The whole (and I think very interesting) thing about the Bendu philosophy - being in balance with the Ashla and Bogan - was that in the EU that philosophy originated from the fairly unique properties of the planet Tython as a powerful and volatile Force nexus.

We don't really know what was going on out there in the Galaxy pre-Tho Yor, but after - after the Tho Yor brought the "Force representatives" of the species (or whatever they were) to Tython, what guided their (the Je'daii) use of the Force was the fact that Tython was a "Bendu" nexus. Any great disturbance in the Force either way - a bunch of sudden deaths on-planet, a bunch of... peace-niks singing Coom By Yah...(?) on-planet - caused violent reactions on-planet; Earthquakes and Storms and other Force phenomena.

So in that very unique circumstance it was easy (I guess) to see how the original way of the Je'daii was "balance". It was the only way to keep the planet from killing people and stuff (I guess).

But why Bendu is supposed to make sense anywhere else in the Galaxy than Tython, I don't know.

Obviously the whole point of Tython and the Bendu stuff that went on there in EU was to have an origin story for the Jedi/Sith split. But it seems to me like it's gonna take some Galactic mental backflips to make it relavent again, in the greater universe.

1 hour ago, emsquared said:

Obviously the whole point of Tython and the Bendu stuff that went on there in EU was to have an origin story for the Jedi/Sith split. But it seems to me like it's gonna take some Galactic mental backflips to make it relavent again, in the greater universe.

I mean, digging up ancient dead stuff is kinda routine for Star Wars ( The Sith have been extinct for a millennium! or Your sad devotion to that ancient religion... or The Jedi... All of it... It's all true. ). Thinking about it now, the revelation in Episode I that there was an entire organization dedicated to the Dark Side other than just the Emperor and Vader was mind-blowing, as was the discovery that the Jedi were once such a huge group. Who's to say this isn't the next layer of hidden lore that will shape the canon to come? The Dark Side has been around since the beginning, but the Sith were something created four movies into the franchise, and they played a huge role in both the main story and side stories. I'm honestly kinda excited for the possibilities that The Last Jedi could create, though after The Force Awakens I'm keeping my excitement tempered.

5 hours ago, Nivrap said:

I mean, digging up ancient dead stuff is kinda routine for Star Wars ( The Sith have been extinct for a millennium! or Your sad devotion to that ancient religion... or The Jedi... All of it... It's all true. ). Thinking about it now, the revelation in Episode I that there was an entire organization dedicated to the Dark Side other than just the Emperor and Vader was mind-blowing, as was the discovery that the Jedi were once such a huge group. Who's to say this isn't the next layer of hidden lore that will shape the canon to come? The Dark Side has been around since the beginning, but the Sith were something created four movies into the franchise, and they played a huge role in both the main story and side stories. I'm honestly kinda excited for the possibilities that The Last Jedi could create, though after The Force Awakens I'm keeping my excitement tempered.

A paradigm shift essentially. Destroy the old idea in favor of it's new form. Well you can want that, but if it happens it may be catastrophic. Movie people just see this stuff as movie moments, plot twists, new characters, etc. For the detail nerds like us this could be a new chapter or it could be Armageddon. I think people forget that at the end of the day these decisions are being made by movie people.

Long time (on-again off-again) lurker, bringing in some potentially annoying views...

From a game standpoint, I love what Force and Destiny has done with conflict. And I totally support what they are going for with it.

... however

I believe that they very seriously took the wrong path with the idea of the Light/Dark duality, as many others have in the past 30 years since WEG published that fateful book.

While other folks have brought up a plethora of EU/Legacy lore to the table, I would like to return to the films themselves, with regard to the so-called 'light side', and propose that there is, in fact, no such thing.

There is simply the Force. I would also propose that the Dark Side is not, in fact, one half to the Force, but is instead commonly misinterpreted as such. The Dark Side is not intrinsically linked to morality, as Jedi use it to circumvent the free-will of other beings (er, I mean, 'mind trick' people, or 'commune with animals'), and/or kill folks better (er, rather, improve their self defense capabilities (with a deadly, maiming weapon) or increase their accuracy with a starfighter's weaponry (blowing up a space station and killing everyone on board)).

The Dark Side is intrinsically linked to certain emotions and mindsets, however. Which ties into what it actually is. the Dark Side is, in reality, a perversion of the balance that is the natural state of the Force. A perversion that is easier to create when a Force User taps into certain emotions or mindsets (see: Dooku's Pride, Vader's Rage). So using the Force while fueled with rage may create a morally-good result, it is still a perversion of the balance of the Force, and therefore, pulls you to the Dark Side. Using the Force to use a power with specific Dark-Side flavors, such as Lightning? Even if it is only to recharge, say, a fuel cell? It's still tapping into the Force in a way that is a perversion, and therefore, pulls you to the Dark Side.

Remember that the first person in any of the films to mention 'The Light Side' is Kylo Ren. While praying to VaderHelmet. The term gets mentioned a few more times for good measure, but it isn't as omnipresent as the phrase 'The Dark Side'. So I'm chalking this up to 'people not knowing what they are talking about' territory. (And if the Light Side becomes True Canon, then I will just change my head canon to fit. The same way that I pretend the Darth Darth Binks theory is real, and that Padme was having a secret affair with Obi Wan up until Anakin Mind-Tricked her into marrying him (thus explaining all that terrible dialogue) - even if it's not true, it makes the films better for me going in with that mindset.)

Ahem.

So, what does this have to do with the Grey Jedi? Glad you asked!

Grey Jedi, to me, is not a term for a Jedi who walks against the council's wishes. Instead, it is a catch-all term for a Force User who wants to use the sweet, sweet Dark Side powers, without any of the Dark Side Drawbacks. Or who think they can do good deeds to balance out the evil deeds, be they actual Jedi using Lightning and Lightsabers to save all the younglings, or a Baron Do Sage doing... un-Sage-like things, but somehow sagely. But remember - the Force has no intrinsic moral compass. There is no good or evil. There is the Force as it was meant to be used, and there is the Force as others have perverted it to be used.

And no amount of mental hoops a player tries to jump through to convince themselves that they weren't tapping into the Dark Side will actually stop them from the repercussions of tapping into the Dark Side. In fact, that will just speed up their fall. Because they will think that they were in the right to use the Dark Side that way.

Which is kind of exactly how the Dark Side wants it to work.

4 hours ago, Jennkryst said:

So I'm chalking this up to 'people not knowing what they are talking about' territory.

It's worth mentioning that the Bendu mentions the Light Side, as do the Jedi when referring to the Bardottan monks in The Clone Wars. It's definitely a thing that exists, under the current light/dark dichotomy.

Also, when it comes to the discussion on Gray Jedi, there are very few people who want to do EEEEEVIL deeds while still pretending to be a good guy. What most people mean is they want to use abilities like Lighting and Force-choking for noble causes. Like a D&D Warlock, if you will.

46 minutes ago, Nivrap said:

It's worth mentioning that the Bendu mentions the Light Side, as do the Jedi when referring to the Bardottan monks in The Clone Wars. It's definitely a thing that exists, under the current light/dark dichotomy.

Also, when it comes to the discussion on Gray Jedi, there are very few people who want to do EEEEEVIL deeds while still pretending to be a good guy. What most people mean is they want to use abilities like Lighting and Force-choking for noble causes. Like a D&D Warlock, if you will.

Thing is, the force being described as "the light side" is a very recent development from the perspective of people who never read into the EU or watched the shows. You either followed the Force or the Darkside, the mythological "Light side" or more commonly "the light" was described as coming later.

Personally, I feel like it's modernizing the force for people who like dealing with their "Light, Darkness and Lighthouse" analogies, with most people who preached this "Grey Jedi" idelogy within the old EU either being fallen force users or sith in diguse.

I honestly feel it's formation originated from the writers inability to understand that the Force isn't necessarily light, just balanced while the Dark side is really twisted and unnatural. Thus they simplified it with Light and Darkness analogies, and then someone else misunderstood it and created the twilight force, creating a entire string of movies exploring the principles of immortal beings that sparkle in the sun. It was a best selling movie series.

*Flies off* XD

All jokes aside, I still think the Light and Darkness analogies stem entirely from misinterpretation over a long period of time. Being grey is being conflicted, an candle in the wind that is trying to remain strong and stable in the raging river of turmoil, amplified by the emotional connection to the river of destiny that relentlessly drives them into the rocks of destiny. They either avoid being dashed on the rocks by drifting into filthy stagment waters, or that they can accept that the force will guide them through it or kill them, and accept that their own fate is out of hand.

2 hours ago, LordBritish said:

I honestly feel it's formation originated from the writers inability to understand that the Force isn't necessarily light, just balanced while the Dark side is really twisted and unnatural.

I mean, you can feel however you like about it, but if it's canon it's canon. And a lot of us who talk about Gray Jedi stuff operate on the assumption that canon is canon. Doesn't matter if it's good writing, bad writing, intentional, or unintentional, it's there.

1 hour ago, Nivrap said:

I mean, you can feel however you like about it, but if it's canon it's canon. And a lot of us who talk about Gray Jedi stuff operate on the assumption that canon is canon. Doesn't matter if it's good writing, bad writing, intentional, or unintentional, it's there.

Is it canon, though? Is there an actual quote stating the existence of the light side in the movies?

13 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

Is it canon, though? Is there an actual quote stating the existence of the light side in the movies?

Kylo Ren, Maz, and Leia are thus far the only people who mention it, as far as I recall.

3 hours ago, Jennkryst said:

Kylo Ren, Maz, and Leia are thus far the only people who mention it, as far as I recall.

But they don't say the "the light side", they just call the Force "the light", don't they?. I think that's a significant difference. It's not light side/dark side, it's Force (also called the light)/dark side.

When I started this Thread I was reacting to some of the things I was reading in forums and also as subject matter on YouTube. I was aware of the conjecture about the new movie, but with blatant misinformation campaigns being what they are there is no way to really know what we will see in that movie concerning the Gray Jedi issue. I think that my thinking on this has changed a bit, in that I think that while there are definitely Good and Evil sides of the Force, the "Balance" thing just comes up too often to be ignored.

What is the Balance? 50 units of Light to 50 units of Dark? Is it as some people feel, a new understanding of the Force that invalidates all previous approaches? Is it a special condition whereby one individual is 50/50 light and dark and they are some sort of a spiritual leader? Or is it simply Disney pushing the marketing button and trying to grab people who can more easily relate to a Force that isn't so judgy, and can be ok with bad actions if it's a means to an end?

I imagine that for many this will be a bit of a nothing burger, another big change in a long line of drastic changes that most people don't pay any attention to anyway.

The idea of a character being conflicted over something that they intend to do, have done, or do is not a weakness, and instead actually builds the character. If they wantonly murder, torture, and destroy but have no conflict, then they are in reality a Dark Sider in everything but name. I agree with Lord British that the most visible versions of Grays have been either fallen Jedi, or Sith in disguise, and there is good reason for this. The fallen Jedi can have a variety of attitudes about his state, and may be in some denial or otherwise trying to justify what they did while still understanding as a whole that such actions were not in keeping with their original ethos as a Jedi. A Sith in disguise is simply looking to deceive, and the ambiguity of the idea of a force user who doesn't concern themselves with the duality of the force would be a good way to breed confusion. I'm not a bad guy, I just act like one.

On 10/3/2017 at 7:21 PM, Archlyte said:

If they wantonly murder, torture, and destroy but have no conflict, then they are in reality a Dark Sider in everything but name. I agree with Lord British that the most visible versions of Grays have been either fallen Jedi, or Sith in disguise, and there is good reason for this. The fallen Jedi can have a variety of attitudes about his state, and may be in some denial or otherwise trying to justify what they did while still understanding as a whole that such actions were not in keeping with their original ethos as a Jedi. A Sith in disguise is simply looking to deceive, and the ambiguity of the idea of a force user who doesn't concern themselves with the duality of the force would be a good way to breed confusion. I'm not a bad guy, I just act like one.

Not to beat a dead Tauntaun, but I gotta say something: When the vast majority of people talk about being a Gray Jedi, they don't mean committing wanton murder but still being considered a good guy. They generally mean not drawing an arbitrary line between which Force powers are Light or Dark and just determining morality based on what you actually do with those powers. It's also partly (though not mainly) about removing the stereotype of "Dark = always evil" and "Light = always good," which thankfully has been slowly chipped away by modern canon. It's not about being a murder-hobo, I swear.

I still contend that the powers associated with the Dark Side are still, well, Dark Side Powers , and even if you use them for 'good' (which I should point out is subjective, so how can we even qualify anything as such?), you are still committing a heinous, evil act, and should pay a price for it.

I have a rather risque explanation of it, but it is tricksy and there are potential triggers involved I would rather not get into.

7 hours ago, Nivrap said:

Not to beat a dead Tauntaun, but I gotta say something: When the vast majority of people talk about being a Gray Jedi, they don't mean committing wanton murder but still being considered a good guy. They generally mean not drawing an arbitrary line between which Force powers are Light or Dark and just determining morality based on what you actually do with those powers. It's also partly (though not mainly) about removing the stereotype of "Dark = always evil" and "Light = always good," which thankfully has been slowly chipped away by modern canon. It's not about being a murder-hobo, I swear.

But that's what I don't get Nivrap, how do you not have good and evil acts when you have a dark side and a light side? I'm not trying to win an argument here, I just plain don't get what that could possibly mean. Are you saying that it is boring to have good guys who are good all the time? I agree, but that doesn't mean you grade on a curve and just start moving evil to some convenient location where it's unlikely to be encroached upon except by only the most intentional acts. That is super meta and has nothing to do with the setting and everything to do with the audience, which may not sound like a bad thing until you start moving everything around based on marketing info.

I do believe you though when you say it's not murder hobo, I do get that part. And I'm still trying to understand your viewpoint so it's ok to beat the dead Tauntaun.

3 hours ago, Archlyte said:

But that's what I don't get Nivrap, how do you not have good and evil acts when you have a dark side and a light side? I'm not trying to win an argument here, I just plain don't get what that could possibly mean. Are you saying that it is boring to have good guys who are good all the time? I agree, but that doesn't mean you grade on a curve and just start moving evil to some convenient location where it's unlikely to be encroached upon except by only the most intentional acts. That is super meta and has nothing to do with the setting and everything to do with the audience, which may not sound like a bad thing until you start moving everything around based on marketing info.

Thank you for being patient, I suck at explaining things! The way I see it (and the way its visualized on Mortis), Light and Dark don't represent Good and Evil, but rather Order and Chaos, which involve Birth and Death, Sameness and Change, Stoicism and Passion. All of these things are natural parts of life, even if they're total opposites. I think Dark Siders have the potential to be heroes just as much as Light Siders have the potential to be villains, because they're not using the Good and Evil Sides of the Force, they're using the Orderly and Chaotic Sides of the Force. So, to me, Gray Jedi are just people who don't really care whether the powers they use are orderly or chaotic, but rather what those powers can be used for.

My personal theory on the Force is that it is, at least in part, quite similar to the collective unconscious that Carl Jung proposed. Rather than the Force being essential to life, life is essential to the Force - it's nature is determined by the sum total of living creatures in the galaxy. My crazy theory goes pretty far down its own rabbit hole, all the way to explaining why there are so many near-humans, and even why some of them can breed with mankind: the Force allows for literal convergent evolution, with disparate species across numerous worlds evolving toward the same forms, likely following in the steps of those Celestials on Mortis.

Since those with a connection to the Force strong enough to actually draw upon its powers are quite close to its influence, the Force is heavily influenced by these individuals. I know there's at least some evidence of this in Old Canon, as it was said that Yoda's passing strengthened the Light Side when he joined it in death. Somewhere. At least, I vaguely recall that from somewhere. Anyway, when you get the vast majority of powerful Force-wielding sentients in the galaxy following the same dualist cult, in the form of the Je'daii Order on Tython, some tryly awe-inspiring levels of confirmation bias occur. Since ibserving a trend impacts your belief so strongly, which in turn impacts the phenomenon you are observing very strongly, you literally create your own results merely by believing hard enough.

After a certain point, the mental impressions of tens of thousands of Jedi & Sith have left such a massive indent on the Force, that it becomes a self-sustaining pattern on the larger galaxy which can only be broken by a strong enough individual or a large enough group of believers. This is why there are groups in the EU that don't believe in the duality of the Force, like the Sorcerers of Tund and the Aiing-Tii, but who manage to avoid devolving into baby-eating, socially maladjusted tyrants when left to their own devices, even though the Force CLEARLY has two different sides to it.

6 hours ago, Nivrap said:

Thank you for being patient, I suck at explaining things! The way I see it (and the way its visualized on Mortis), Light and Dark don't represent Good and Evil, but rather Order and Chaos, which involve Birth and Death, Sameness and Change, Stoicism and Passion. All of these things are natural parts of life, even if they're total opposites. I think Dark Siders have the potential to be heroes just as much as Light Siders have the potential to be villains, because they're not using the Good and Evil Sides of the Force, they're using the Orderly and Chaotic Sides of the Force. So, to me, Gray Jedi are just people who don't really care whether the powers they use are orderly or chaotic, but rather what those powers can be used for.

So basically a means to an end. That's an issue for me though because while I agree that the selfishness vs. selflessness aspect is certainly important, I still don't know how it is that you figure out of something is good or not.

So lets say our Jedi wants to kill a very bad guy but he is only going to be vulnerable in a crowd of people in a city square. The Jedi can only attack with a thermal detonator because he has lost his lightsaber. So his choice is to throw the thermal detonator into the crowd. The first blast does not hit the bad guy, so our Jedi uses his only weapons left, 2 more thermal detonators. At this point he has killed dozens, but he also killed the bad guy, who was certainly going to be responsible for deaths of innocent in the future.

And you're telling me that's not Bad act because he thinks he is doing it for Good reasons? What does his thinking have to do with any of it? I don't get it.

2 hours ago, Degenerate Mind said:

My personal theory on the Force is that it is, at least in part, quite similar to the collective unconscious that Carl Jung proposed. Rather than the Force being essential to life, life is essential to the Force - it's nature is determined by the sum total of living creatures in the galaxy. My crazy theory goes pretty far down its own rabbit hole, all the way to explaining why there are so many near-humans, and even why some of them can breed with mankind: the Force allows for literal convergent evolution, with disparate species across numerous worlds evolving toward the same forms, likely following in the steps of those Celestials on Mortis.

Since those with a connection to the Force strong enough to actually draw upon its powers are quite close to its influence, the Force is heavily influenced by these individuals. I know there's at least some evidence of this in Old Canon, as it was said that Yoda's passing strengthened the Light Side when he joined it in death. Somewhere. At least, I vaguely recall that from somewhere. Anyway, when you get the vast majority of powerful Force-wielding sentients in the galaxy following the same dualist cult, in the form of the Je'daii Order on Tython, some tryly awe-inspiring levels of confirmation bias occur. Since ibserving a trend impacts your belief so strongly, which in turn impacts the phenomenon you are observing very strongly, you literally create your own results merely by believing hard enough.

After a certain point, the mental impressions of tens of thousands of Jedi & Sith have left such a massive indent on the Force, that it becomes a self-sustaining pattern on the larger galaxy which can only be broken by a strong enough individual or a large enough group of believers. This is why there are groups in the EU that don't believe in the duality of the Force, like the Sorcerers of Tund and the Aiing-Tii, but who manage to avoid devolving into baby-eating, socially maladjusted tyrants when left to their own devices, even though the Force CLEARLY has two different sides to it.

I find this idea interesting, and I think it would be a good way to explain having the Force be a bit more amorphous because it's explained as being something that needs life rather than the other way around. That might mean that the Force is something that is generated in different forms by life in all its variety.

So this would provide for the big two (Good Force, Evil Force) as well as other smaller offshoot fields of the Force which could accommodate the variants in life. This would mean that there are essentially pockets of Force which are drawn to the sort of ambiguous nature of things that is espoused by Gray Jedi or Neutral Force Users.

Keeping in mind that as of yet there has been nothing to really point toward anything like this in the movies, but I admit I like your idea, it has interesting potential.

52 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

And you're telling me that's not Bad act because he thinks he is doing it for Good reasons? What does his thinking have to do with any of it? I don't get it.

Oh no, that would definitely be a case of a bad act. All I mean is that a Force-user's choice of powers doesn't automatically dictate whether or not they're a good/bad person or capable of doing good/bad things. Take law enforcement, for example, which is something the Jedi are often a part of. Imagine how useful it would be to be able to Force choke a hostage-taker or use Lightning to disable a vehicle in a chase. These would all be pretty heroic actions, but under the "Light=Good, Dark=Bad" dichotomy, you'd still be a villain simply because you used Force choke or Lightning. On a similar note, Light powers like Mind Trick could be used to sow insane amounts of terror, so I don't think any particular Force power has a default morality. It might be easier to heal people with the Light Side or harm people with the Dark Side, but that's simply part of their binary nature.

To sum it up, your actions should be what make you a good/bad person, not the type of powers you choose to use as a Force-user.

2 minutes ago, Nivrap said:

Oh no, that would definitely be a case of a bad act. All I mean is that a Force-user's choice of powers doesn't automatically dictate whether or not they're a good/bad person or capable of doing good/bad things. Take law enforcement, for example, which is something the Jedi are often a part of. Imagine how useful it would be to be able to Force choke a hostage-taker or use Lightning to disable a vehicle in a chase. These would all be pretty heroic actions, but under the "Light=Good, Dark=Bad" dichotomy, you'd still be a villain simply because you used Force choke or Lightning. On a similar note, Light powers like Mind Trick could be used to sow insane amounts of terror, so I don't think any particular Force power has a default morality. It might be easier to heal people with the Light Side or harm people with the Dark Side, but that's simply part of their binary nature.

To sum it up, your actions should be what make you a good/bad person, not the type of powers you choose to use as a Force-user.

Ok I see, yeah I think we are getting somewhere now. Yeah I agree to a certain extent (although I do like the idea of certain powers being the purview of certain sides of the Force, I can see having exceptions) and I think you're right about the aspect of powers. I think that if it's going to follow rules for good writing, the Gray Characters need to be what Moorcock would call "Interesting Contradictions." I can see having such characters exist and even function as long as they do not change the entire scope of the setting as related to the Force. There can be anomalies, but what I don't want is for it to be the new idea that the Dark side and the Light are flawed thinking that no one could get past for epochs of study. I can see there being a possible gray area, just not that it's somehow better, easier, and more available than the other two. To me that would make no sense.

7 hours ago, Archlyte said:

Ok I see, yeah I think we are getting somewhere now. Yeah I agree to a certain extent (although I do like the idea of certain powers being the purview of certain sides of the Force, I can see having exceptions) and I think you're right about the aspect of powers. I think that if it's going to follow rules for good writing, the Gray Characters need to be what Moorcock would call "Interesting Contradictions." I can see having such characters exist and even function as long as they do not change the entire scope of the setting as related to the Force. There can be anomalies, but what I don't want is for it to be the new idea that the Dark side and the Light are flawed thinking that no one could get past for epochs of study. I can see there being a possible gray area, just not that it's somehow better, easier, and more available than the other two. To me that would make no sense.

Oh yeah, I agree with you that the whole franchise should NOT move from Light/Dark to all Gray. The duality is part of what makes the Force what it is. I just think of Gray as a 3rd path that, while offering less restriction, also has a much lower power ceiling than someone who goes full-Light or full-Dark would have. Jack of all trades, master of none, as it goes. I also don't think that the Sides necessarily need to have a particular morality associated with them in order to be interesting concepts on their own.

... and thinking 'so long as I use this Dark Side Power to do 'good deeds' with is kinda how it starts seducing you to the dark side in the first place. It is literally the reasoning behind the fall of Anakin/rise of Vader.

3 hours ago, Jennkryst said:

... and thinking 'so long as I use this Dark Side Power to do 'good deeds' with is kinda how it starts seducing you to the dark side in the first place. It is literally the reasoning behind the fall of Anakin/rise of Vader.

It's also the beauty of how that part of the morality system works to make stuff like that happen. I get what some of the people here are talking about somewhat, but at best the Gray thing would be an anomaly not a way to bypass the rest of the duality. I think the unintended fall to the dark side is way more dramatic than the edge lord route.

I am sure this has been brought up, but isn't the Force agnostic? The Force could care less if a user/power is dark side or light. The force isn't an entity, but a force of nature. I crack myself up sometimes. It's humanity that places such arbitrary measures on the Force such as light side and dark side. I always believed, perhaps incorrectly, that the Force was trying to bring balance. Anakin did re-balance the Force. It was way too light side. If that assumption is true, why wouldn't being a Grey Jedi be the ideal? If all Force users were balanced, the Force would be happy. A happy Force is always a good thing. Kinda like a happy wife but much better on a galactic scale.

2 hours ago, TrainedMunkey said:

I am sure this has been brought up, but isn't the Force agnostic? The Force could care less if a user/power is dark side or light. The force isn't an entity, but a force of nature. I crack myself up sometimes. It's humanity that places such arbitrary measures on the Force such as light side and dark side. I always believed, perhaps incorrectly, that the Force was trying to bring balance. Anakin did re-balance the Force. It was way too light side. If that assumption is true, why wouldn't being a Grey Jedi be the ideal? If all Force users were balanced, the Force would be happy. A happy Force is always a good thing. Kinda like a happy wife but much better on a galactic scale.

According to canon, the Force isn't agnostic.

There is the Living Force and there is the Cosmic Force. The Living Force is the energy and the "actual" Force that has flowed through everything that ever was and currently flows thru everything that is.

As I understand it, the Cosmic Force basically receives "feedback" from the Living Force, and reacts to that feedback, and its through the Cosmic Force that the Jedi Council senses disturbances and has visions - and receives guidance from the Will of the Force. Or at least that's how they interpret it.

What you (and many others) are talking about sounds a lot like what, in Legends, was referred to as the Potentium. A single unified Force that is neither Light nor Dark, and is merely a tool to be used.