On 9/4/2017 at 7:31 AM, Truthiness said:

I will 100% concede the plot was unoriginal. It was done intentionally to give fans that Star Wars 'feel' again and serve as a reset. The dialogue and characters were what made it for me. We've got a great group of actors and characters going forward, which is what makes the overall plot structure forgivable to me. Talking with someone in the know, Disney has a 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' philosophy. They were incredibly nervous about Rogue One because it was such a huge departure. You could very much feel Kasdan's influence again on TFA as this was the best dialogue since Empire.

Ironically the inverse is what drives me crazy with the Prequels. What you step back and look at the overall plot structure, it's actually pretty good. However, the directing and the dialogue is so terrible, that you can't see the forest through the tree. I've said it else where, but the Revenge of the Sith novelization is the perfect example. The movie started strong but failed at the climax due to poor directing and dialogue. A few minor tweaks made the book incredible . It is seriously one of the absolute best Star Wars books written. And it's a freaking movie adaptation.

I will say they need an original plot structure for TLJ, though. It's pretty clear that the fans won't tolerate an ESB knock off. I'm hoping that with Rogue One as successful as it was, Disney gave Johnson room to breath. I'm not gonna get hung up on the size stuff (just watching the movie, can you even tell the Resurgent is that much bigger than an ISD? It's literally just numbers for nerds like us). After all, these are space Nazis. Of course, bigger is going to equal better =)

I generally find that, at least with Star Wars, that Lucas is a good idea guy or at the very least can make something interesting...though he completely sucks at directing people, and dialogue which is something that was a thing even with the first Star Wars film. I felt it would have been best to have Lucas help guide some of the ideas for the ST, general themes and the like and then have people skilled at writing and direction to take care of that bit. I'd rather be curious to see what notes he gave Disney to work with, since we knew they threw them out.

Even with it being a mobile repair yard, starwars is losing it. And need to stop with the bigger is better thinking.

17 minutes ago, mobow213 said:

Even with it being a mobile repair yard, starwars is losing it. And need to stop with the bigger is better thinking.

Smaller than a Death Star.

I call that a step in the right direction.

16 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Smaller than a Death Star.

I call that a step in the right direction.

Different things for different purposes. The ' Spruce Goose ' is considerably shorter than a US Fletcher-class destroyer. But just because the destroyer is fairly reasonable in size for its role, that doesn't mean the Spruce Goose isn't still absolutely ludicrous .

The question that matters is the design of the thing.

IE., a 60km-wide space station would be 'big', but reasonable. A 60km-wide ship (in this setting) is...why? What does having it shaped like a ship make sense? Engines in the back, arrangement of bridge structures and such as a ship, IE., something designed to enter combat with other ships ? THAT is what makes no sense given what the scale of the thing is.

Just now, xanderf said:

Different things for different purposes. The ' Spruce Goose ' is considerably shorter than a US Fletcher-class destroyer. But just because the destroyer is fairly reasonable in size for its role, that doesn't mean the Spruce Goose isn't still absolutely ludicrous .

The question that matters is the design of the thing.

IE., a 60km-wide space station would be 'big', but reasonable. A 60km-wide ship (in this setting) is...why? What does having it shaped like a ship make sense? Engines in the back, arrangement of bridge structures and such as a ship, IE., something designed to enter combat with other ships ? THAT is what makes no sense given what the scale of the thing is.

Because ships are irrelevant when you've got access to Kinetic mass drivers anyway?

I mean, what's the basis of sane and what's the basis of ludicrous?

On 2.9.2017 at 8:02 PM, codegnave said:

They are secret only because they exist in the unknown regions of the galaxy.

They have had nearly 30 years to centralize and mold this substantial section of space into exactly what they want. Its far fetched, sure. But its not out of the realm of possibility set by the star wars setting.

So while the empire struggled to build their dreadnoughts and two death stars while controlling almost the whole galaxy, the First Order builds everything BIGGER while controlling unknown regions of the galaxy?

Why might this parts be unkown in a setting that has reliable hyperspace travel that allows you to go anywhere in the galaxy? Because this regions are rich and industrious and would attract a lot of trade and therefor public interest because of that.... OR because they are commercially insignificant back water worlds?

6 hours ago, DScipio said:

So while the empire struggled to build their dreadnoughts and two death stars while controlling almost the whole galaxy, the First Order builds everything BIGGER while controlling unknown regions of the galaxy?

Why might this parts be unkown in a setting that has reliable hyperspace travel that allows you to go anywhere in the galaxy? Because this regions are rich and industrious and would attract a lot of trade and therefor public interest because of that.... OR because they are commercially insignificant back water worlds?

I think the unknown region had the issue of uncharted space, and different anomalies and the like that made it difficult to try and travel so most just left it alone instead of taking the risk of running into a black hole or some other dangerous threat. Though that was the old EU so ya know...

20 hours ago, DScipio said:

So while the empire struggled to build their dreadnoughts and two death stars while controlling almost the whole galaxy, the First Order builds everything BIGGER while controlling unknown regions of the galaxy?

Why might this parts be unkown in a setting that has reliable hyperspace travel that allows you to go anywhere in the galaxy? Because this regions are rich and industrious and would attract a lot of trade and therefor public interest because of that.... OR because they are commercially insignificant back water worlds?

George Soros was funding the FO, that's how they could afford the ship

Sigh.....so instead of a classic looking flagship that would be impressive...you go with the typical flying wing design..........(groan)

Shame on you Disney.....Shame......Shame......Shame......(ring the bell)......Shame........Shame.....Shame.......Shame......

12 hours ago, ShadowFox1138 said:

Sigh.....so instead of a classic looking flagship that would be impressive...you go with the typical flying wing design..........(groan)

Shame on you Disney.....Shame......Shame......Shame......(ring the bell)......Shame........Shame.....Shame.......Shame......

Wait....what should they feel?

On 9/8/2017 at 4:10 AM, ShadowFox1138 said:

Sigh.....so instead of a classic looking flagship that would be impressive...you go with the typical flying wing design..........(groan)

Shame on you Disney.....Shame......Shame......Shame......(ring the bell)......Shame........Shame.....Shame.......Shame......

What do you mean a classic looking flagship? There isn't a standard for one in Star Wars except maybe length. Did you just want an updated executor or a bigger resurgent class?

This ship breaks the mold for SW ship design without slipping into not looking like a SW ship. It's new and unseen before, not more of the same.

On 9/1/2017 at 1:01 AM, Doppelganger said:

All this Starkiller Base, Mega Star Destroyer stuff rubs me the wrong way: as if the FO didn't lear from the mistakes of the past but deliberately tries to repeat them.

Sort of like the new Star Trek movies with their 22nd century federation ship sizes.

Yep, USS Giant Evil Ship is larger than an Imperial Star Destroyer.

17 hours ago, Forresto said:

What do you mean a classic looking flagship? There isn't a standard for one in Star Wars except maybe length. Did you just want an updated executor or a bigger resurgent class?

This ship breaks the mold for SW ship design without slipping into not looking like a SW ship. It's new and unseen before, not more of the same.

Indeed. Being slightly shorter than the Executor, it could be thought of as "Take the Executor - and give it more punch by giving it wings full of stuff".

In this case, "stuff" includes construction yards for smaller spaceships.

Do people also not remember that Star Killer Base's size is due to it being on a planet? Most of it isn't artifical construction and its use may have some good explanations in the coming movies or EU (It's Ilum, heavily cored and mined out by the Empire making future construction easier, Empire was premptively constructing Starkiller Base and the First Order moved in and finished the job, Chiss Asendncy is supporting the First Order to fight outside galactic evil etc...)

Not to mention that, by planet standards, Starkiller base is tiny (only 660 km diameter).

I rather like the flying wing. It maintains the star destroyer feel without being "just a bigger triangle". And the fact that it is a mobile shipyard is pretty cool too.

As for use in Armada... It would make a great background for the 6x3 playmat they have yet to release.

11 hours ago, Nickvr628 said:

I rather like the flying wing. It maintains the star destroyer feel without being "just a bigger triangle". And the fact that it is a mobile shipyard is pretty cool too.

As for use in Armada... It would make a great background for the 6x3 playmat they have yet to release.

See this is why FO>IMPS. They have serpassed the triangle and skipped over square (and its far deadlier sweedish cousin, the cube), BOOM straight to pentagon. I hear they dabble in hexagons, and dreaded wispers of septagons. All of this of couarse lead to the devastating OCTAGON; "Two ships enter, only Octagon leaves." I hear trapiziods were a bit of a bust for them, but the legends of the 'rhombus of terror' drove them on.

10 hours ago, Noosh said:

See this is why FO>IMPS. They have serpassed the triangle and skipped over square (and its far deadlier sweedish cousin, the cube), BOOM straight to pentagon. I hear they dabble in hexagons, and dreaded wispers of septagons. All of this of couarse lead to the devastating OCTAGON; "Two ships enter, only Octagon leaves." I hear trapiziods were a bit of a bust for them, but the legends of the 'rhombus of terror' drove them on.

All of this pales in comparison to the dreaded Dodecahedron of Doom.

1 hour ago, Megatronrex said:

All of this pales in comparison to the dreaded Dodecahedron of Doom.

Since building flat plates is easier than building curved, the Death Star was functionally like a D1000000

2 hours ago, Megatronrex said:

All of this pales in comparison to the dreaded Dodecahedron of Doom.

Original prototype for the Sphere of Spite.

1 hour ago, Church14 said:

Since building flat plates is easier than building curved, the Death Star was functionally like a D1000000

Looks like some one passed their knowledge (space station) check. I think that means you are granted intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the death star. What do you do?

5 minutes ago, Noosh said:

Original prototype for the Sphere of Spite.

A design based on the Polygon of Pain and leading to the ultimate shape based weapon the Apeirogon of Evil.

Just now, Megatronrex said:

A design based on the Polygon of Pain and leading to the ultimate shape based weapon the Apeirogon of Evil.

Sir I think you are being very obtuse. Clearly it was the Apeirogon of Apathy.

Just now, Noosh said:

Sir I think you are being very obtuse. Clearly it was the Apeirogon of Apathy.

D***, I thought I was acute. The Apeirogon of Apathy was ineffective as a weapon of war. It kind of just sat there doing nothing. Perhaps the Apeirogon of Anguish would have been a better choice but it's fast becoming the Apeirogon of Alliteration.

1 hour ago, Megatronrex said:

D***, I thought I was acute. The Apeirogon of Apathy was ineffective as a weapon of war. It kind of just sat there doing nothing. Perhaps the Apeirogon of Anguish would have been a better choice but it's fast becoming the Apeirogon of Alliteration.

Well played sir, well played. I must admit that we are in danger of putting this threat into a tangent.