't think the next round actually needs to start, so Adrenaline's effect would expire before points are counted when a mission ends due to time limit. I have mentioned this to Todd, but I'm not sure if any actions have been taken.

In the ruling above, Todd says that "during this round" effects wear off essentially at the "last event of the round." If you play Adrenaline in round 3, once the round comes to a close, it's not round 3 anymore, so adrenaline is gone. Whether round 4 starts or not wouldn't impact that Round 3 is now over.

35 minutes ago, Fightwookies said:

In the ruling above, Todd says that "during this round" effects wear off essentially at the "last event of the round." If you play Adrenaline in round 3, once the round comes to a close, it's not round 3 anymore, so adrenaline is gone. Whether round 4 starts or not wouldn't impact that Round 3 is now over.

You both match my gut sense here (that a wookie WOULD be scored before the match formally ends, if that round ends on time).

I think the sentence in red below is probably the rules sentence that matches it, but I think there's still room for confusion:

Quote

Time under End of Round on page 14 of the Official Tournament Rules wrote :
( https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/f4/40/f4400bca-e56e-4a77-8da0-fe064db39129/swi_tournament_regulations_v30_text_version.pdf )

"Time: After completing the Status Phase, if time has been called. (If time is called during a game round, players must finish that game round.) Each player then calculates their total victory points from defeated figures, card effects, and mission effects. The player with the most victory points earns a win and their opponent receives a loss."

So in a timed game, you will complete the Status Phase, then calculate total victory points, including from defeated figures . The question is whether the Wookies are ever technically defeated.

It feels like they should be, but if the game ends concurrently with Adrenaline wearing off, perhaps there's never technically a "during-game moment" in which the wookies have damage matching or exceeding their health value? So there's potentially never a moment in which the game's rules for defeating a figure apply to the wookies?

To frame it in Fightwookies' terms above: "the last event of the round" is over ... but isn't the game also? So the effect wears off, but so does gameplay. In this rarified situation, is an over-damaged wookie left unscored?

When the status phase is complete, the round is over. So the wookies are defeated by the time you’re calculating points.

15 hours ago, Fightwookies said:

When the status phase is complete, the round is over. So the wookies are defeated by the time you’re calculating points.

Think so, too.