As per above. Ive been trying a few different uses of 4 hammerheads recently. Usually two torps and two scouts. Not having much luck with them. Admittedly, this is against pretty tough opposition especially lots of flots and squadrons that the HHs probably arent naturally equipped to fight that well.

Is anyone having success with them?

Yes I've won most of my games with my seven activation fleet with four Hammerheads.

I've even brought down a tricked out ISD in one turn with them :-)

Commander Leia

Pelta Assault Ship

Raymus Antilles

Engine Techs

Expanded Launchers

Entrapment Formation

Hammerhead Torp Corvette

Taskforce Organa

External Racks

Hammerhead Torp Corvette

Taskforce Organa

External Racks

Hammerhead Torp Corvette

Taskforce Organa

External Racks

Hammerhead Torp Corvette

Taskforce Organa

External Racks

Hammerhead Torp Corvette

Taskforce Organa

External Racks

GR-75 Medium Transport

Boosted Comms

GR-75 Medium Transport

Boosted Comms

4 x A-wings

2 x Z-95

7 activations, 11 point bid :-)

trying them tonight... 1st time i've used Rebs in about 9 /10 months

@Vetnor list looks simple and fun.

Maybe a bit too simple though... what exactly is the fun part about MSUs? Like, what makes you like putting them on a table? This would be a non-efficiency related question.

On 30/8/2017 at 0:16 PM, Blail Blerg said:

@Vetnor list looks simple and fun.

Maybe a bit too simple though... what exactly is the fun part about MSUs? Like, what makes you like putting them on a table? This would be a non-efficiency related question.

1. The more ships the awesome it looks

2. Navigation. I really enjoy it.

3. The pleasure of several pieces working together like a clock.

4. To see the impotence of the opponent not being able to shoot from his favourite arcs.

5. To see the frustration of the opponent when a heavy hitter is destroyed by tiny and ridiculous ships.

6. Black dice. I love them.

I could do another about heavy squadrons or big ships.

I know Demo and Insidious love beating them up.

I'm not a big fan of them. Speed 3 with yaw at the end makes me not want to play them. It's hard to set up double arcs without that.

A buddy of mine has been running them lately and them being speed 3 has been his biggest complaint.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

what exactly is the fun part about MSUs? Like, what makes you like putting them on a table? This would be a non-efficiency related question.

For me, it's always been what I naturally gravitate towards in any game. The idea of smaller and weaker ships/people/whatever joining forces against a bigger thing just appeals to me, I guess.

Also, these three:

1 hour ago, ovinomanc3r said:

1. The more ships the awesome it looks

2. Navigation. I really enjoy it.

3. The pleasure of several pieces working together like a clock.

Not that I actually have the skill to fly them like clockwork... but still. The idea of co-operation, and using speed and evasion rather than brute force. Navigation is my favourite part of the game (it was the movement system that finally got me hooked, honestly), and I get to do that more with MSU.

I could ask the same about the fun of using a giant ship with all the guns. I mean, I do kinda get it, and I play that stuff every now and then too, but in general I find it more boring.

Edit : Oh, right, Hammerheads. I don't get to play too often so I'm not the best person to ask, but in the couple of games I've had I really enjoyed them. A pair with TFA+OE+ER either as a clean-up crew or as suicide boats where getting out alive is just a bonus. The manoeuvre chart was initially a disappointment (my inner Cracken cried himself to sleep that night), but I actually like that it's so different from the CR90.

To summarise: I can't speak to whether or not they're good , but they definitely are fun.

1 hour ago, ovinomanc3r said:

2. Navigation. I really enjoy it.

This is why I keep using Madine. I fly against heaps of ISDs and it's fun to constantly avoid that front arc.

Hate them. It's like a *** Raider. And considering many people don't like the Raider, that's a pretty heavy statement.

1 minute ago, Truthiness said:

Hate them. It's like a *** Raider. And considering many people don't like the Raider, that's a pretty heavy statement.

Wait, huh? You hate them because they're not as good as a Raider or what? I'm confused

I hate them because they're only about half as effective as the Raider for only 10% less.

9 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

I hate them because they're only about half as effective as the Raider for only 10% less.

I can't really agree.

They are more durable with TFA than a Raider. With TFO, they can actually hit solidly at range, which a Raider can't do.

I also don't get the hate for raiders. Locally, they have been a staple. In a squad heavy meta, they excel at double duty - taking in squads and ships.

9 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

I hate them because they're only about half as effective as the Raider for only 10% less.

Scouts with DCaps are surprisingly legit, if you haven't tried them out yet.

Also, how are you normally running them (build wise)? I can get mine about 20% cheaper than a Raider for about 20 percent less effective.

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

@Vetnor list looks simple and fun.

Maybe a bit too simple though... what exactly is the fun part about MSUs? Like, what makes you like putting them on a table? This would be a non-efficiency related question.

The feel of flying them. Knowing that when you drive them wrong, you die. The joy of navigating into just the right place to unload safely. I imagine I could get the same feel from an arc-dodging liberty, but I've never made that work. Distinction: msu as torpedo boat swarm is fun.

As for hammers, I've only got one game in with them, and it was against someone's house ruled SSD. I didn't managed to drive them effectively, and they died easy for no effect.

I'm hoping that against isd's, they can survive the side arc to fire their torps, but I really have to practice to get good enough to do that.

1 hour ago, geek19 said:

Scouts with DCaps are surprisingly legit, if you haven't tried them out yet.

Also, how are you normally running them (build wise)? I can get mine about 20% cheaper than a Raider for about 20 percent less effective.

I've mainly tried the 40 point ER/TFO in a Wolfpack. That is indeed 20% not 10%. I stand by saying they feel half as effective.

I have not tried DCaps because the TRC90 feels so much effective with a minimal points difference.

22 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

I've mainly tried the 40 point ER/TFO in a Wolfpack. That is indeed 20% not 10%. I stand by saying they feel half as effective.

I have not tried DCaps because the TRC90 feels so much effective with a minimal points difference.

Fully agree. The Hammerhead was a miss for a lot of people.

The Scout tried to step in for TRC90, which is can't do. And the Torp isn't fast or maneuverable enough to be effective and is over shadowed by the Raider. The main use I have for HH is a RS platform with a Scout. At least I get 2 reds out the front and blue AA out the side.

I'm running a 5-ship list with Leia, a Shields-to-Maximum Pelta, and 4 Hammerheads with Gunnery Team, Spinal, and Task Force Antilles at the moment. Antilles means they have a little better survivability. Throwing 3 reds or 4 reds with reroll for two attacks is nothing to laugh at. The challenge really is in how to fly them. Initially I kept all four in formation with every one in range 1-3 of two others. Against most lists I'm finding now that splitting the formation into pairs works better to reduce the number of targets presented to my opponent.

I have been enjoying having the Hammerhead Torpedo variant in my Liberty list. I have been trying to trim my list forever trying to fit a CR90 into it, but the cost savings of the HH let's me fit that third ship that can shoot and be a trailing finisher. I am very happy so far!

1 hour ago, Truthiness said:

I've mainly tried the 40 point ER/TFO in a Wolfpack. That is indeed 20% not 10%. I stand by saying they feel half as effective.

I have not tried DCaps because the TRC90 feels so much effective with a minimal points difference.

The 40 pointer is good, but I've enjoyed having one of the Gunnery Team DCaps QBT scouts hanging out with the 2 torps, acting as TFO insurance. Gives them something to focus around. They also seem even more Raider than Raiders, navigationally, but I'm still wrapping my head around how to run them. I haven't written my guide to them yet....

As for feeling like worse combat power, Raiders end up with Racks and OE for 5 black with a CF with their 2 blue. They steer better, but you can get 4 blacks with a CF. You're really at the mercy of black dice there, and Rebels don't have Screed or Vader to "fix" the black dice. Combine that with the fact that OE doesn't seem especially worth it for a one shot attack and I can understand the frustration. Add that to the fact that they lose a straight up fight to that same Raider and I get it.

Basically, I don't have an answer for you yet, but I do think they have merit. Whenever I get the article and thoughts together....

2 hours ago, Truthiness said:

I've mainly tried the 40 point ER/TFO in a Wolfpack. That is indeed 20% not 10%. I stand by saying they feel half as effective.

I have not tried DCaps because the TRC90 feels so much effective with a minimal points difference.

Gunnery Teams QBTs Disposable Capacitors Task Force Organa Scout has so far seen some unexpected success around here. So far it's mostly been with @geek19 running it with a pair of cheaper TFO Torp Hammerheads so it can tap out his friends' titles for the rerolls when necessary on each attack if all they're doing is maneuvering into position for later attacks.

The Torp Hammerhead has by far been the more popular option, though. Rebels didn't really have a Raider-style "catch and then burst damage" ship and it gives an extra combat activation for cheap. Being able to contribute at long range (even if it's not amazing) isn't too bad either. Its main competition is the CR90B, but the usage on both of them is fairly different. Torp Hammerheads are more reactive and burst damage out the front, CR90Bs are more aggressive and focused on double-arcing to get their damage up.

2 hours ago, Truthiness said:

I've mainly tried the 40 point ER/TFO in a Wolfpack. That is indeed 20% not 10%. I stand by saying they feel half as effective.

I have not tried DCaps because the TRC90 feels so much effective with a minimal points difference.

Also, how many did you have in your Wolfpack? Right now the magic number for me seems to be 3. And did you ever finish that Store Champs write-up that you took them to?

I've been having trouble making the Torpedo variant sing, largely because of the speed 3. I mostly play against Imperials, so my issue has been getting them close enough without getting blown up in a front arc. If they were speed 4, I'd like them a lot more. At only speed 3, dodging Gunnery Team ISD/VSD front arcs has been an exercise in frustration. Maybe I'd feel differently against Rebel fleets.

What I have had some luck with so far is using the Scout variant with TFA and either DTT or Slaved Turrets, especially with Rieekan.

Hammerheads are a conundrum for me-

When I play them, they do nothing except die miserably, first or second player.

When I play against them, it's like they get stupid PCP strength and all they do is fly right at me and murder everything.

I use one of my HH torp with Flight controllers and Expanded Hanger bay, as a mini carrier at 47 points, that with Leia or Garm can activate 3 sqds in a turn.