2 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

What about this:

Spend CF token or discard. Until end of round, while a friendly ship is attacking an enemy ship, it may add X dice to their attack pool. If they do, they cannot make another attack this round.

I kinda like it. Though I could see some Akbar shenanigans....

Maybe

At the Start of the ship phase, you may discard this card or spend a [Concentrate Fire] token. If you do, until the end of the round, while a friendly ship is attacking an enemy ship from the front hull zone, it may add X dice to their attack pool. If they do, they cannot attack out any other hull zone that activation.

(Give the imps an Akbar-ish thing. )

lol

adding dice fleet wide is a powerful ability, I don't know if they'd do that. Not for cheap anyways.

Rerolls seem like the obvious route, especially considering it comes with the Cymoon which is about as reroll-hungry as they get.

I'm a terrible judge of balance, but it seems to me that rerolling any number of dice is definitely too powerful though. On the other hand, a single CF token isn't great. One per attack or two per activation sounds about right, and I'd happily play that.

For me, extra rerolls or dice are a bit vanilla. Couple of options it could be:

1) Intensify Firepower! You may spend a conc fire token or this card to allow you to change the colour of one die per attack. 8 pts.

- This would let you get more reliable flak (e.g. blue to black) or battery armament (Sato effect)

2) Intensify Firepower! You may spend a conc fire token or this card to allow you to change one die to a face with an accuracy icon. 10 pts.

- Long range flotilla killin' to stop activation spam, all the way.

3 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I kinda like it. Though I could see some Akbar shenanigans....

Maybe

At the Start of the ship phase, you may discard this card or spend a [Concentrate Fire] token. If you do, until the end of the round, while a friendly ship is attacking an enemy ship from the front hull zone, it may add X dice to their attack pool. If they do, they cannot attack out any other hull zone that activation.

(Give the imps an Akbar-ish thing. )

NVM.

4 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

You then have to consider what this would do in a (Dodonna) 30 fleet. Double arcing Dolphins with ER/EL/APT would be monstrous - 5 dice on the sides, 5/5/3+X on the front? Dead target, whatever it was. Even if X=1. 6+6 (CF) dice in one arc, with XI7, would kill almost anything. Especially with Opening Salvo (which you could use to be able to use APT in the ordnance slot and still keep the dice the same).

I think you missed the only one attack restriction.

Just now, draco193 said:

I think you missed the only one attack restriction.

I did. Noticed it right after hitting post. . .

5 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

My Salvation only shoots Black Dice. They're the only thing worth a ****.

4 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I kinda like it. Though I could see some Akbar shenanigans....

Maybe

At the Start of the ship phase, you may discard this card or spend a [Concentrate Fire] token. If you do, until the end of the round, while a friendly ship is attacking an enemy ship from the front hull zone, it may add X dice to their attack pool. If they do, they cannot attack out any other hull zone that activation.

(Give the imps an Akbar-ish thing. )

lol

adding dice fleet wide is a powerful ability, I don't know if they'd do that. Not for cheap anyways.

What about Gunnery Team ISDs? Kinda busted then...

4 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I kinda like it. Though I could see some Akbar shenanigans....

Maybe

At the Start of the ship phase, you may discard this card or spend a [Concentrate Fire] token. If you do, until the end of the round, while a friendly ship is attacking an enemy ship from the front hull zone, it may add X dice to their attack pool. If they do, they cannot attack out any other hull zone that activation.

(Give the imps an Akbar-ish thing. )

lol

adding dice fleet wide is a powerful ability, I don't know if they'd do that. Not for cheap anyways.

7 minutes ago, geek19 said:

What about Gunnery Team ISDs? Kinda busted then...

I was thinking the same thing. A front side only restriction would be a big **** you to all the Rebel broadship ships, and it would make me sad. And Imps already have solid dice manipulation.

3 minutes ago, Tiberius the Killer said:

I was thinking the same thing. A front side only restriction would be a big **** you to all the Rebel broadship ships, and it would make me sad. And Imps already have solid dice manipulation.

It's not like you'd be totally SOL. You could still get good use out of it on CR90s, Nebulon-Bs, LMC80s, Peltas, and Hammerheads. That's not a bad assortment at all.

Plus it's not as though the Fleet Command upgrades need to be equally good for both sides. All Fighters Follow Me! is better overall for Rebels than for the already-speedy Imperial squadrons.

52 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

It's not like you'd be totally SOL. You could still get good use out of it on CR90s, Nebulon-Bs, LMC80s, Peltas, and Hammerheads. That's not a bad assortment at all.

Plus it's not as though the Fleet Command upgrades need to be equally good for both sides. All Fighters Follow Me! is better overall for Rebels than for the already-speedy Imperial squadrons.

That last part is extra true because the only Imperial "slow" squadron that isn't Rogue is the Lambda. Everywhere else you're doubling up on expense elsewhere. (I'm not sold it's a bad idea with a Rhymerball of Advanced, Bombers, and Phantoms, but it's also totally untested.

27 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

That last part is extra true because the only Imperial "slow" squadron that isn't Rogue is the Lambda. Everywhere else you're doubling up on expense elsewhere. (I'm not sold it's a bad idea with a Rhymerball of Advanced, Bombers, and Phantoms, but it's also totally untested.

Re: Imperial Rogues
Agreed. If FFG wants to increase Imperial squadron diversity more than it already has (I think it's largely fine, mind you), the squadrons that need to be sped up are the Rogues, where issuing them squadron commands as a main strategy is wasting the points you spent on Rogue. I think the core issue with the Imperial Rogue assortment is that there's no flat-out good option for anti-squadron duties; the Aggressor is the closest you get and it's a pretty poor contender compared to the Rebel YT-2400 and comes off pretty badly when compared to 2 TIE Fighters in-faction as well. Once you accept that as an Imperial you're going to need to invest some points into some kind of Speed 4 and/or 5 TIEs for your fighter duties and other Speed 4 non-Rogue squadrons for support duties (TIE Advanced and Jumpmaster), the inevitable question becomes "then why would I want to use a Speed 2 or 3 Rogue if I could just use the carrier infrastructure I already need for my other squadrons to bring along more Speed 4+ squadrons (in most cases, TIE Bombers)?"

Back in the wave 2 days when a cost-effective carrier that wouldn't suffer from neglecting navigate commands was nowhere to be found (sorry, VSD), Firespray Rhymer fleets were pretty common. Ever since Gozantis and particularly the Quasar arrived, however, Imperial fleets aren't struggling to boss squadrons around anymore and they've got some good support cards to go on their carriers. Imperials went from nearly-all Rogue squadron fleets to nearly-no Rogue squadron fleets (special exception goes out to Morna Kee, who is a total boss, and to a lesser extent some of the rarely-seen Rogue bounty hunter aces). Rebels are also fairly light on Rogues nowadays themselves, although that seems at least partially due to simply less options as well as the fact that spamming YT-2400s is expensive (dollars-wise), even if it's still viable.

Re: AFFM on a Cymoon
For what it's worth I don't think it's a bad idea so much as adding +1 speed to your Speed 4 squadrons is likely not as useful as your other Fleet Command options for an Imperial fleet, especially given the Cymoon itself is rather pricey for Squadrons 3 and isn't a great foundational element for a carrier fleet. It's an entirely different matter in a Rebel fleet where it can be put on a cost-effective Command Pelta carrier and it can augment workhorse Speed 3 Rebel squadrons like X-Wings and Y-Wings to a pretty legitimate threat range compared to most squadrons or even bring Speed 2 B-Wings and YT-1300s up to "reasonable," making B-Wings much easier to get use out of (especially when paired with the Flight Commander+Fighter Coordination Team combination the Command Pelta is adept at running).

On 29/8/2017 at 8:36 PM, Darth Sanguis said:

If I had to guess it will have one of two effects:


1.) "At the Start of the ship phase, you may discard this card or spend a [Concentrate Fire] token. If you do, until the end of the round, while attacking a ship each friendly ship may reroll one die in their attack pool" -5 points


2.) "At the Start of the ship phase, you may discard this card or spend a [Concentrate Fire] token. If you do, until the end of the round, when a friendly ship attacks it may reroll any number of dice in their attack pool" -8 points




Of course, we won't know until FFG drops a preview, or maybe even until the release, but I'd be interested in hearing your theories too, lemme know what you think!

I suppose it goes around this line but I don't like any of them.

I mean, as you said, this effects are quite close to a command token effect to every ship. But the Empire already has Tarkin and the upgrades are better cause you are not banking tokens. More upgrades in the same line will make him less than a choice. Allowing the reroll of as many dice as you want would be a better idea but find a conflict with Vader. I would like something different. I mean, not so powerful as "giving" GT for every ship but in those lines I guess. Add dice or allow focusing a target at some cost. An example:

The ships may add as many dice as their command value of a colour already in their attack pool. If you do you cannot attack twice.

How much expensive it would be?

I say that cause command upgrades could be a reason to play with Tarkin and wouldn't have much sense to provide what Tarkin already gives. Unless you want a "double token" effect.

On 8/29/2017 at 1:36 PM, Darth Sanguis said:

So this is clearly all speculation, but I think it may be interesting to try to work out what "IF" may be. I think if we look at the other fleet command cards and their costs/effects we may be able to work out a pattern and guess possible versions of this new card.



With that said, here are the previous 3 for reference.



The basic structure of fleet commands

• At the Start of the ship phase, you may discard this card or spend a [?] token.
• If you do, until the end of the round...
• Effect

With that said, I think it's safe to presume this card will proc off the concentrate fire token and start as such

"At the Start of the ship phase, you may discard this card or spend a [Concentrate Fire] token. If you do, until the end of the round-"

Basic analysis of the card effects.

To me, it seems as if 2 of the existing fleet commands give the effect of the token spent to the entire fleet. "Entrapment Formation" seems to do this quite literally as it grants the entire fleet the ability to change speed by 1. If you consider the average engineering value of all the rebel ships [8@4, 4@3, 6@2] it's pretty safe to say 2/3s of the ships would generate 2 points with an engineering token (enough to restore 1 shield) in fact, in terms of averages, each ship is at about 3.1(repeating), which would still proc a 2 point engineering return. In this way I believe "Shields to Max" mimics the token effect pretty closely as well.

The odd one out, "All Fighters", seems to break away from the standard token effect to create a unique bonus. I can only speculate as to why this card doesn't also mimic the token effect, but it seems fairly clear granting every ship an extra squadron would have cause a massive shift in power... as a single GR 75 with the right upgrades could push 5 squadrons. Instead they chose to have this effect the squadrons themselves giving a speed bonus to squads activated through ships.

Taking what we see above I believe "Intensify Firepower" will follow one of these two systems.

Token effect vs unique.

The standard concentrate fire token grants a single reroll during an attack. While rerolls are arguably one of the most powerful modifiers, they are also not exactly rare or for that matter costly in most circumstances. [Balancing: Ordinance experts, leading shots, Toryn, Cf tokens vs Vader and BCCs] With this in mind I think it's entirely possible to maintain the token effect without making the fleet command too powerful.


If I had to guess it will have one of two effects:


1.) "At the Start of the ship phase, you may discard this card or spend a [Concentrate Fire] token. If you do, until the end of the round, while attacking a ship each friendly ship may reroll one die in their attack pool" -5 points


2.) "At the Start of the ship phase, you may discard this card or spend a [Concentrate Fire] token. If you do, until the end of the round, when a friendly ship attacks it may reroll any number of dice in their attack pool" -8 points




Of course, we won't know until FFG drops a preview, or maybe even until the release, but I'd be interested in hearing your theories too, lemme know what you think!



Added for laughs, pre-wave VII guess at "intensify forward firepower" below:

It's a double sided card, it starts with "Intensify forward firepower!" then flips to "TOO LATE!!!" under the right conditions...

"Intensify forward firepower!"

"While attacking a squadron, before you roll, you may add 3 black dice to the pool. If that attack fails to destroy the defender, before the attack ends, flip this card to the side "TOO LATE!!!"

"TOO LATE!!!"

"When this card is flipped to the side "TOO LATE" the owner of the defending squadron may choose to either force you to discard this card, or remove the defending squadron from play to inflict its starting hull value in face up damage cards. Once resolved flip this card to the side "Intensify forward firepower!"

Yt Kamikazes would become the new god mode...

26 minutes ago, TheToad said:

Yt Kamikazes would become the new god mode...

I mean.... a player would have to be awfully sure they could sink it before choosing to add those dice.... otherwise they're just killing their own ship lol

This is obviously wrong, but based on the event that the card is named after.

Until the end of the round, any ship making an attack from hull zone without shields increases the dice of that attack by 1 just as if it spent a CF command.

Like I said, obviously wrong, and flawed in a couple ways...but interesting for a brawling fleet. It would make some interesting tactical choices for both players too.

Following that: what about a Dominator-esque effect?

Spend a CF token or discard this card, then until the end of the round, any ship making an attack from their front hull zone may spend 1 shield to roll an additional die?

I don't know, seems eh

Or it will double the effect of a CF dial or token

I like the one die reroll for each shot or a two dice reroll for one shot. Seems about in the power scale for the others. Weak if not built around, great if built around. Also, more benefit to swarms