So as a mostly Empire player, I have played my fair share of Tie Swarms and I used to love every minute of it. But the last few waves, it's really been an uphill, almost unwinnable, proposal. With the announcement of wave 12, and the Empire getting the Gunboat (finally) maybe FFG is finally getting over their "Tie only" small ship theory for the Empire. That is a good thing. But it makes me kinda sad because to me, nothing is more "Star Wars space battle" than a bunch of Tie fighters screaming into combat. So I got to thinking about ways to make a Tie Swarm playable again and an idea struck me. Using a new toy from the upcoming Wave 12, what if they gave Tie fighters a title that gave them the new Bullseye firing arc ability? It could be a cheap title that still works with swarm numbers and I don't think would break anything. It would make swarms a huge danger to large ships(as they should be) and more playable in general. What do you think?

so essentially crack shot but every turn?

I agree that it probably wouldn't break anything if Ties could do 1 uncancellable damage every turn.

It would have to ship with new cardboard for every single TIE fighter. I'm not seeing it being likely to happen.

They need something to break Howlrunner's grip on what being a TIE Swarm means. Howlrunner makes you this single offensive block and it would be nice if there was other options.

A decent Action EPT for Youngster would do it...

18 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

so essentially crack shot but every turn?

I agree that it probably wouldn't break anything if Ties could do 1 uncancellable damage every turn.

I thought that the Bullseye arc just disallowed using focus and evade tokens, not uncancellable damage?

15 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

It would have to ship with new cardboard for every single TIE fighter. I'm not seeing it being likely to happen.

You're right. At first I thought it just used the nubs on the base. But it could still happen if they gave it to us in the next aces pack. Just include cardboard like in Most Wanted.

8 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

They need something to break Howlrunner's grip on what being a TIE Swarm means. Howlrunner makes you this single offensive block and it would be nice if there was other options.

That's totally true.

4 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

A decent Action EPT for Youngster would do it...

Yeah, that's true too.

I believe the solution to the TIE swarm's struggles is squadron upgrades that apply to an entire list.

Black Squadron - (Squadron, points TBD) - "Equip 1 non-unique (EPT) upgrade to this card, paying the squad point cost as normal. Each friendly TIE with 'Black' in the pilot name may use the card ability of the (EPT) equipped to this card."

Obsidian Squadron - (Squadron, Points TBD) - "When a friendly ship with 'Obsidian' in the pilot name is defending, that ship may reroll 1 defense die."

Alpha Squadron - (Squadron, points 0) - "Subtract 1 from the cost of this upgrade for each friendly ship with 'Alpha' in the pilot name." (This would make a squad of 5 Alpha Squadron Interceptors cost 85 points instead of 90, freeing up space for upgrades or another cheap ship.)

Tie Swarms might enjoy something like the following:

1. Overwhelming Force: Tie Fighter or Tie FO only title. Basically imperial mindlink but focus token only and only if your at Range 1 of another ship. Would only be equippable below some pilot skill so it cant go on Lockdown etc. If you perform a focus action you can assign a focus to another Tie Fighter or FO at range 1. Red Dice power creep catch up.

2. For the Empire! - A title that allows a Tie FO or Tie Fighter with it equipped to suffer ALL of the bomb damage that any other ship at range 1 would suffer. Up to its available hull/shields. Basically a sacrifice play card jump on grenade so you dont lose your entire swarm to a well placed bomb.

The problem with this is that you would need new cardboard pieces. Its the same reason why you can't fix the Lambda by giving it a rear arc (which it would deserve). So it is effectively not an option.

Another problem is that more ships to control need more skill and attention. To play an 8 ship list in a tournament setting where you have a time restriction for your single games while having to play 4 or 5 games in a row which is demanding.
I guess we would see more swarms if medium swarms (5-6 ships) would have better synergies problem is that the empire has to little upgrade options and that mixing different pilots for their synergies throws off the pilot skills and you want even ps in a swarm to ceep it simple.

The 1st could be solved with the Idea I elaborated in this thread

the later would be addressed by two of Thorminds Ideas in the same thread

- Tie coordination device

Tie-only

If you have at least 3 ships equiped with this uprade at range 1-2 of each other, they can all roll 1 additional attack dice. Equip this only on ships with a primary attack of 2 or less.

cost: 2

Swarm fix...

- Tie standardization device

Tie only

All ships equiped with this device get the same pilot skill as the lowest one amongst them.

cost: 0

Allows swarms to bring named pilots

How about Bullseye for ships with 2 attack dice?

This way swarms could become great again...

33 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

How about Bullseye for ships with 2 attack dice?

This way swarms could become great again...

Another JM5K buff...? Sure...

@JJFDVORAK you're right! I was thinking of the kimo ps8 pilots ability, not the firing arc special rules.

Maybe if it was an imperial only ept or tie only mod that let you action to prevent an enemy ship from using focus or evade tokens till the end of the round? Taking an action wouldn't hurt the swarm too much.

Name it Coordination or something...

Just give the TIE Fighter and TIE Fighter FO; a title that mimics gunner and have PS cap to stop Omega Leader from taking it.

We don't need to over think it;

Just now, the1hodgy said:

Just give the TIE Fighter and TIE Fighter FO; a title that mimics gunner and have PS cap to stop Omega Leader from taking it.

We don't need to over think it;

You don't need to stop OL from taking it. OL isn't exactly top of the pile right now. She's the best TIE/fo by a country mile, but that's not saying much.

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

You don't need to stop OL from taking it. OL isn't exactly top of the pile right now.

there you go; just give them a gunner title;

More shots; more chance of burning tokens and getting hit through. It will efficiently double the swarm without having more ships; and the draw back is; they won't have all the tokens.

5 hours ago, jmswood said:

I believe the solution to the TIE swarm's struggles is squadron upgrades that apply to an entire list.

Black Squadron - (Squadron, points TBD) - "Equip 1 non-unique (EPT) upgrade to this card, paying the squad point cost as normal. Each friendly TIE with 'Black' in the pilot name may use the card ability of the (EPT) equipped to this card."

Black Eight Squadron Punishers will love this.

My solution for swarms:

7 minutes ago, Odanan said:

My solution for swarms:

I like this, but it's still 8-10 Tie Fighters. The extra ship or two will still have trouble punching through the defense/token stacks of current meta ships. Yes the list will last longer, but you will still lose one a turn and possibly still not do any real/lasting damage. A points reduction is cool, don't get me wrong, but I wanted to find a way to give them more teeth. I really think FFG messed up with the Bullseye firing arc. It should have been "use a 5 speed straight template from between your front nubs. Any ship under the template is in your Bullseye firing arc." They could have easily given the Bullseye firing arc to older ships then.

I'd actually like to see something like this:

Swarm Loadout
Modification
When attacking, if the defender is in arc and range 1-3 of at least two other friendly ships it may not spend focus or evade tokens. You may not equip this card if your point value is greater than 15 points after upgrades.
0 points

That would add some kick to all the swarms out there, but doesn't restrict it to formation flying.

17 minutes ago, rabid1903 said:

I'd actually like to see something like this:

Swarm Loadout
Modification
When attacking, if the defender is in arc and range 1-3 of at least two other friendly ships it may not spend focus or evade tokens. You may not equip this card if your point value is greater than 15 points after upgrades.
0 points

That would add some kick to all the swarms out there, but doesn't restrict it to formation flying.

I like the idea, but I really just want to buff Tie Swarms. Other swarms have a "thing" that they do better. Z95s can shoot missiles, Sycks can take cannons, etc. I really think Ties should be the ones to really "swarm" so maybe @Odanan idea really is the best. I just wanted to use a new toy in Bullseye Firing arc to help an old archetype

That's fair, it would be easy to lift the point restriction and instead add a TIE restriction. Which would actually be remarkably nasty if put on the old 4x Royal Guard Pilots w/ Push the Limit.

2 minutes ago, rabid1903 said:

That's fair, it would be easy to lift the point restriction and instead add a TIE restriction. Which would actually be remarkably nasty if put on the old 4x Royal Guard Pilots w/ Push the Limit.

That's true. You could easily make it Imperial only.

give the fickle greens some love, without giving them a free ride.

I was thinking of a couple of solutions after the gunner Idea; I really love the lonely generic TIEs. People have said they die before getting shots off.

Title 0 pts (Dual)

Imperial TIE Academy Training

TIE Fighter and TIE F/O Fighter Only. Generic only.

While you don't have any damage cards; if you perform a primary attack that misses; you may immediately perform a second primary attack.

when you are dealt a damage card immediately flip this card.

Imperial Devotion (reverse side)

perform a primary weapon attack.

At end of combat You may spend an evade token to flip this card.

----

you get to perform the attack before dealing the remaining damage cards.

Guess would need to add Imperial only as well because of the rebels

I would love to see an Action EPT on Youngster which makes the swarm deadly. My brain is not functioning proper but I believe something good could come from this and a bunch of crackshot blacks.