9 hours ago, markcsoul said:

Not till the firespray gets fixed first!!

Rear arc secondary weapons. Cannons, Missiles, and Torpedoes. If Kath Scarlet winds up being a problem (she probably wouldn't... there are enough high-dice attackers in the game already) you could just errata her to be primary weapon only.

41 minutes ago, dotswarlock said:

I'm not sure what that means. Are you talking about trying 4 IG-88s in standard epic play? We have an epic league and those who have tried it have had less than stellar success (games ending 300 to 40 and such).

My objection is just that while we are focused an 2IG builds any IG buff should keep in mind that a 4IG build is possible in epic and should not be broken.

42 minutes ago, Hannes Solo said:

My objection is just that while we are focused an 2IG builds any IG buff should keep in mind that a 4IG build is possible in epic and should not be broken.

Fair enough.

My personal experience is that IG-88s are in a far worse position in epic than they are in 1 vs 1. Autothrusters lose their efficiency quickly as battle devolves in to range "bump" to 2 (usually after soon as the 2nd round of combat) and doding huge ships is a problem. The sheer amount of firepower that comes crashing back against them makes short work of their low health pool.

I think brobots will be fine once/if FFG makes turrets either:

unable to modify dice out of arc

or

become mobile arcs that are still considered out of arc (Lancer still gets to be a tad better then and autothrustors aren't worthless

Please don't post telling me that doing these together is broken because that's not what I said

9 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

They have done well recently - I recall someone winning a store championship with them - but the key is that they did well because they weren't heavy laser cannon boats - in a world with relatively low agility (1-2) ships with ludicruous mobility and a preference for bombs and torpedoes, he correctly switched to a variant of the IG-88s equipping control tools - rigged cargo chutes, ion cannons, connor nets and so on. An ionized bomber can't put mines in your way, and an ionized/stressed Dengar loses both expertise and K4 security droid.Heavy Laser Cannon boats aren't as good as they were - partly because of power creep (I'm not going to deny it exists) but also because of the meta: not a case of power so much as a case of being badly suited:

I have tried that recently and it didn't go well. Control-centered IGs simply don't dish out enough damage- Keeping Dengar crippled means you're dealing 2 damage to him every turn with your entire list, and he's still doing comparable damage back. Bombing large ships with large ships is surprisingly hard. And meanwhile, you've got a whole another ship enjoying the lack of attention. (I assume I don't need to explain what's going to happen if you ignore Dengar instead).

Sure, if dice go your way you can win some games, but that doesn't make them good. They were a very volatile squadron even during their golden age, but now it's pretty much "get lucky or lose".

4 minutes ago, Elavion said:

Sure, if dice go your way you can win some games, but that doesn't make them good. They were a very volatile squadron even during their golden age, but now it's pretty much "get lucky or lose".

That still means that there are many, many more ships that need a fix before the aggressors

11 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

That still means that there are many, many more ships that need a fix before the aggressors

Precisely 5, if we assume meta analyzer analysis to be flawless.

More realistically, B-Wing, G1-A, TIE Punisher, Firespray, U-Wing, Attack Shuttle and Quadjumper probably need one more. The last three probably won't get them for quite a while, though.

24 minutes ago, Elavion said:

Precisely 5, if we assume meta analyzer analysis to be flawless.

More realistically, B-Wing, G1-A, TIE Punisher, Firespray, U-Wing, Attack Shuttle and Quadjumper probably need one more. The last three probably won't get them for quite a while, though.

Also the Xwing if you account for Biggs ;P

26 minutes ago, Elavion said:

Precisely 5, if we assume meta analyzer analysis to be flawless.

More realistically, B-Wing, G1-A, TIE Punisher, Firespray, U-Wing, Attack Shuttle and Quadjumper probably need one more. The last three probably won't get them for quite a while, though.

Well, the aggressor is in position 49 today

IG-88s are not bad ships by any stretch, but their issue is that they're in a faction with some very OP alternatives (Dengar, Nym, Fenn) and as such you're only going to ever fly Brobots if you really like the Aggressor for fluff or aesthetic reasons.

Imho; a Jumpmaster fix is waaaay more necessary. Maybe double up the illicit and crew slots? Reduce punishing one to 3pts? Add bomb slot? Add system and tech slots? All of the above? Come on guys, this is one ship we NEVER see. Why all the fuss over Aggressors when jumps are so under performing?

1 hour ago, Smutpedler said:

Imho; a Jumpmaster fix is waaaay more necessary. Maybe double up the illicit and crew slots? Reduce punishing one to 3pts? Add bomb slot? Add system and tech slots? All of the above? Come on guys, this is one ship we NEVER see. Why all the fuss over Aggressors when jumps are so under performing?

I hope you are kidding.

2 hours ago, dotswarlock said:

Well, the aggressor is in position 49 today

The sample size for the last month is really small though. When looking at results since Wave 10 (as well as 11) it sits in the 44th position, and only gets bumped to 43rd if you go all the way back to wave 9 release almost a year ago.

21 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

Easiest solution seems like it'd be something to fit into that second cannon slot.

Something like this, maybe?

"Integrated Cannons
0 points, Cannon

When attacking with an equipped Cannon secondary weapon, when the Cannon instructs you to cancel all dice results, you may choose to keep a number of dice equal to your primary attack value."

Basically, it would allow the Aggressor to deal full primary damage while using an Ion, Flechette or Tractor. It would have a lesser boost for the Gunboat, since they only have a primary value of 2, and would not impact any other cannon ships at all.

i tested an ion cannon like this, its horrifying. utterly melts low agility ships. in the end mine was too powerful so i gave it to a custom pilot as an ability(if your primary attack hits, assign 1 ion token to the defender), because 1 ace ionizing and doing 3/4 damage isnt too bad. but a tractor beam hurting you? or multiple flechetes? ouch. aggressors are expensive though, so it could work

15 hours ago, Elavion said:

Keeping Dengar crippled means you're dealing 2 damage to him every turn with your entire list, and he's still doing comparable damage back.

That, admittedly, is an issue; it's not so much the lack of damage as the need to double-ionize him - if only you could taze him with a single hit the other ship could shoot him with 'normal' guns.

Ion Bombs and Connor Nets (if you can hit him with them, which I agree is not easy) do do two ion tokens at once, so might be worth a thought.

It's for that reason I'd probably take on nym (for example) first with a pair of control aggressors - you only need 1 ion token, so one guy can taze him and the other just shoots him, and whilst ionized you've essentially taken advanced sensors out of play, along with non-genius bomblets (i.e. yes he can drop them but only in his final location), plus cruise missiles (unless he fancies a 2-dice missile attack) and avoiding an autoblaster turret from an ionized target isn't that hard, which are most of the things people complain about the standard nym builds for.

Dengar is nasty, but if you're not shooting at him he's not too scary (he's still scary) - and once Nym dies in a fire you can hopefully tazer the correllian and keep shooting him from outside his arc where he doesn't get to double-tap, so you've got (a) autothrusters and (b) only one shot a turn to cope with.

It's not exactly a solid plan, but it is a plan.

On 31/8/2017 at 2:24 AM, DR4CO said:

It pains me to say this, as I spent more than a year playing them and still love them, but BroBots have been utter trash for a long time. They can't withstand or even deal enough damage anymore and have no other shenanigans to fall back on.

And the fact that high-stat ships with access to Autothrusters and built-in Gunner on a FCS-backed HLC have been powercreeped into complete irrelevance should terrify people.

Doesn't an Ion brobots list have done the cut into a SC one month ago?

Anyway what kills them, for me, is the halflife/halfpoints torunament rule. Hey...mmm, maybe one fix should be a title who says:

"This ship can hold 2 titles.

This ship is considered small ship for the purpose of any rule".

Ok not with these words, but still...

Jesper Hills made the cut (actually I think he won?).

The fact that he was running ion brobots is IMO less important than the fact that he's very, very good at x-wing. He would have probably performed similarly with any good list.

Looking at the list without also looking at the player is shortsighted.

34 minutes ago, Cerve said:

"This ship can hold 2 titles.

This ship is considered small ship for the purpose of any rule".

Not a bad one. Takes away your ability to field Burnout SLAM and Rigged Cargo Chute, but IG-88s with Intensity or Juke could be rather impressive, too.

Does make you vulnerable to Ion and Tractor tokens, though!

Would also make your barrel rolls huge.

16 hours ago, GLEXOR said:

I hope you are kidding.

56 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Jesper Hills made the cut (actually I think he won?).

The fact that he was running ion brobots is IMO less important than the fact that he's very, very good at x-wing. He would have probably performed similarly with any good list.

Looking at the list without also looking at the player is shortsighted.

Yeah, he won the Entoyment SC last month with control brobots.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Not a bad one. Takes away your ability to field Burnout SLAM and Rigged Cargo Chute, but IG-88s with Intensity or Juke could be rather impressive, too.

Does make you vulnerable to Ion and Tractor tokens, though!

Uh that's true. Mmm ok need some modification, maybe keeping only the good stuffs about it.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Jesper Hills made the cut (actually I think he won?).

The fact that he was running ion brobots is IMO less important than the fact that he's very, very good at x-wing. He would have probably performed similarly with any good list.

Looking at the list without also looking at the player is shortsighted.

True. But when someone bring results it means that you can too. That's not impossible.

These player results should pushing you (player) to improve yourself. Not to consider them as some sort of divinty or similar.

He actually show that you can win both with Dengar or Brobots. Or is how I like to see it

Dearly Beloved Brobots, metallic former terrors of the lightless void, neworked murdermachines from a bygone age, we hardly knew ye. Truly, a more elegant murderbot, from a more elegant time. I really like Iggy squads, but am forced to agree with the newer is tighter sentiments expressed in this thread. Why fly Iggies when I could run dual Shadowcasters and headbutt my way shamelessly to victory. Similar playstyle, but much more bite and tankiness.

Considering 5 TIE Interceptor generics won a Store Championship, I don't think that's an achievement that marks a list as good

With good matchups, some dice luck and a very good player pretty much any list can pull off a SC win.