So, yesterday my group played the finale of Jabba's Realm, this time it was Storming the Palace. They've been hammering me as the imp for a while, having more or less maxed out Shyla (Electrostaff+Weighted Head with Full Sweep etc), Vinto, Onar and Saska. And I was getting ready for a trouncing again last night for a finale that seemed underwhelming on paper.

For the first two or three rounds, the heroes absolute annihilate anything I can put on the board. It ends up with me actually not spending any Threat during the Status Phase of Round 3, because it simply didn't make a difference - I just relied on the deployment trigger, when the door to the Throne Room opens. So for the first three rounds, they are almost playing Solitaire. But then the Rancor shows up, and I don't know what happens then - if it's bad strategy on their part or good use of abilities on my part - but the mission *completely* tilts in my favor. Two rounds later, all four heroes are wounded and the Rancor is still going strong - along with all the rest of the figures that I can now deploy, because the heroes focus on the Rancor.

I had kind of a sour feeling afterwards - the first half was simply no fun for me as the imp, and the second half was simply no fun for the heroes. Has anyone else experienced this level of unbalance or swinginess - or whatever we call it? I prefer missions that are close and down to the last activation or whatever.

5 hours ago, GyldenDamgaard said:

So, yesterday my group played the finale of Jabba's Realm, this time it was Storming the Palace. They've been hammering me as the imp for a while, having more or less maxed out Shyla (Electrostaff+Weighted Head with Full Sweep etc), Vinto, Onar and Saska. And I was getting ready for a trouncing again last night for a finale that seemed underwhelming on paper.

For the first two or three rounds, the heroes absolute annihilate anything I can put on the board. It ends up with me actually not spending any Threat during the Status Phase of Round 3, because it simply didn't make a difference - I just relied on the deployment trigger, when the door to the Throne Room opens. So for the first three rounds, they are almost playing Solitaire. But then the Rancor shows up, and I don't know what happens then - if it's bad strategy on their part or good use of abilities on my part - but the mission *completely* tilts in my favor. Two rounds later, all four heroes are wounded and the Rancor is still going strong - along with all the rest of the figures that I can now deploy, because the heroes focus on the Rancor.

I had kind of a sour feeling afterwards - the first half was simply no fun for me as the imp, and the second half was simply no fun for the heroes. Has anyone else experienced this level of unbalance or swinginess - or whatever we call it? I prefer missions that are close and down to the last activation or whatever.

That mission went pretty well for us if I remember, and it was swingy in a good way.

The first part of the mission was similar to what you described - the rebels had the three new heroes and Biv, and all four were built for maximum damage output. It was really tough for the imperial to keep anything on the board, and like you the board was clear when we opened the door to Jabba.

Once we fell into the Rancor pit it seemed like it would be more of the same. Only Vinto stayed above ground, with the other three in the pit. The rancor managed to wound Biv, but then Onar rolled really well and, combined with Don't Make Me Hurt You, ended up killing the rancor on either the turn it came out or one turn afterwards before it could activate. Meanwhile, Vinto did some big damage to the figures up top but was wounded for his trouble.

At this point it looked like it would be somewhat close, but still a likely rebel victory. All we had to do was climb out of the pit and take down Jabba - there were still a few strong imperial figures in the pit, though, so the rebels wanted to get out of there as soon as possible. So Onar rolled his YYB strength - failure. Well that's okay, he had the Survival Gear so we'll just reroll a yellow - failure. Second action, try again - failure. For those keeping score at home, that's five yellow dice and two blue without a surge. Oi.

Biv and Shyla got out, but Onar was stuck in the ground and got absolutely wrecked by the remaining ePigs down there. That left us with just Shyla as our final healthy hero, with a door and Jabba to get through.

The details are kind of fuzzy from there, but we ended up finishing Jabba off with a 1-damge bolt from Vinto's blaster. I think Shyla had around 6 health left and had already activated, with a bunch of imperials yet to move, so while it maybe wasn't a "last possible activation" sort of roll it was pretty close.

All in all I thought it was a fun mission for us, which was good because the rebels had been on a bit of a roll for the last 5 or so missions before the finale started.

Also one more thing about Jabba campaign, what class deck did you use as the imperial?

My opponent had Hutt Mercenaries, which is an all-offense deck. You'll notice that the rebels also took four offensive heroes in Shyla, Vinto, Onar and Biv (and like I said, we built all of them for maximum damage) which sounds kind of like the situation you may have been in. What I found with this setup was that all of the missions usually felt really one-sided for one side or the other - even sometimes when that side ended up losing.

What I mean by that is that for both teams their only real goal was to do as much damage as quickly as possible. If the rebels rolled well that meant that the imperial often had difficulty keeping any figures on the board. On the flip side, though, it also meant that when the imperial was able to get a bunch of figures out (for example through a mission event, like in Storming the Palace) that he could wound the heroes really quickly. In some cases it went as you described, with the rebels feeling like they completely dominated the whole game only to be suddenly wounded just before the end.

Overall I still enjoyed the campaign, but I found that the combination of two super-offensive oriented sides made it less fun than it could have been. It sounds like you may have seen a similar problem.

In my campaign, rebels were mostly offensive with damage Onar, Verena, Vinto, and support MHD. The Rancor only wounded Verena, then died before his second activation. Every hero went into the pit since I was chasing them down with newly deployed ejet troopers. I wounded Vinto before he could get out of the pit, but I thought I had no hope of saving poor defenseless Jabba.

Next round, Onar opened the door and had just got in position, melee range of Jabba. Then, the rebels made a critical mistake and decided to get a second hero in melee instead of playing safe. Meanwhile, I barely wounded MHD, the last hero in the pit, who could've double rested instead of getting Vinto up close and personal with Jabba as well. This was honestly because the rebels overlooked the timer (they had more than one full round left) and were playing too offensively. I was able to use my many remaining activations to swarm and wound Onar and take the not as satisfying victory.

We simulated the Onar vs Jabba roll, and with two available attacks and Jabba rolling two defense dice from Nemesis, Onar would've killed Jabba in one attack. The mission is paced really awkwardly, the Rancor can be a huge roadblock but before and after the Rancor appears it seems to be rebels wrecking. I guess it is thematic, when Jabba runs out of minions and tricks he is taken down quite easily. I do still wish the phases were a bit more even, since the weakness of the starting units (why is an imperial officer so close to the entrance token!) Strategically promotes the imperial to save threat deployment for the harder Rancor phase.

4 hours ago, Cyphe said:

The mission is paced really awkwardly, the Rancor can be a huge roadblock but before and after the Rancor appears it seems to be rebels wrecking. I guess it is thematic, when Jabba runs out of minions and tricks he is taken down quite easily. I do still wish the phases were a bit more even, since the weakness of the starting units (why is an imperial officer so close to the entrance token!) Strategically promotes the imperial to save threat deployment for the harder Rancor phase.

This was exactly what I thought immediately after the mission. It just feels like an either/or-choice. I think the rest of the campaign was really good, my this experience in the finale left me wanting. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing, though.. Hmm, maybe a second playthrough with different heroes could change things. And another Class Deck - Nemeses is fun and flavourful, but when Shyle cleaves Bossk to death before he can activate (and with nothing to prevent it), it seems less than optimal. I want to try the other Class deck..

Thanks for your input, guys.

1 hour ago, GyldenDamgaard said:

This was exactly what I thought immediately after the mission. It just feels like an either/or-choice. I think the rest of the campaign was really good, my this experience in the finale left me wanting. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing, though.. Hmm, maybe a second playthrough with different heroes could change things. And another Class Deck - Nemeses is fun and flavourful, but when Shyle cleaves Bossk to death before he can activate (and with nothing to prevent it), it seems less than optimal. I want to try the other Class deck..

Thanks for your input, guys.

Same thing happened to me - Bossk died before he got to activate. Even with Indomitable, fully upgraded heroes can take out a lot of Villains in a single activation. You really need Vader or IG-88 for the later missions, or some very good defensive agenda cards, or you won't even get to activate your villain.

In my last campaign vs Hutt mercenaries. I had a similar experience. The rebels were doing well up to that point, but as soon as they entered the throne room, the imperial player flooded the board. They burned Jabba and rushed down to the Rancor but the units above just followed them and they were all wounded shortly after.

I feel like if the rebels had thinned out the throne room before taking out they probably would have been better off.

The correct strategy isnt obvious so some groups will go one way and somr another.

(Opinion mode)

Our Finale had the same treatment. Imp saved piles of Threat for the pit 'fall'. Fill the upper room and put a Bantha in the pit. Soooo.. Rancor eats bantha to recover 21 health...with the ability to use Jabba to gain 2 threat plus 6 threat gained per turn... place bantha... eat bantha and repeat... Heroes had great abilities and equipment, but nothing beats that. No contest. Just sucked the life out of the whole show. Looking back, no one could think of a single thing we'd have done differently (roll better??) that would not have involved prescience. Took 55 or so hits to knock out the Rancor.. by then, 3 heroes wounded and the upper room was packed with etrans and ejets. (Our allies, who jumped down to help with the Rancor weren't even allowed to leave the pit, per mission rules). Again, no contest.

There were some really interesting missions in the campaign and am a huge fan of the game. (This was our 5th campaign.)

But this left a really bad taste to have the entire 2 month campaign come down to that kind of experience. YMMV, of course, but personally, will never play this campaign again.

2 hours ago, --JP said:

(Opinion mode)

Our Finale had the same treatment. Imp saved piles of Threat for the pit 'fall'. Fill the upper room and put a Bantha in the pit. Soooo.. Rancor eats bantha to recover 21 health...with the ability to use Jabba to gain 2 threat plus 6 threat gained per turn... place bantha... eat bantha and repeat... Heroes had great abilities and equipment, but nothing beats that. No contest. Just sucked the life out of the whole show. Looking back, no one could think of a single thing we'd have done differently (roll better??) that would not have involved prescience. Took 55 or so hits to knock out the Rancor.. by then, 3 heroes wounded and the upper room was packed with etrans and ejets. (Our allies, who jumped down to help with the Rancor weren't even allowed to leave the pit, per mission rules). Again, no contest.

There were some really interesting missions in the campaign and am a huge fan of the game. (This was our 5th campaign.)

But this left a really bad taste to have the entire 2 month campaign come down to that kind of experience. YMMV, of course, but personally, will never play this campaign again.

While techinically the pit is comprised of exterior tiles... thematically it is interior. While not breaking rules as written, I think your imp player did a pretty **** move there with the bantha.

Well, playing like that is no fun fun at all...

House Rule: Figures with 'Feed' can only use that ability on small friendly figures. Also, maximum health recovered is equal to the Feeding figur's printed health rating. That should help prevent some "Feed" abouse, I think, even if the Rancor has more than the listed health in any given scenario.

1 hour ago, angelman2 said:

Well, playing like that is no fun fun at all...

House Rule: Figures with the Feed can only use that ability on small friendly figures. Also, maximum health recovered is equal to the Feeding figur's printed health rating. That should help prevent some "Feed" abouse, I think, even if the Rancor has more than the listed health in any given scenario.

Oh, I missed that... Small figures only! Mind, I haven't had the chance to use the rancor in any of my campaigns yet.

58 minutes ago, neosmagus said:

Oh, I missed that... Small figures only! Mind, I haven't had the chance to use the rancor in any of my campaigns yet.

No no, that was my spontaneous house rule. There is nothing, as far as I can see, stopping a Rancor-wielding player from having the beast eat large figurs (or even recover more health than its starting health -- if so, its an obvious oversight, but the rulebook might say something about this).

3 minutes ago, angelman2 said:

No no, that was my spontaneous house rule. There is nothing, as far as I can see, stopping a Rancor-wielding player from having the beast eat large figurs (or even recover more health than its starting health -- if so, its an obvious oversight, but the rulebook might say something about this).

Lol, OK then. Suddenly I have an idea for next time I play Canyon Run... Bring the Bantha and the Rancor...

Figures do not recover health, they recover damage.

A figure cannot suffer damage so that they would have suffered damage over their health. So, they also cannot recover damage over their Health.

(Health is almost always constant throughout a mission. There are only a couple of cases when the health of a figure can change.)

albert.. mission rule states "Apply +10 Health to the Rancor". So, Rancor has 25 Health. Still not sure that would have affected our Finale.

I wish they had stated that the pit was 'interior' - that would have prevented the campaign breaking tactic.

21 minutes ago, --JP said:

albert.. mission rule states "Apply +10 Health to the Rancor". So, Rancor has 25 Health.

That Health of 25 is constant while the Rancor is in play.

Right. I think what he's saying is once the Rancor has taken damage, it stands to gain a lot more healing from a Bantha at 25 health than at 15.