If I have Thweek in my list, and my opponent has Thweek in theirs, what happens if I Shadow one of his other ships, and he Mimics one of mine? Do we both gain both the pilot skill of his squad mate and the ability of mine? The Mimiced condition card states that ""Thweek" is treated as having your pilot ability" and Shadowed states that ""Thweek" is treated as having the pilot skill you had during setup", neither one specifies that it has to be your enemies Thweek. Does it apply to both? If so, what if we both Mimic? And what if we both shadow? Does the person with initiative set the pilot skill for both, then the other one sets it, making it the one shadowed last? I'm so confused!

edit: Honestly, I think it needs to be in the Q&A in the back of the FAQ.

It probably will be FAQed once it's actually out.

Best guess is that if Thweek copies someone's ability, he now is treats as having that text on his card, so enemy Thweek then copies that text NOT the ability to put down conditions.

And he can't put down conditions as a result of his pilot ability anyway.

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

It probably will be FAQed once it's actually out.

Best guess is that if Thweek copies someone's ability, he now is treats as having that text on his card, so enemy Thweek then copies that text NOT the ability to put down conditions.

And he can't put down conditions as a result of his pilot ability anyway.

Thweek doesn't copy Thweek, both copy/paste someone else's ability/PS.

Example: Thweek A Shadows Fenn Rau, Thweek B Mimics Dengar, do they both get to be pilot skill 9 Dengar Carbon copies?

What?

No.

If cards on one side could be used by ships on the other in that way the entire game wouldn't function.

In a similar vein, if his thweek mimicked one of your ships, then you mimicked thweek, could you effectively have two of the same ship in your squad?

Ok, there are 2 parts to this question, but you need to look at the cards carefully:

Tweek's pilot ability:

"During setup , before the "Place Forces" step , you may choose 1 enemy ship and assign the "Shadowed" or "Mimicked" Condition card to it."

So the ships are not even placed and you assign either the Shadowed or Mimicked condition card.

Shadowed:

""Thweek" is treated as having the pilot skill value you had after setup . The pilot skill value of "Thweek" does not change if your pilot skill value changes or you are destroyed."

Player 1: Tweek and Fenn

Player 2: Tweek

(Other cards not included)

During setup, Player #1 assigns Shadowed to Tweek of player #2 and player #2 assigns it to Fenn.

After setup: Fenn is at PS9, Tweek#2 has Fenn's PS9, Tweek#1 has Tweek#2 PS after setup. Maybe initiative have something to play in there, but I would guess Tweek #2 therefore has PS9.

Mimicked

"Thweek" is treated as having your pilot ability. "Thweek" cannot apply a Condition card by using your pilot ability. "Thweek" does not lose your pilot ability if you are destroyed."

Tweek's pilot ability is to assign the mimicked or shadowed condition, so mimicking another tweek has no effect as much as I can tell. At no point is it written "you replace tweek's pilot ability with that of the mimicked card".

3 hours ago, dotswarlock said:

Ok, there are 2 parts to this question, but you need to look at the cards carefully:

Tweek's pilot ability:

"During setup , before the "Place Forces" step , you may choose 1 enemy ship and assign the "Shadowed" or "Mimicked" Condition card to it."

So the ships are not even placed and you assign either the Shadowed or Mimicked condition card.

Shadowed:

""Thweek" is treated as having the pilot skill value you had after setup . The pilot skill value of "Thweek" does not change if your pilot skill value changes or you are destroyed."

Player 1: Tweek and Fenn

Player 2: Tweek

(Other cards not included)

During setup, Player #1 assigns Shadowed to Tweek of player #2 and player #2 assigns it to Fenn.

After setup: Fenn is at PS9, Tweek#2 has Fenn's PS9, Tweek#1 has Tweek#2 PS after setup. Maybe initiative have something to play in there, but I would guess Tweek #2 therefore has PS9.

Mimicked

"Thweek" is treated as having your pilot ability. "Thweek" cannot apply a Condition card by using your pilot ability. "Thweek" does not lose your pilot ability if you are destroyed."

Tweek's pilot ability is to assign the mimicked or shadowed condition, so mimicking another tweek has no effect as much as I can tell. At no point is it written "you replace tweek's pilot ability with that of the mimicked card".

'Treated as having your pilot ability'.

So when I try to mimic a thweek who's already mimicking, i treat him as having the ability he's mimicking, and copy that.

The Shadowed one maybe works actually? THe fact that Shadows doesn't take effect until after setup is why though.

3 hours ago, dotswarlock said:

Ok, there are 2 parts to this question, but you need to look at the cards carefully:

Tweek's pilot ability:

"During setup , before the "Place Forces" step , you may choose 1 enemy ship and assign the "Shadowed" or "Mimicked" Condition card to it."

So the ships are not even placed and you assign either the Shadowed or Mimicked condition card.

Shadowed:

""Thweek" is treated as having the pilot skill value you had after setup . The pilot skill value of "Thweek" does not change if your pilot skill value changes or you are destroyed."

Player 1: Tweek and Fenn

Player 2: Tweek

(Other cards not included)

During setup, Player #1 assigns Shadowed to Tweek of player #2 and player #2 assigns it to Fenn.

After setup: Fenn is at PS9, Tweek#2 has Fenn's PS9, Tweek#1 has Tweek#2 PS after setup. Maybe initiative have something to play in there, but I would guess Tweek #2 therefore has PS9.

Mimicked

"Thweek" is treated as having your pilot ability. "Thweek" cannot apply a Condition card by using your pilot ability. "Thweek" does not lose your pilot ability if you are destroyed."

Tweek's pilot ability is to assign the mimicked or shadowed condition, so mimicking another tweek has no effect as much as I can tell. At no point is it written "you replace tweek's pilot ability with that of the mimicked card".

What? No. That's not even what I'm asking! My question is: if you assign shadowed to Fenn, and your opponent puts mimicked on your Dengar, since neither card specifies which Thweek gets the ability/pilot skill, so I think they should BOTH get both PS9 AND Dengar's ability. If this is how this works, games will become so much more interesting.

1 hour ago, GLEXOR said:

What? No. That's not even what I'm asking! My question is: if you assign shadowed to Fenn, and your opponent puts mimicked on your Dengar, since neither card specifies which Thweek gets the ability/pilot skill, so I think they should BOTH get both PS9 AND Dengar's ability. If this is how this works, games will become so much more interesting.

Fortunately that's not how the game works. Nothing works on enemies unless it says it does.

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Fortunately that's not how the game works. Nothing works on enemies unless it says it does.

Also, things don't work on friendly ships unless specified.

15 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

'Treated as having your pilot ability'.

So when I try to mimic a thweek who's already mimicking, i treat him as having the ability he's mimicking, and copy that.

The Shadowed one maybe works actually? THe fact that Shadows doesn't take effect until after setup is why though.

The text of the pilot ability does not change by the use of mimicked; you just treat it as such. The condition card also does not belong to the copying Tweek. Think of it another way: it would be like trying to use another player's target lock.

The problem is conditions are whole separate cards and they refer to a specific other ship. So far, conditions have been written in such a manner that it doesn't matter if you have one on each side and the conditions don't refer to a specific ship. The rules actually have no rule that "things don't work on friendly ships unless specified". Indeed, things work on both sides unless specified. For example, Dead Man's Switch simply does 1 damage to each ship at range 1. Since it doesn't specify friendly or enemy, it works on both.

Another example, the IG-2000 title. "You have the pilot ability of each other friendly ship with the ig-2000 Upgrade card (in addition to your own pilot ability)." It specifies "friendly" because otherwise you could benefit from the opponent's IG-2000 upgrade cards too. Mindlink has similar wording (which is a shame, that would have been rather fun if both sides' mindlink worked together).

If "mimicked" or "shadowed" had wording something like this: "The ship that assigned this condition is treated as having the pilot skill value you had after setup" But it doesn't say that, it says "Thweek" is treated as having the pilot skill... That applies to the ship with the name "Thweek". If there are two Thweeks on the board, the rules don't distinguish between them.

FFG should clarify this. I'm not sure which way they'll go. I'd say probably an errata to clarify only the Thweek that assigns the card benefits, but we might see a FAQ that just says both Thweeks get both effects. The reason I think it's going to be an errata is it gets messy if both Thweeks choose to Shadow, as you now have both Thweeks being assigned potentially two different PS values. This can be resolved via initiative ( • If multiple abilities resolve at the same time, the player with initiative chooses which of his abilities to resolve and resolves them in the order of his choosing. Then the opposing player does the same for his own abilities. ) so basically both Thweeks would have the PS chosen by the player without initiative. But that's a bit unintuitive so I expect an errata.

23 minutes ago, The Inquisitor said:

The problem is conditions are whole separate cards and they refer to a specific other ship. So far, conditions have been written in such a manner that it doesn't matter if you have one on each side and the conditions don't refer to a specific ship. The rules actually have no rule that "things don't work on friendly ships unless specified". Indeed, things work on both sides unless specified. For example, Dead Man's Switch simply does 1 damage to each ship at range 1. Since it doesn't specify friendly or enemy, it works on both.

Another example, the IG-2000 title. "You have the pilot ability of each other friendly ship with the ig-2000 Upgrade card (in addition to your own pilot ability)." It specifies "friendly" because otherwise you could benefit from the opponent's IG-2000 upgrade cards too. Mindlink has similar wording (which is a shame, that would have been rather fun if both sides' mindlink worked together).

If "mimicked" or "shadowed" had wording something like this: "The ship that assigned this condition is treated as having the pilot skill value you had after setup" But it doesn't say that, it says "Thweek" is treated as having the pilot skill... That applies to the ship with the name "Thweek". If there are two Thweeks on the board, the rules don't distinguish between them.

FFG should clarify this. I'm not sure which way they'll go. I'd say probably an errata to clarify only the Thweek that assigns the card benefits, but we might see a FAQ that just says both Thweeks get both effects. The reason I think it's going to be an errata is it gets messy if both Thweeks choose to Shadow, as you now have both Thweeks being assigned potentially two different PS values. This can be resolved via initiative ( • If multiple abilities resolve at the same time, the player with initiative chooses which of his abilities to resolve and resolves them in the order of his choosing. Then the opposing player does the same for his own abilities. ) so basically both Thweeks would have the PS chosen by the player without initiative. But that's a bit unintuitive so I expect an errata.

That's what I was thinking. For simplicity, in my mirror Thweek match on Thursday, we decided to treat it as the one that assigned it, but to an extent I want it ruled the other way.

This thread is a perfect example of forum-ites reading the OP completely wrong and just running with it. Awesome. Chaos at its best. It's amazing that FFG had not thought of the implications of a mirror match and the wording on the condition card. As it stands both Tweeks would have to follow any condition cards that applied to 'Thweek' possibly giving both players a ship with two awesome pilot abilities without resorting to taking up their whole list with Brobots.

The PS question with Shadowing x 2 might not be a timing issue involving initiative but rather during set up the player with initiative chooses the ship to Shadow gaining that PS, then the other player sets up his tweek and chooses the ship that he will shadow, gaining that PS. Since this is chosen at the time each ship is placed the chosen PS for either thweek can be different and is not 'shared'. But I can see it happening the other way.

However both conditions are unique, so perhaps only one of each Shadowed and Mimiced can be on the entire board at once, negating this argument all together. Has there been a ruling like this on previous unique conditions?

3 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

The PS question with Shadowing x 2 might not be a timing issue involving initiative but rather during set up the player with initiative chooses the ship to Shadow gaining that PS, then the other player sets up his tweek and chooses the ship that he will shadow, gaining that PS. Since this is chosen at the time each ship is placed the chosen PS for either thweek can be different and is not 'shared'. But I can see it happening the other way.

That totally seems sensible but the problem is the first Shadowed condition card would be placed, affect both Thweeks (it's not optional either) then the second card comes down and also affects both Thweeks...

6 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

This thread is a perfect example of forum-ites reading the OP completely wrong and just running with it. Awesome. Chaos at its best. It's amazing that FFG had not thought of the implications of a mirror match and the wording on the condition card. As it stands both Tweeks would have to follow any condition cards that applied to 'Thweek' possibly giving both players a ship with two awesome pilot abilities without resorting to taking up their whole list with Brobots.

The PS question with Shadowing x 2 might not be a timing issue involving initiative but rather during set up the player with initiative chooses the ship to Shadow gaining that PS, then the other player sets up his tweek and chooses the ship that he will shadow, gaining that PS. Since this is chosen at the time each ship is placed the chosen PS for either thweek can be different and is not 'shared'. But I can see it happening the other way.

However both conditions are unique, so perhaps only one of each Shadowed and Mimiced can be on the entire board at once, negating this argument all together. Has there been a ruling like this on previous unique conditions?

Finally! Someone who understands the question!

This was the conclusion I was coming to for double mimicked and mimicked/shadowed, double shadowed is the one that is most unclear. There will have to be a ruling at some level.

It's a non-question; the conditions only affect the Thweek that applied them.

NOTHING in this game affects opposing ships unless it says it does.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

It's a non-question; the conditions only affect the Thweek that applied them.

NOTHING in this game affects opposing ships unless it says it does.

On 9/1/2017 at 5:12 PM, GLEXOR said:

On 9/1/2017 at 5:07 PM, thespaceinvader said:

Fortunately that's not how the game works. Nothing works on enemies unless it says it does.

Also, things don't work on friendly ships unless specified.

This is true, abilities and rules always use specific words to reference the ship(s) being affected: 'you' , 'another' , 'friendly' , etc.

In this case "Thweek" is being specified and it does not say friendly , nor does it say enemy , so it would seem to apply to both.

But this isn't the first condition that refers to a specific pilot, how does this play out for Captain Rex and Suppressive Fire ?

1. P1 has Rex and Zeb pilots, P2 has Rex and Sabine pilots.
2. P1's Rex attacks P2's Sabine and applies the condition.
3. P1's Zeb attacks and destroys P2's Rex .

"Captain Rex" has been destroyed, should Suppressive Fire be removed from Sabine ? I hope we can all agree that the intent is no .

Perhaps when one of 'your conditions' (how the Condition Cards reference card refers to them when describing unique conditions) specify a pilot by name like this it should be assumed that it refers to the ship owned by the owner of the condition?

35 minutes ago, FireSpy said:

This is true, abilities and rules always use specific words to reference the ship(s) being affected: 'you' , 'another' , 'friendly' , etc.

In this case "Thweek" is being specified and it does not say friendly , nor does it say enemy , so it would seem to apply to both.

But this isn't the first condition that refers to a specific pilot, how does this play out for Captain Rex and Suppressive Fire ?

1. P1 has Rex and Zeb pilots, P2 has Rex and Sabine pilots.
2. P1's Rex attacks P2's Sabine and applies the condition.
3. P1's Zeb attacks and destroys P2's Rex .

"Captain Rex" has been destroyed, should Suppressive Fire be removed from Sabine ? I hope we can all agree that the intent is no .

Perhaps when one of 'your conditions' (how the Condition Cards reference card refers to them when describing unique conditions) specify a pilot by name like this it should be assumed that it refers to the ship owned by the owner of the condition?

This is why I posted the question, there are great arguments for both sides. If there was no good opposition to the side I think is right, I would not have asked. But the plot constantly thickens. . . .

So by the logic of it naming something by its proper name makes it applicable to the enemy bearing that name... Ghost with Phantom docked. If your ghost has your phantom docked, my ghost doesn't get to shoot its turret even though the card says "While you are docked, the Ghost can..." If I were across the table from you and said "you have a docked phantom so it says there that the ghost...and my ship is called the ghost too...can fire its turret at the end!!" I feel like you'd be justified in slapping me.

18 hours ago, FireSpy said:

This is true, abilities and rules always use specific words to reference the ship(s) being affected: 'you' , 'another' , 'friendly' , etc.

In this case "Thweek" is being specified and it does not say friendly , nor does it say enemy , so it would seem to apply to both.

But this isn't the first condition that refers to a specific pilot, how does this play out for Captain Rex and Suppressive Fire ?

1. P1 has Rex and Zeb pilots, P2 has Rex and Sabine pilots.
2. P1's Rex attacks P2's Sabine and applies the condition.
3. P1's Zeb attacks and destroys P2's Rex .

"Captain Rex" has been destroyed, should Suppressive Fire be removed from Sabine ? I hope we can all agree that the intent is no .

Perhaps when one of 'your conditions' (how the Condition Cards reference card refers to them when describing unique conditions) specify a pilot by name like this it should be assumed that it refers to the ship owned by the owner of the condition?

It gets more thorny. Let's say both Rexes are alive and both have applied the condition last turn. One of them attacked this turn and one of them did not and both survived the turn. End of the combat phase, does this condition kick in? ' If "Captain Rex" did not perform an attack this phase, remove this card.' Did Rex attack this turn or not?

No,
its the same with IGs in an IG mirrormatch your IGs don't get enemy IGs abilitys.

The IG argument doesn't work, because IG2000 includes the word 'friendly'.

This kind of reaching is the sort of thing that just wouldn't ever fly at a tournament. I can't see anyone being successful in arguing that every ship on the board should lose a die the instant Rex shoots anything, nor that both Thweeks should have both conditions applied.

The rules are perhaps not written as well as they could have been, but there's basically no ambiguity if you apply an ounce of common sense.

On a related note; what would happen if you assigned 'Mimicked' to an IG-88? The ship counts as having 2 (or 4 in an epic game with all of them) pilot abilities - does Thweek get all of them?

5 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

On a related note; what would happen if you assigned 'Mimicked' to an IG-88? The ship counts as having 2 (or 4 in an epic game with all of them) pilot abilities - does Thweek get all of them?

RAW, you get both abilities. What the FAQ will say, who knows.

Thweeks going to need his own freaking chapter.