30 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I wasn't going to get involved, but where does this kind of hate come from. I mean, I know Star Wars fans are the most passionate fandom on Earth, but for goodness sake.

"Overwhelming disappointment"?

I think that's an opinion that lacks perspective. Especially since the sequels thus far are just the "sequel"... as in singular....

I've heard TFA be compared to ANH as if it was literally the same movie. I've listened to the EU fans complain to no end about how this or that arc would have been better. (As a Thrawn fan and long time reader of the EU, I get it).

Disney acquired Star Wars and everyone assumes they just saw dollar signs and went stupid, and I think that's some of the dumbest BS I've ever heard. You don't spend billions on a franchise just to milk it dry.... You spend that kind of money to create a future for it.

Disney has a very hard job when it comes to Star Wars, and I don't think many of the spoiled little fanboys from my generation get that.

They have to bridge a 40 year gap in fans. They have to make a product that kids in the late 70s and kids 2017 would both like.... Their job is to make a product that bridges Reaganites and millennials.

Think about that...

Of course they wiped the EU, not only was it clustered and disorganized, there was no way to make the movie canon ever live up to it. More than that, stories from the EU contained subtle themes of that political era, it was a timeline those two groups of people, their target demographic, would never have seen eye to eye on.

Yes, TFA held similar major plot points from ANH, but I think that was less for the nostalgia of the older fans, and more to hook new fans the same way they did back in the 70s. When new fans, who've never seen OT Star Wars before watch the current movies they'll go, "wow, that was amazing, who's this Luke guy? Was Han such a Bad*** in the other movies? let's watch the originals". It won't be nostalgia for them, they get the experience of seeing Star Wars in an order that get's better as they go.

I think TLJ will contain similar plot points as well, but I do not get the impression that they're going for "Bigger and better" just because they made bigger ships.

They have a story to tell.

Let them tell it before you do the stereotypical "angry star wars fan" thing. For Pete's Sake...

I have nothing but respect for Disney and the Star Wars casts and crews. I am perfectly aware the bar I set for these films is in all likelihood higher than is reasonable, but Rogue One hit it, even as I complained that Rogue One is Rogue Squadron's lead pilot. As far as hitting both Reaganites and millenials is concerned, it's been done, and will continue to be accomplished by other franchises and other films. I have no doubt that the amount of talent Disney is throwing at Star Wars can make The Last Jedi rise above its predecessor into the realm of cinematic masterpiece.

However, I think you are giving Disney as a whole a bit too much credit. I have no doubt that at the level of Pablo Hidalgo, Mark Hamill, etc. they have nothing but respect for the franchise and its fans. At a corporate level however, Disney is a media titan. They're moving a Star Wars movie a year, and even organized every retailer in the country to release their TLJ merchandise on the same **** day. At the end of the reasonings for that, there is only one: Disney's bottom line. I will reserve judgment on TLJ itself until I see it in theaters.

However, I reserve the right to be an angry Star Wars fan when the merchandising, the fluff, and the supporting structure of those films insults my intelligence. At least for me personally, Star Wars was never just the films, it was the entire franchise, taken as a whole, creating a universe generally unparalleled in size, scope, and detail. It was the bar, period. It is my personal opinion that TFA disrespected that legacy, and I'm terrified that TLJ will continue down that path, where I can't follow with all my heart as I have to date. I will never surrender on this franchise, but my ability to fight will be badly sapped.

Yes I know I said I was done. I respect @Darth Sanguis enough I'll stay here and have a conversation with him. If a flame war didn't happen when we argued about the first TLJ trailer, it won't here.

8 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Wookiepedia Legends say DS2 got the approval right as the DS1 was destroyed. So whatever the time lapse is between ANH and RotJ is the time it took to make the DS2 in it's current state.

DS1 was long delayed due to it's primary weapon R&D. I heard/read somewhere that the FO actually inherited the Starkiller project, which was started before them, but haven't confirmed that anywhere.

12 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Wookiepedia Legends say DS2 got the approval right as the DS1 was destroyed.

Legends also had a DS2 superlaser prototype component stolen right before ANH, in the Hammertong short story, and referred to the DS2 as being "in the initial stages of construction" in The Essential Guide to Warfare.

Within a few months at most, there were descriptions of it as a "half-sphere" (Choices of One) and images of it close to ROTJ-level completeness (Brian Wood Star Wars comics):

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f100095c7911160d7b9113c18bd11c97-c

I heard/read somewhere that the FO actually inherited the Starkiller project, which was started before them, but haven't confirmed that anywhere.

Complete Locations: (newcanon version) references the Empire beginning the work on Starkiller research, on the planet that the First Order would find and convert into the Starkiller weapons.

This is from reddit user IveFallenNICantGetUp:

Not sure if it has been said yet but, Pablo Hidalgo has just come out saying that the MSD's 60 KM length is actually is wingspan.

https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo

Another good image of the rear of the ship - showing more engines close to the tip of each wing:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/a-new-star-wars-the-last-jedi-toy-sneakily-revealed-su-1798701899

The giant new Mega-Destroyer(TM) concept actually does make a lot more sense if you think about things from a decentralized shadow-government perspective. If it is essentially a mobile shipyard and central command system combined, with some assault capabilities to boot, then it could be justified in my mind at least. Anbody play the Homeworld games back in the day? Moving your base/shipyard along with the fleet as a massive auxiliary is fairly sensible; vulnerable to an extent, but it also means you don't have a fixed place that someone can just toss KEW's at. Also, if you are blipping around and rapidly provisioning infrastructure, a large mobile base is a good way to do it; blip into orbit, send down massive robotic mining and infrastructure deployment systems to rapidly spin up functional bases/systems, and use the already existing mobile base infrastructure until things are up and running and self sustainable. Why bother having a Kuat shipyard when you can bring it to where the resources are, build the extraction and refinery infrastructure in place and reduce logistics. Plus, fixed shipyards are easy to raid and wreck, and this one can go wherever it needs. ****, blip it into an asteroid belt and robomine the crap out of materials and refine and build new hardware on the spot as needed.

39 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

At a corporate level however, Disney is a media titan. They're moving a Star Wars movie a year, and even organized every retailer in the country to release their TLJ merchandise on the same **** day. At the end of the reasonings for that, there is only one: Disney's bottom line. I will reserve judgment on TLJ itself until I see it in theaters.

Yeah, they're in it to make money, no doubt, but Disney is not well known for low quality. Reusing/rereleasing the absolute **** out of something, sure, but very rarely low quality. These are media moguls who want that 4 billion dollars to turn into trillions, they can't do that without producing quality.

39 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

However, I reserve the right to be an angry Star Wars fan when the merchandising, the fluff, and the supporting structure of those films insults my intelligence. At least for me personally, Star Wars was never just the films, it was the entire franchise, taken as a whole, creating a universe generally unparalleled in size, scope, and detail. It was the bar, period. It is my personal opinion that TFA disrespected that legacy, and I'm terrified that TLJ will continue down that path, where I can't follow with all my heart as I have to date.

As harsh as everyone was on TFA, it was better than any realistic expectations could predict. Clean and concise plot, perhaps vague on galactic history, but intentionally so. Yes, it shared plot points, but did so in a very distinct way. I cannot help but believe that was an intentional choice. Looking at the modern political setting, much like the Empire was a proxy for the Nazis in the original firms, the First Order could easily represent the polarized political extremists growing in many nations today. The galaxy of Star Wars, 30 years later, people didn't learn from their mistakes. The youth were not familiar with history, and now, as history repeats itself, an "Evil which has taken many forms" has risen again.

No, I do not think this was just about riding the nostalgia train. They wanted to strike a chord.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Personally, I think this makes the way they classified the old EU absolutely beautiful. It speaks to the reader about the state of the galaxy in terms of politics. Even the capitol of the Republic was changed after 20,000 years of tradition because they wanted to forget the "dark times". What is history and what is false is obscured, there are just legends. Some of them true, some of them not. Maybe the truth in some of them was just lost over time as the story changed. Like a game of telephone. When you look at the SWEU from this perspective, TFA not only makes sense, but was really an inevitability. The fact that they've added new elements, and made the story unique despite carrying several thematic similarities was actually more impressive than not.


TLJ, from the preview has the potential to both carry a similar theme, and break away into all new space. I really believe this trilogy is going to shine as a whole.

8 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I cannot help but believe that was an intentional choice

^THIS! And it's not only TFA, and it's totally intended! Happened with the prequels, also intentionally, because Star Wars is poetry, and George Lucas said it shows how history repeats itself!

3 minutes ago, Visovics said:

^THIS! And it's not only TFA, and it's totally intended! Happened with the prequels, also intentionally, because Star Wars is poetry, and George Lucas said it shows how history repeats itself!

This video! Thank you so much! I feel like I've been going insane trying to prove this to my friends. lol

7 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Yeah, they're in it to make money, no doubt, but Disney is not well known for low quality. Reusing/rereleasing the absolute **** out of something, sure, but very rarely low quality. These are media moguls who want that 4 billion dollars to turn into trillions, they can't do that without producing quality.

Someone has clearly never seen any of The Little Mermaid's sequels. Disney has never been knowing for releasing low quality films into theaters, which Star Wars will be, so there's that element of hope. Flip side, they are known for milking a franchise dry, then continuing to hammer it because there are still dregs at the bottom of the bucket. I hope Star Wars never gets there, and if any franchise can avoid it, it's this one. However, that threat still looms.

10 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

As harsh as everyone was on TFA, it was better than any realistic expectations could predict. Clean and concise plot, perhaps vague on galactic history, but intentionally so. Yes, it shared plot points, but did so in a very distinct way. I cannot help but believe that was an intentional choice. Looking at the modern political setting, much like the Empire was a proxy for the Nazis in the original firms, the First Order could easily represent the polarized political extremists growing in many nations today. The galaxy of Star Wars, 30 years later, people didn't learn from their mistakes. The youth were not familiar with history, and now, as history repeats itself, an "Evil which has taken many forms" has risen again.

I'll be honest, I don't know what I wanted Force Awakens to be. Given that JJ Abrams was at the helm, the pattern is clear as day between TFA and Star Trek (the first of the new reboots), so expecting anything else may have been unreasonable. However, I did not want a prettier ANH, and I've had trouble ever since it came out seeing it in any other light. The casting was great, the special effects were phenomenal, but on a certain level, the jarring change in tone from the EU, the Star Wars universe I have spent the most of my time in, was disconcerting. I have no doubt the callbacks were intentional, but I think I have to disagree with the idea that it was entirely for artistic reasons instead of just riding the nostalgia train all the way to the bank.

18 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

No, I do not think this was just about riding the nostalgia train. They wanted to strike a chord.

In a world where people can't remember principles in the face of principal challenges, you get +100 points for correctly knowing and using "chord" here.

20 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Personally, I think this makes the way they classified the old EU absolutely beautiful. It speaks to the reader about the state of the galaxy in terms of politics. Even the capitol of the Republic was changed after 20,000 years of tradition because they wanted to forget the "dark times". What is history and what is false is obscured, there are just legends. Some of them true, some of them not. Maybe the truth in some of them was just lost over time as the story changed. Like a game of telephone. When you look at the SWEU from this perspective, TFA not only makes sense, but was really an inevitability. The fact that they've added new elements, and made the story unique despite carrying several thematic similarities was actually more impressive than not.

TLJ, from the preview has the potential to both carry a similar theme, and break away into all new space. I really believe this trilogy is going to shine as a whole.

11 minutes ago, Visovics said:

^THIS! And it's not only TFA, and it's totally intended! Happened with the prequels, also intentionally, because Star Wars is poetry, and George Lucas said it shows how history repeats itself!

I'm going to handle these together. Out of all the ways to handle ending the EU, the official language describing the new Legends classification was one of the most elegant ways to handle it, I will gladly cede that point.

Regarding Star Wars as poetry/ the ring theory , the sum collection of the six trilogy Star Wars films do mesh together with impressive cinematic artistry. I will also cede that this was much less clear when only The Phantom Menace was out, as opposed to the entire prequel trilogy. It may be that once we have The Last Jedi and Episode IX, it will become clear that the sequels are an entire new arc of the Star Wars ring, once again building on an unparalleled film project George Lucas fought his entire life for. However, the reason I appreciate the current pair of trilogies as poetic imitations of each other is that they aren't. Each follows similar arcs thematically, but at the plot level each film is distinct and answers to no one other than itself. Each Episode is a film in its own right, that needs nothing else to stand on its feet, and while they play homage to each other, they do not bow down to mere copying. I can't say that at present about TFA, all I see is a repeat of ANH. Sure there are differences, but they are insignificant on the whole, whereas in the prequels, the creation of the ring did not force the movies into plot pigeonholes that left them as lesser individual films for it. In TFA the callbacks transcend homage and become worship, breaking TFA from whatever it could have been. I'm not even sure TFA, TLJ, and Episode IX will fit into the original structure, given that they are not the original sequel trilogy written by Lucas. This dicussion should certainly be resumed c. December 2019, but for now, I cannot honestly hold TFA into either the ring, or the cinematic project that those films are a part of.

Has anyone noticed that the Last Jedi trailer #2 has old TIEs? I just watched it and there's TIE Fighters in at least 2 scenes, one of which has them chasing the Millennium Falcon. I'd attach my phone screenshots, but they're too large of a file to post here.

13 minutes ago, Visovics said:

^THIS! And it's not only TFA, and it's totally intended! Happened with the prequels, also intentionally, because Star Wars is poetry, and George Lucas said it shows how history repeats itself!

You don't think it's excessively heavy handed in TFA? Just a bit too heavy handed to be "history repeats itself"?

Person steals superweapon plans, Nazis follow them, plans get put in droid and sent away, person gets captured and interrorgated to find out where the plans went.

Bad guy is a Jedi who got seduced by a shady guy in black robes with a ****** up face, kills everyone in the Jedi academy, puts on black and wears a mask. Is a family member of a big hero.

Droid finds desert orphanage is secretly a super strong force user, becomes friends after orphan saves droid from desert scavenger with light up eyes. Storm troopers show up to find droid, chase, shooting, escape on Millenium Falcon. Team up with Han Solo and Chewbacca.

Desert orphan gets really close with new father figure/mentor, learns the force exists from them.

Nazis blow up space homes with superweapon, they're definitely evil.

Desert orphan, droid and Han Solo make it to rebellious underdogs with superweapon plans, big meeting around hologram, "we can blow it up with X-Wings".

Han Solo and heroes sneak onto superweapon, have to turn off some kind of system by walking across catwalks. Big villain shows up, talks with Mentor about serious stuff away from desert orphan, mentor gets stabbed by big villain.

X Wings fly around on/in superweapon, only 1 makes it to "kill me" spot, blows it up. Everyone escapes before superweapon explodes.

Chewbacca doesnt get a medal/hug.

2 minutes ago, Blinkus Maximus said:

You don't think it's excessively heavy handed in TFA? Just a bit too heavy handed to be "history repeats itself"?

There's the saying I was looking for, specifically "History never repeats itself. It only rhymes." TFA doesn't just rhyme, it has the same metronome, and starts each line with the same word.

For what it is worth, I think both @GiledPallaeon and @Darth Sanguis have correct opinions.

Just now, Undeadguy said:

For what it is worth, I think both @GiledPallaeon and @Darth Sanguis have correct opinions.

That's the beauty of opinions; they don't have to be mutually exclusive.

It is not the same. It's not the same level of fanservice and pandering. Yes, George Lucas used the whole "it's like poetry, it rhymes" to reuse LOT of puzzle pieces. But they were usually just set pieces or very little moments that they function differently. It wasn't the same plot, it was a different plot (a bad one). Even the paralels between Anakin and Luke's life were there for a reason, to compare both lives and show how different they react.

Even Return of the Jedi, people say that "they repeated the Death Star too". Yes they did, and even then wasn't as bad as in TFA. In Return of the Jedi the Death Star doesn't serve the same role as in ANH. It didn't destroy the good guys main planet, it wasn't a ticking clock for the last battle, it was a trap set by the Emperor to destroy the rebellion.

The Force Awakens lives too much on nostalgia, to a point that the characters and galaxy history had to be rebooted. Literally rebooted. The galaxy suddenly was again under an opresive empire with a rebellion around. Han and Leia didn't evolve, they "went back to what they were best at". That's sad. That deletes any arc they had. It deletes anything that was accomplished in the original trilogy. They also use the fact that the First Order is a fanboy of the Empire to literally reuse their designs and to have Kylo Ren act like Darth Vader. It's a cute excuse, but it becomes boring. Particularly if the second movie they are using the same excuse to not evolve and keep doing the same thing.

It's the difference between an author that is lacking ideas and a fan who just wants to redo the original.

Yes, the Force Awakens was a better done movie than any of the prequels. Better directed, better acted and better written. But it was a copy of the original.

4 minutes ago, Blinkus Maximus said:

Person steals superweapon plans, Nazis follow them, plans get put in droid and sent away, person gets captured and interrorgated to find out where the plans went.

Wrong, Poe is sent to recover part of the map that leads to a symbol of the rebellion who vanished and is needed, in OT, leia is on her way to ask for Obi-wan's help because he is a hero of the republic. "Nazis" not following him this time, they are after the same information. He is interrogated to find where the Map went, not the plans. They learn about Starkiller because of the stormtrooper who sees the evil and cruelty of the "Nazis" and helps him escape.

8 minutes ago, Blinkus Maximus said:

Bad guy is a Jedi who got seduced by a shady guy in black robes with a ****** up face, kills everyone in the Jedi academy, puts on black and wears a mask. Is a family member of a big hero.

First part is right, but I don't think Vader kills his dad or is heavily hurt and has incomplete training and I don't think Vader has an internal conflict between light and darkness and is not a fanatic about his grandad

11 minutes ago, Blinkus Maximus said:

Droid finds desert orphanage is secretly a super strong force user, becomes friends after orphan saves droid from desert scavenger with light up eyes. Storm troopers show up to find droid, chase, shooting, escape on Millenium Falcon. Team up with Han Solo and Chewbacca.

Yeah, if it was a total rip-off that would lead to a rescue mission, instead the guy who helped the prisoner finds the droid and escapes with them with nowhere to go, find Han Solo and Chewie (are found by describes better) and take the map to find help with an old woman who owns a bar, they are found there and there is a a battle there, they also find out that the owner of the droid who was the prisoner is alive and well

16 minutes ago, Blinkus Maximus said:

Desert orphan gets really close with new father figure/mentor, learns the force exists from them.

She then refuses it and runs away to be captured by the bad guy in black and taken to the laser base

18 minutes ago, Blinkus Maximus said:

Nazis blow up space homes with superweapon, they're definitely evil.

They blow up the entire system where the governing body of the New Republic is, thus creating mass chaos and opening an opportunity for galactic takeover, that's way more impactful in the rest of the trilogy than blowing up a planet to extract information about the base of their enemies

19 minutes ago, Blinkus Maximus said:

Desert orphan, droid and Han Solo make it to rebellious underdogs with superweapon plans, big meeting around hologram, "we can blow it up with X-Wings".

She doesn't make it, she's in the superweapon. Defected trooper gives insight into base and map cannot be decyphered. Plan a bit more complicated, the planet has a force field protection.

21 minutes ago, Blinkus Maximus said:

Han Solo and heroes sneak onto superweapon, have to turn off some kind of system by walking across catwalks. Big villain shows up, talks with Mentor about serious stuff away from desert orphan, mentor gets stabbed by big villain.

Sometimes frame by frame also happens in prequels, this one is accurate

22 minutes ago, Blinkus Maximus said:

X Wings fly around on/in superweapon, only 1 makes it to "kill me" spot, blows it up. Everyone escapes before superweapon explodes.

Accurate again

22 minutes ago, Blinkus Maximus said:

Chewbacca doesnt get a medal/hug

T.T I shouldn't be crying at this...

Also, they don't really celebrate, ANH ends with a conclusion, TFA in a huge cliffhanger

3 minutes ago, melminiatures said:

It is not the same. It's not the same level of fanservice and pandering. Yes, George Lucas used the whole "it's like poetry, it rhymes" to reuse LOT of puzzle pieces. But they were usually just set pieces or very little moments that they function differently. It wasn't the same plot, it was a different plot (a bad one). Even the paralels between Anakin and Luke's life were there for a reason, to compare both lives and show how different they react.

Even Return of the Jedi, people say that "they repeated the Death Star too". Yes they did, and even then wasn't as bad as in TFA. In Return of the Jedi the Death Star doesn't serve the same role as in ANH. It didn't destroy the good guys main planet, it wasn't a ticking clock for the last battle, it was a trap set by the Emperor to destroy the rebellion.

The Force Awakens lives too much on nostalgia, to a point that the characters and galaxy history had to be rebooted. Literally rebooted. The galaxy suddenly was again under an opresive empire with a rebellion around. Han and Leia didn't evolve, they "went back to what they were best at". That's sad. That deletes any arc they had. It deletes anything that was accomplished in the original trilogy. They also use the fact that the First Order is a fanboy of the Empire to literally reuse their designs and to have Kylo Ren act like Darth Vader. It's a cute excuse, but it becomes boring. Particularly if the second movie they are using the same excuse to not evolve and keep doing the same thing.

It's the difference between an author that is lacking ideas and a fan who just wants to redo the original.

Yes, the Force Awakens was a better done movie than any of the prequels. Better directed, better acted and better written. But it was a copy of the original.

What is today with people more succinctly and more clearly expressing my views than I can?

This one thousand times over.

In reply to Mel's last argument, it was a copy of ANH because Disney saw how much the prequels were hated, and decided that they should prove that they could do Star Wars correctly, and so made it look and feel like ANH, yet they still got **** on for trying to play it safe.

If TFA had come out as something completely new, and had sucked, Star Wars would have been dead in the water.

30 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

Has anyone noticed that the Last Jedi trailer #2 has old TIEs? I just watched it and there's TIE Fighters in at least 2 scenes, one of which has them chasing the Millennium Falcon. I'd attach my phone screenshots, but they're too large of a file to post here.

I'm pretty sure those are from the Battlefront 2 trailer... sorry mate...

39 minutes ago, Blinkus Maximus said:

You don't think it's excessively heavy handed in TFA? Just a bit too heavy handed to be "history repeats itself"?

Person steals superweapon plans, Nazis follow them, plans get put in droid and sent away, person gets captured and interrorgated to find out where the plans went.

Bad guy is a Jedi who got seduced by a shady guy in black robes with a ****** up face, kills everyone in the Jedi academy, puts on black and wears a mask. Is a family member of a big hero.

Droid finds desert orphanage is secretly a super strong force user, becomes friends after orphan saves droid from desert scavenger with light up eyes. Storm troopers show up to find droid, chase, shooting, escape on Millenium Falcon. Team up with Han Solo and Chewbacca.

Desert orphan gets really close with new father figure/mentor, learns the force exists from them.

Nazis blow up space homes with superweapon, they're definitely evil.

Desert orphan, droid and Han Solo make it to rebellious underdogs with superweapon plans, big meeting around hologram, "we can blow it up with X-Wings".

Han Solo and heroes sneak onto superweapon, have to turn off some kind of system by walking across catwalks. Big villain shows up, talks with Mentor about serious stuff away from desert orphan, mentor gets stabbed by big villain.

X Wings fly around on/in superweapon, only 1 makes it to "kill me" spot, blows it up. Everyone escapes before superweapon explodes.

Chewbacca doesnt get a medal/hug.

1.) "Person steals superweapon plans, Nazis follow them, plans get put in droid and sent away, person gets captured and interrorgated to find out where the plans went." replace plans with locations, yeah a serious similarity there... again, intentionally, I believe.

2.) "Bad guy is a Jedi (guy) who got seduced by a shady guy in black robes with a ****** up face, kills everyone in the Jedi academy , puts on black and wears a mask . Is a family member of a big hero. " Annnd now it it matches the prequels too.... it's always a shady guy in black robes... without shady guys in black robes Star Wars would have to be renamed Star-nothing-exciting-happens-here.

3.) " Droid (Jedi) finds desert orphan is secretly a super strong force user, becomes friends after orphan saves droid (Jedi)from desert scavenger with light up (shifty) eyes. Storm troopers (guy in black robes) shows up to find droid (Jedi), chase, shooting (Lightsabers), escape on Millenium Falcon. (freighter sized space ship, but shiny this time) Team up with Han Solo and Chewbacca. " so we're back at Phantom menace again...

4.) "Desert orphan gets really close with new father figure/mentor, learns the force exists from them." Oh neat... don't even have to change this one... literally the same in every movie.

5.) " Nazis blow up space homes (Government trade Union starves civilians with superweapon (giant *** space station full of troops), they're definitely evil." See where I'm going with this yet?

6.) "Desert orphan, droid and Han Solo (Jedi) make it to rebellious underdogs with superweapon plans , big meeting around hologram, we can blow it up with X-Wings (Naboo Fighters)" Geez even I didn't realize how similar EP I and EP IV were...

7.) " Han Solo and heroes sneak (the desert orphan crashes*) onto superweapon (big *** space station full of troops), have to turn off some kind of system by walking across catwalks (shooting it). Big villain shows up, talks (fights) with Mentor about serious stuff away from desert orphan, mentor gets stabbed by big villain." And there's still catwalks.... weird amiright?

8.) " X Wings (naboo fighters) fly around on/in superweapon (big *** space station full of troops), only 1 makes it to "kill me" spot, blows it up. Everyone escapes before superweapon (big *** space station full of troops) explodes." almost done making a point....

9.) "Chewbacca doesn't get a medal/hug." Still true technically...



My point being... by typing this out.... is that it's literally JUST as heavy handed... If the internet was as easy to use when EP I released as it is now, we could literally just google and copy paste the same complaints into this thread...


Lesson to be learned.... STAR WARS fans are too critical, and will complain about ANYTHING.

8 minutes ago, ianediger said:

In reply to Mel's last argument, it was a copy of ANH because Disney saw how much the prequels were hated, and decided that they should prove that they could do Star Wars correctly, and so made it look and feel like ANH, yet they still got **** on for trying to play it safe.

If TFA had come out as something completely new, and had sucked, Star Wars would have been dead in the water.

That goes around the argument that TFA was what Star Wars needed after the prequels. Like if we were under trauma and needed our stabilizer wheels to get going again, slowly, from a ground of something safe that we know we liked.

Seriously, that is not needed. It's not a trauma. If you give us a good movie it would have been enough. Just look at Batman Begins, it came 8 years after Batman and Robin (there were 10 years between ROTS and TFA). And it was completely different, not only to Tim Burton's Batman, but it also didn't play anything safe. It had an unknown villain, it didn't follow the look of the comics, it didn't follow the look of the last good Batman movie, it didn't follow a traditional Superhero story that everybody loves. It was risky and good. Where where the stabilizer wheels you needed after the Batman and Robin trauma back then?

1 hour ago, melminiatures said:

This is from reddit user IveFallenNICantGetUp:

LET'S DO MATH!

This proves that the ship is actually not at all as untenable for the First Order to build as people are making it out to be.

The Supremacy is thirty five ISDs wide and at least ten ISDs long. We can imagine maybe three to five ISDs thick. At most it's the same amount of resources to build as 1000 to 1500 ISDs.

The Imperial Fleet had at least 25,000 ISDs so the Supremacy represents about a 25th of the Empire's ISD fleet. However we know the Empire was churning out Interdictors, Arquitens, Gozanti in massive quantities (possibly in the hundreds of thousands) as well as 10 Super Star Destroyers and two Death Stars. The Supremacy while massive is actually a blip compared to what the Galactic Empire wielded on a galaxy wide level.

The Supremacy is entirely logical and not at all as big a problem as people are making it out to be. It being problematic is just being blown out of porportion by cynicism.

3 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

9.) "Chewbacca doesn't get a medal/hug." Still true technically...



My point being... by typing this out.... is that it's literally JUST as heavy handed... If the internet was as easy to use when EP I released as it is now, we could literally just google and copy paste the same complaints into this thread...


Lesson to be learned.... STAR WARS fans are too critical, and will complain about ANYTHING.

This is...damnit, it has been a long time since I've seen the prequels. Ok, I get it, it matches well. But, it is at least better blended into the story in a way that isn't as obviously a copy of ANH, at least on first inspection. And thats about as much as I can say about this until I watch the prequels again.

13 minutes ago, Visovics said:

T.T I shouldn't be crying at this...

Also, they don't really celebrate, ANH ends with a conclusion, TFA in a huge cliffhanger

Fair enough, I honestly forgot that it was a map to Luke this time.

And I forced the memory that Rey got captured out of my memory because that entire line of her story infuriates me for so many reasons.

So yea, I was wrong about parts, I will concede that. But the amount that is straight out of ANH is still disturbing.

Also, I have a theory that Chewie isnt allowed to be rewarded for anything or be happy, and you arent allowed to direct a sar wars movie until you agree to this.