7 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I think the design is cool. But the logistics of it seem too big. It's pretty clear this was made by a director who wants to inspire awe in people who don't follow Star Wars lore, not for the people who actually care about Star Wars.

Why is it too big? Its just a scaled down Death Star without a superlaser. In a practical sense the death star was a huge battleship but people give it a pass because it uses the term "base" but all the large ships and mobile bases in star wars basically do the exact same thing. I understand the perspective but I'm not a huge star wars nerd for the realism. I've read all the old stuff and I cringed at some of the newer stuff. They at least give me a plausible reason for it's existence I'll take it. No different than suspending my sense of realism than when the Emperor decided to build a second death star...or the logistical nightmare that was all the other super star destroyers .

1 hour ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

I kind of understand the the immediate gut reaction but I can't help but feel people might be over critical on the size. Just to put it in perspective the death star is bigger, they built the second one in about 5 years, and they can move and fly through hyperspace. People tend to overlook the size because they are a bit used to it and it uses the term "base" but in a practical sense it is no different than a giant battleship.

The name "Mega" is dumb though.

The size is dumb no matter what it's used for. There is a reason our Navy isn't entirely based in one location, or on some gigantic aircraft carrier the size of New Jersey.

First off, you'd limit your ability to respond. So much of your resources are tied up in one 'craft' that you can't split up and handle different situations.

Secondly, you are one massive target. The Death Stars and the Super Star Destroyer were massive, and powerful, and iconic, and likely designed to inspire fear in their enemy and boost the morale of their own troops, but they were massive targets. If you can knock out the entirety of the enemy from hitting 1 target...well, that's a pretty juicy target. And it hasn't worked out well for the Empire so far. Death Star, Death Star II, Starkiller Base.

Third, it's a waste of resources. A single SSD can carry over 300,000 individuals along with an army of vehicles (144 ties, 30 atat, 40atst, and even deployable garrison bases and other support craft such as dropships and whatnot). It would be cheaper and easier to build a fleet of SSDs that can support as much as a MSD. Sure, the German's in WWII designed and built gigantic, powerful tanks, and jet aircraft....but the time, research, and resources devoted to those rather ineffectual weapons could have produced many times more actually battle tested and effective weapons.

Sure, it's star wars, and they can build big things, but it's dumb. It may even look cool on the big screen. But it's nonsensical and the people doing it have a track record of it failing spectacularly every time they try to one up themselves. 100 regular SD, or 10 SSD, would be more intimidating than that thing. They'd be more effective in battle and at controlling regions of space also. They'd also be harder to destroy.

A floating armada of large warships with a command structure would be way more effective in every way than one hulking target.

As for the movie. Honestly, having a fleet would be way more interesting also. I look at that MSD and know exactly what's going to happen. The resistance is going to find a way to disable and blow it up in some climatic scene. It's cliché. Seeing the New Order rolling around in a fleet of SSD supported by a much larger fleet of SDs would create a much more interesting challenge and I wouldn't know what the plot of the movie is by simply seeing 1 preview picture.

2 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

Why is it too big? Its just a scaled down Death Star without a superlaser. In a practical sense the death star was a huge battleship but people give it a pass because it uses the term "base" but all the large ships and mobile bases in star wars basically do the exact same thing. I understand the perspective but I'm not a huge star wars nerd for the realism. I've read all the old stuff and I cringed at some of the newer stuff. They at least give me a plausible reason for it's existence I'll take it. No different than suspending my sense of realism than when the Emperor decided to build a second death star...or the logistical nightmare that was all the other super star destroyers .

The difference is the Empire had an empire. Not some shadow organization trying to hide from the good guys. The Empire could hide the DS because they were the government. They could do as they pleased.

And as far as we know, it is larger than the Death Star. The length is 60km, not the width.

No, I don't think the Resistance is going to destroy this one. If it's Darker in tone, part of that could include the First Order bringing their military might and better weapons into play to crush a paralyzed Republic. That means the MSD will lord over everything.

The Last Jedi is up from Empire Strikes back now with two new ship classes to fly alongside the Resurgent: This and the First Order Dreadnought. I look to that as encouraging that we'll see proper Star Wars Fleet battles that are more than just backdrop for the characters, and featuring more than just thrown-together assemblies of models from the previous movies.

As for implausibility of size... if this comes from an Empire that was constructing artificial moons, building a massive warship like this isn't too far out of their capabilities. For all we know, also, it's a holdover from the days of the Empire. What was the Empire doing in the unknown regions? And what happened with THrawn... presuming he doesn't die (or fakes his own death) in Rebels and travels back to the unknown regions, what has he been up to? And how have his contributions helped the First Order?

Honestly I love this ship to death. 60 km long? Holy carp that's awesome. Here's the thing yeah it's ridiclous but this is Star Wars why not go for something cool and silly like this?

What I love about this is that the First Order's doctrine is not to hold territory but to always be mobile like the Mongols or the Dothraki which to me is a lot scarier. With the Empire they were tied down and spread out because they were trying to hold planets which is tough but beatable.

If the First Order can just show up anywhere or simply move their capital since it's a mega ship then how do you beat them? With a fleet? Against that? Fat chance!

3 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:

The size is dumb no matter what it's used for. There is a reason our Navy isn't entirely based in one location, or on some gigantic aircraft carrier the size of New Jersey.

First off, you'd limit your ability to respond. So much of your resources are tied up in one 'craft' that you can't split up and handle different situations.

Secondly, you are one massive target. The Death Stars and the Super Star Destroyer were massive, and powerful, and iconic, and likely designed to inspire fear in their enemy and boost the morale of their own troops, but they were massive targets. If you can knock out the entirety of the enemy from hitting 1 target...well, that's a pretty juicy target. And it hasn't worked out well for the Empire so far. Death Star, Death Star II, Starkiller Base.

Third, it's a waste of resources. A single SSD can carry over 300,000 individuals along with an army of vehicles (144 ties, 30 atat, 40atst, and even deployable garrison bases and other support craft such as dropships and whatnot). It would be cheaper and easier to build a fleet of SSDs that can support as much as a MSD. Sure, the German's in WWII designed and built gigantic, powerful tanks, and jet aircraft....but the time, research, and resources devoted to those rather ineffectual weapons could have produced many times more actually battle tested and effective weapons.

Sure, it's star wars, and they can build big things, but it's dumb. It may even look cool on the big screen. But it's nonsensical and the people doing it have a track record of it failing spectacularly every time they try to one up themselves. 100 regular SD, or 10 SSD, would be more intimidating than that thing. They'd be more effective in battle and at controlling regions of space also. They'd also be harder to destroy.

A floating armada of large warships with a command structure would be way more effective in every way than one hulking target.

As for the movie. Honestly, having a fleet would be way more interesting also. I look at that MSD and know exactly what's going to happen. The resistance is going to find a way to disable and blow it up in some climatic scene. It's cliché. Seeing the New Order rolling around in a fleet of SSD supported by a much larger fleet of SDs would create a much more interesting challenge and I wouldn't know what the plot of the movie is by simply seeing 1 preview picture.

I think your missing what I'm saying. I agree that building the huge ships are dumb. Full stop.

BUT...

The original trilogy Death Stars seems to have get a pass so criticizing the size of the mega doesn't make sense.

Example: Take a ship like the CR90. It can move from place to place and fight. Take a Star Destroyer. It can move from place to place and fight just a magnitude larger. Take a Death Star. It can move from place to place and fight. The Mega actually fits within that scale (it's smaller than the death star - It might actually be longer but nowhere near the volume and actual area). Just give me a plausible reason how they can build the **** thing.

All of that is just a long winded way of saying the size alone doesn't make the ship dumb.

Here's my thing, the Supremacy is a lot less dumb then Starkiller Base.

I actually think they made a massive mistake by not making the Supremacy the centerpiece First Order ship for the entire trilogy. It would make its inevitable destruction that much more satisfying if we saw it slag the Resistance and New Republic repeatedly til the end.

15 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

Why is it too big? Its just a scaled down Death Star without a superlaser. In a practical sense the death star was a huge battleship but people give it a pass because it uses the term "base" but all the large ships and mobile bases in star wars basically do the exact same thing. I understand the perspective but I'm not a huge star wars nerd for the realism. I've read all the old stuff and I cringed at some of the newer stuff. They at least give me a plausible reason for it's existence I'll take it. No different than suspending my sense of realism than when the Emperor decided to build a second death star...or the logistical nightmare that was all the other super star destroyers .

As one of the people you aren't, I didn't appreciate any Star Wars devotion to realism (there never and never will be). I appreciated the commitment to being reasonable. Journeys through hyperspace took (implied) time. Ships needed fuel. Torpedoes had limited supplies. It was reasonable. The EU maintained this tradition, even though it was imperfect. The new canon couldn't care less, and has invested heavily in wowing fans that are new to the franchise/only saw the originals a couple times, all while dismantling the old franchise we all loved dearly for callbacks to hype us up, even as it lets us down in ways I wasn't aware were possible. I'm clinging to the past, but that's because the present insults my intelligence.

/end soapbox

5 minutes ago, Forresto said:

Here's my thing, the Supremacy is a lot less dumb then Starkiller Base.

I actually think they made a massive mistake by not making the Supremacy the centerpiece First Order ship for the entire trilogy. It would make its inevitable destruction that much more satisfying if we saw it slag the Resistance and New Republic repeatedly til the end.

Maybe we'll get that satisfaction over two movies instead of 3?

3 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

I think your missing what I'm saying. I agree that building the huge ships are dumb. Full stop.

BUT...

The original trilogy Death Stars seems to have get a pass so criticizing the size of the mega doesn't make sense.

Example: Take a ship like the CR90. It can move from place to place and fight. Take a Star Destroyer. It can move from place to place and fight just a magnitude larger. Take a Death Star. It can move from place to place and fight. The Mega actually fits within that scale (it's smaller than the death star - It might actually be longer but nowhere near the volume and actual area). Just give me a plausible reason how they can build the **** thing.

All of that is just a long winded way of saying the size alone doesn't make the ship dumb.

I think people are over the "Let's make everything bigger but the same." Like the Resurgence, MSD, Star Killerbase, Gorilla AT-AT. Essentially, the story telling is the same as the OT.

1. Big scary ball that shoots lasers gets blown up by the good guys. The main character hails from a desert planet and learns of the force at an alarming rate (days) and some how can use it with next to no training.
2. New giant ship is revealed. Giant walkers march onto a base and flying vehicles go out to fight them. Main character force wielder goes soul searching with a force master from a different era.
3. I bet we can guess what happens in this film too.

These new films are rehased OT stories and concepts, but the director has no sense of scale, nor any explanation as to how or why these things fit into the lore. Like the new Star Destroyer that has auto cannons underneath it to subjugate planets. ISDs can do the same, but for some reason we needed a bigger ship to do it.

16 minutes ago, Blinkus Maximus said:

It's more that it's the NEWER, BIGGER, BETTER SSD! It's another thing the sequels just made more bigly and said "its even better than the one in the original trilogy!", and that annoys long time fans of the universe.

Because there was SO MUCH expanded universe stuff they could have done (Yuuzhan Vong, Luke's Academy, or just come up with something 100% new) and instead they said "**** that, we'll do the empire again, but with more mega stuff".

Complaining about the size is just a symptom of the overwhelming disappointment that the sequels have brought to the table so far. Not that it's all bad, there is a gem here and there, but the fact we have to search for them and read the books to truly appreciate them is annoying as ****.

Snoke: "I'd like to make an Empire."

JJ Abrams: "Would you like to super-size that?"

1 minute ago, GiledPallaeon said:

As one of the people you aren't, I didn't appreciate any Star Wars devotion to realism (there never and never will be). I appreciated the commitment to being reasonable. Journeys through hyperspace took (implied) time. Ships needed fuel. Torpedoes had limited supplies. It was reasonable. The EU maintained this tradition, even though it was imperfect. The new canon couldn't care less, and has invested heavily in wowing fans that are new to the franchise/only saw the originals a couple times, all while dismantling the old franchise we all loved dearly for callbacks to hype us up, even as it lets us down in ways I wasn't aware were possible. I'm clinging to the past, but that's because the present insults my intelligence.

/end soapbox

Do you think all the countless eclipse Star Destoryers and World Destroyer super weapons of the week we got didn't take as many resources to build as this monster? The EU was ridiculous for resource allocation. If the galaxy can afford to wage near constant war or amped up military production fron the Clone Wars to the post Palleon era then the canon galaxy can afford one Mega Star Destroyer after thirty years of peace.

2 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I think people are over the "Let's make everything bigger but the same." Like the Resurgence, MSD, Star Killerbase, Gorilla AT-AT. Essentially, the story telling is the same as the OT.

1. Big scary ball that shoots lasers gets blown up by the good guys. The main character hails from a desert planet and learns of the force at an alarming rate (days) and some how can use it with next to no training.
2. New giant ship is revealed. Giant walkers march onto a base and flying vehicles go out to fight them. Main character force wielder goes soul searching with a force master from a different era.
3. I bet we can guess what happens in this film too.

These new films are rehased OT stories and concepts, but the director has no sense of scale, nor any explanation as to how or why these things fit into the lore. Like the new Star Destroyer that has auto cannons underneath it to subjugate planets. ISDs can do the same, but for some reason we needed a bigger ship to do it.

That critique makes more sense than the size alone making the Mega dumb. Although I think they at least deserve the chance to explain themselves, whether in the movies or the additional lore. they just haven't released enough info for me to make that call.

Ya'll need to stop thinking of it as a capital ship and reclassify it for what the Mega Star Destroyer really is, a mobile space station. It's a mobile capital city for the First Order.

If they came out the gate calling it a mobile space platform or station no one would be complaining. Yet that is what it is. This isn't a design problem, it's an issue of misused nomenclature on the marketing staff's end.

This is completely stupid and makes zero sense. Where the **** is the 1st order getting the funds to build not just this pos, but starkiller base? Seriously, the Empire didn't even have the funds to field more than a handful of super class star destroyers and build 1 death star at a time. The death star took so much in resources to build that it drew on the economy of the entire galaxy. I'm all for sci-fi but it has to have a basis for believability. This and starkiller base does not.

1 minute ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

That critique makes more sense than the size alone making the Mega dumb. Although I think they at least deserve the chance to explain themselves, whether in the movies or the additional lore. they just haven't released enough info for me to make that call.

I'm still going to watch the movies and enjoy it, but I think it has lost the Star Wars feel. I bet they will retcon the explanation with future content rather than explain how the ship came to be. Seems to be the easier solution. I just hope everything flows nicely.

Like I said before. I think the design is really cool. Giant mobile manufacturing star base. I wish they had used this concept instead of Star Killerbase for the TFA. This ship falls in line with the Tarkin Doctrine, so as has been said, it's very possible this ship was under construction for quite some time, hidden at some dry dock during the time of the Empire. Much more plausible, and much better story telling. But that still doesn't answer how they crew this giant ship.

1 minute ago, Forresto said:

Ya'll need to stop thinking of it as a capital ship and reclassify it for what the Mega Star Destroyer really is, a mobile space station. It's a mobile capital city for the First Order.

If they came out the gate calling it a mobile space platform or station no one would be complaining. Yet that is what it is. This isn't a design problem, it's an issue of misused nomenclature on the marketing staff's end.

Bit that brings in the hilarity that in their own canon, Disney has multiple big characters within the Empire state that focussing a shitload of resources I to 1 massive thing is dumb, and is the reason the Empire fell.

Thrawn is vocally against the Death Star to Emps face.

But the bigger one is Sloane, a founding ******* member of the First Order and their **** Admiral outside the galaxy, states several times that the Death Star was stupid, building a second one was MORE STUPID and was a huge reason the empire got steamrolled.

Then they turn around and say "but **** that, the New Order is still gonna build a massive ship/station because we gotta cash in on that Nostalgia".

Using the definition of length, it is 60km wingtip to wingtip.

length

leNG(k)TH,lenth/

noun

1.

the measurement or extent of something from end to end; the greater of two or the greatest of three dimensions of a body.

Just now, Undeadguy said:

I'm still going to watch the movies and enjoy it, but I think it has lost the Star Wars feel. I bet they will retcon the explanation with future content rather than explain how the ship came to be. Seems to be the easier solution. I just hope everything flows nicely.

Like I said before. I think the design is really cool. Giant mobile manufacturing star base. I wish they had used this concept instead of Star Killerbase for the TFA. This ship falls in line with the Tarkin Doctrine, so as has been said, it's very possible this ship was under construction for quite some time, hidden at some dry dock during the time of the Empire. Much more plausible, and much better story telling. But that still doesn't answer how they crew this giant ship.

Star Wars does tend to explain things after the fact, just like with the SSD in Empire (it was just a huge ship for shock factor), so I won't be surprised when one pops up.

5 minutes ago, Woobyluv said:

This is completely stupid and makes zero sense. Where the **** is the 1st order getting the funds to build not just this pos, but starkiller base? Seriously, the Empire didn't even have the funds to field more than a handful of super class star destroyers and build 1 death star at a time. The death star took so much in resources to build that it drew on the economy of the entire galaxy. I'm all for sci-fi but it has to have a basis for believability. This and starkiller base does not.

Disney is providing them the funds, they are helping the First Order to take over the galaxy. Never underestimate the mouse

9 minutes ago, Woobyluv said:

This is completely stupid and makes zero sense. Where the **** is the 1st order getting the funds to build not just this pos, but starkiller base? Seriously, the Empire didn't even have the funds to field more than a handful of super class star destroyers and build 1 death star at a time. The death star took so much in resources to build that it drew on the economy of the entire galaxy. I'm all for sci-fi but it has to have a basis for believability. This and starkiller base does not.

Disney is going to canonize the Star Forge in episode 9

Once again, i wonder how the first order can possibly build a ship like this??!! For crying out loud, they don't have anywhere near the resources of the original Empire, yet they can crank out 60km long super-duper-uper "mega" star destroyers. Oy vey...

6 minutes ago, Woobyluv said:

This is completely stupid and makes zero sense. Where the **** is the 1st order getting the funds to build not just this pos, but starkiller base? Seriously, the Empire didn't even have the funds to field more than a handful of super class star destroyers and build 1 death star at a time. The death star took so much in resources to build that it drew on the economy of the entire galaxy. I'm all for sci-fi but it has to have a basis for believability. This and starkiller base does not.

I dont think a lack of resources was the Empire's main problem with buidling large vessels rather the time it wold take to harvest the resources to build the ships so they have to prioritize. Space is absolute friggin massive and even in known space it would take probably millions of years to deplete areas of the galaxy of all resources.

Keep in mind as well the Empire had to maintain control of a MASSIVE TERRITORY. That takes considerable resources. They also had to keep projects hidden from insurgent groups and the main governing body to prevent all out rebellion.The First Order didn't have those same limitations. They have access to untouched mineral wealth in wild space and no prohibotove political ramifications to be concerned with and thirty years of being unchallenged by any other power. Keep in mind also the First Order benefits from all of the Empire's research on all their crazy projects.

11 minutes ago, ianediger said:

Using the definition of length, it is 60km wingtip to wingtip.

length

leNG(k)TH,lenth/

noun

1.

the measurement or extent of something from end to end; the greater of two or the greatest of three dimensions of a body.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_measurements

Beam is side to side. Length is front to back. Tis a ship after all.

5 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_measurements

Beam is side to side. Length is front to back. Tis a ship after all.

You're right but the way they have the ship oriented compared to the other reveals make it somewhat plausible they screwed that up. Just sayin.