2 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:Someone may have sold Shmi to Gardulla. However, Anakin started life enslaved to Gardulla. Gardulla is the only other master before Watto Anakin ever had.
Straight from the movie:
Padmé: "How long have you been here?"
Anakin: "Since I was very little. Three, I think. My mom and I were sold to Gardulla the Hutt, but she lost us betting on the Podraces."
1 minute ago, Stan Fresh said:Straight from the movie:
Padmé: "How long have you been here?"
Anakin: "Since I was very little. Three, I think. My mom and I were sold to Gardulla the Hutt, but she lost us betting on the Podraces."
You're still missing the point. Tattooine is not a member of the Republic. This is clearly established by several character in the moive, including Qui Gon, Shmi, Watto, among others. It is a Hutt world, not a Republic world. And regardless of what you think of Hutts (by equating them to the Mafia), they do have sovereign rule over Tattooine and several other planets, in fact, an entire sector.
Just checked Wookieepedia, and it's a little vague.
Incidentally, I also learned that the actress who played Anakin's mom worked with Ingmar Bergman. Cool!
Just now, Tramp Graphics said:You're still missing the point. Tattooine is not a member of the Republic. This is clearly established by several character in the moive, including Qui Gon, Shmi, Watto, among others. It is a Hutt world, not a Republic world.
And you're trying do dodge acknowledging that you were wrong on the order of events here.
Just now, Tramp Graphics said:
And regardless of what you think of Hutts (by equating them to the Mafia),
What in the ****, man.
Just now, Tramp Graphics said:
they do have sovereign rule over Tattooine and several other planets, in fact, an entire sector.
They're gangsters (as per Panaka). In that context, "control" means something very different than being the government.
Lol posted this without saying anything.
Tatooine isn't part of the Republic. Republic credits don't even work on Tatooine. The Republic can't really go in and free a bunch of slaves, people in the system would claim the Republic is overstepping their boundaries. Who gives them the right to come into our system and disrupt our way of life?!
It's not perfect, I'm sure the Jedi would love to free slaves on every planet, but they really can't. It sucks, but it isn't the Jedi or the Republic's fault that Tatooine didn't join the Republic.
Edited by LanuriaJust now, Stan Fresh said:And you're trying do dodge acknowledging that you were wrong on the order of events here.
What in the ****, man.
They're gangsters (as per Panaka). In that context, "control" means something very different than being the government.
Yes, they're "gangsters", at least a good number of them. However, they are also a legitimate governmental power in the galaxy with their own sovereign territories. This includes an entire sector which they rule. And their territory, including all of the worlds they rule, is not part of the Republic. This includes Tattooine. Read Lords of Nal Hutta. It goes into quite an extensive bit of detail of how Hutt controlled Space is run, and it's place in the galactic scheme of things; not just as crimelords, but also as a governmental power.
17 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:Yes, they're "gangsters", at least a good number of them. However, they are also a legitimate governmental power in the galaxy with their own sovereign territories. This includes an entire sector which they rule. And their territory, including all of the worlds they rule, is not part of the Republic. This includes Tattooine. Read Lords of Nal Hutta. It goes into quite an extensive bit of detail of how Hutt controlled Space is run, and it's place in the galactic scheme of things; not just as crimelords, but also as a governmental power.
Still dodging.
Just now, Stan Fresh said:Still dodging.
Not at all. That's because the issue isn't whether or not Anakin was born while Shmi was enslaved to Gardulla, but whether or not Tatooine is a member of the Republic. The Anakin/Gardulla issue is simply some of the evidence of Tattooine not being a member of the Republic. So let's focus on that main issue. And there is plenty within the movie which explicitly establishes that Tattooine is not a member of the Republic.
Page 164 of Ultimate Star Wars:
"Because neither the Galactic Republic or Trade Federation has any jurisdiction over Tatooine..."
"because Tatooine is controlled by the devious Hutts..."
7 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:Not at all. That's because the issue isn't whether or not Anakin was born while Shmi was enslaved to Gardulla, but whether or not Tatooine is a member of the Republic. The Anakin/Gardulla issue is simply some of the evidence of Tattooine not being a member of the Republic. So let's focus on that main issue. And there is plenty within the movie which explicitly establishes that Tattooine is not a member of the Republic.
It can't be evidence in support of your claim when I've shown that you're wrong on the facts. Unless you acknowledge this and that you were flat-out wrong on the facts, there's no moving forward. You'll just keep not acknowledging anything that's inconvenient to you, and that's no way to discuss things on an internet forum dedicated to playing Let's Pretend We're Space Cowboys and Magical Princesses.
Just now, Stan Fresh said:It can't be evidence in support of your claim when I've shown that you're wrong on the facts. Unless you acknowledge this and that you were flat-out wrong on the facts, there's no moving forward. You'll just keep not acknowledging anything that's inconvenient to you, and that's no way to discuss things on an internet forum dedicated to playing Let's Pretend We're Space Cowboys and Magical Princesses.
Yes, there is, especially given that there are plenty of other facts which establish Tatooine as not being a member of the Republic, such as the passages from page 164 of Ultimate Star Wars provided by @Lanuria just moments ago. So don't get hung up on just one.
Just now, Tramp Graphics said:Yes, there is, especially given that there are plenty of other facts which establish Tatooine as not being a member of the Republic, such as the passages from page 164 of Ultimate Star Wars provided by @Lanuria just moments ago. So don't get hung up on just one.
You still haven't acknowledged that you were wrong. I'm not getting hung up on that one thing.
I'm not letting you do your usual dance.
1 minute ago, Stan Fresh said:You still haven't acknowledged that you were wrong. I'm not getting hung up on that one thing.
I'm not letting you do your usual dance.
What was he wrong about? I tried to follow along, but i don't really see what @Tramp Graphics was wrong about.
1 minute ago, Lanuria said:What was he wrong about? I tried to follow along, but i don't really see what @Tramp Graphics was wrong about.
He's referring to the Anakin/Gardulla issue.
11 minutes ago, Lanuria said:What was he wrong about? I tried to follow along, but i don't really see what @Tramp Graphics was wrong about.
Episode 1 tells us that Anakin was around three years old when he was sold to a Hutt on Tatooine. TG wrongly claimed Anakin was born into slavery under the Hutt, and took this to mean that he had been born on Tatooine.
11 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:Episode 1 tells us that Anakin was around three years old when he was sold to a Hutt on Tatooine. TG wrongly claimed Anakin was born into slavery under the Hutt, and took this to mean that he had been born on Tatooine.
Whether or not Anakin was born under Gardulla's ownership is irrelevant to whether or not he was born on Tattooine. And, more importantly, whether Tatooine is a part of the Republic.
Edited by Tramp Graphics9 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:Whether or not Anakin was born under Gardulla's ownership is irrelevant to whether or not he was born on Tattooine. And, more importantly, whether Tatooine is a part of the Republic.
You sure tried making it relevant when you thought he had been born into slavery. But now suddenly it's not.
Well, I guess this is how it is with you. Unwilling to acknowledge when you're wrong. Ergo, not worth taking seriously in discussions.
Have you acknowledged you were wrong about Tatooine, given the evidence multiple people provided?
2 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:Have you acknowledged you were wrong about Tatooine, given the evidence multiple people provided?
I asked you first.
Just now, Stan Fresh said:I asked you first.
Doesn't matter. The issue of whether or not Tatooine was part of the Reublic is the main issue, not whether Anakin was born under Gardulla's ownership. And all of the evidence clearly establishes that it was not part of the Republic.
34 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:Episode 1 tells us that Anakin was around three years old when he was sold to a Hutt on Tatooine. TG wrongly claimed Anakin was born into slavery under the Hutt, and took this to mean that he had been born on Tatooine.
I mean, he could have been born into slavery, he could have become a slave at 3. He could have been born on Tatooone, since Gardulla was a crime Lord on Tatooine.
I don't think there is much on the subject, and neither point can be proved with the current lore we have.
We do know that Tatooine was not part of the Republic and Anakin was not born on a Republic world.
6 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:Doesn't matter. The issue of whether or not Tatooine was part of the Reublic is the main issue, not whether Anakin was born under Gardulla's ownership. And all of the evidence clearly establishes that it was not part of the Republic.
Still dodging.
4 minutes ago, Lanuria said:I mean, he could have been born into slavery, he could have become a slave at 3. He could have been born on Tatooone, since Gardulla was a crime Lord on Tatooine.
I don't think there is much on the subject, and neither point can be proved with the current lore we have.
We do know that Tatooine was not part of the Republic and Anakin was not born on a Republic world.
Not from the movies, we don't. There, it's vague at best, and my interpretation certainly fits the facts as present. Something that can't be said for TG's.
8 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:Still dodging.
Not from the movies, we don't. There, it's vague at best, and my interpretation certainly fits the facts as present. Something that can't be said for TG's.
Yes the movies do. Schmi specifically states that the Republic does not exist on Tatooine. The movie specifically establishes Tatooine as a Hutt world, as stated by Qui Gon. Watto explicitly states that Republic Credits are no good on Tatooine, that Republic currency is not acceptable there; once again establishing that Tatooine is not a Republic world. The movie explicitly makes it clear that Tatooine is a Hutt world not a Republic world.
5 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:Yes the movies do. Schmi specifically states that the Republic does not exist on Tatooine.
And if Tatooine wasn't a Republic world, she wouldn't have to.
5 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:
The movie specifically establishes Tatooine as a Hutt world, as stated by Qui Gon.
We've gone over this. A crime carter is effectively controlling the world. Doesn't mean it's outside the Republic.
5 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:
Watto explicitly states that Republic Credits are no good on Tatooine, that Republic currency is not acceptable there; once again establishing that Tatooine is not a Republic world.
Because he needs something Hutts can use in their shady business.
5 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:The movie explicitly makes it clear that Tatooine is a Hutt world not a Republic world.
It really doesn't even make clear that the two aren't subsets of each other.
Oh, and: still waiting for your acknowledgement.
5 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:And if Tatooine wasn't a Republic world, she wouldn't have to.
We've gone over this. A crime carter is effectively controlling the world. Doesn't mean it's outside the Republic.
Because he needs something Hutts can use in their shady business.
It really doesn't even make clear that the two aren't subsets of each other.
Oh, and: still waiting for your acknowledgement.
When speaking to an obviously sheltered and naive teenager, yes, she does need to make that distinction clear. Palme assumed that the Republic ruled the entire galaxy; that every planet, every system was a member of the Republic and subject to Republic law. Both Qui Gon and Shmi as well as Watto made it clear at different points in the movie that the Republic has no jurisdiction on Tatooine.
The Hutts are not all gangsters, though a good number of them certainly are. Regardless, they do maintain legitimate sovereignty over several systems, including an entire sector and are not members of the Republic, and none of the worlds under their domain are either. Hutt territory is sovereign territory outside of Republic space. The Hutts make the laws there, not the Republic.and this has been firmly established in canon, not just by myself, but numerous others.