33 minutes ago, BergerFett said:

I agree but its still healthy to have a conversation regard flotillas. flotillas rules have already changed. I agree you need flotilla killers but at what point do you take a step back and go "maybe these are causing some issues and need to be re-defined" You needed flotilla hunters when you could put your admiral on them, so why did they fix that?

At this point, how many conversations regarding flotillas do we need to have? Is there a fresh issue regarding flotillas that hasn't already been debated to death in some other thread? Flotillas themselves haven't changed, only that a commander can no longer be on one. That was always a non issue with me as I never put my commander on a flotilla. When I played against someone who did...I didn't really care as it was "within" the rules of the game. I guess I just don't see the problem some people have with a 18-23pt. ship that has very little to no firepower. I love flotillas and everything they have brought to Armada. They have so many roles to fill in a fleet and I am still discovering new ways to use them every day.

I think the only thing that need to be done with flotillas is making them unable to be objective ships. It's not OP I'm just tired of seeing most wanted and only taking most wanted because, with a flotilla, anything else would be dumb. I know advanced gunnery works better some times but what else do you see? Opening salvo? It's most wanted all the way down.

11 minutes ago, Teh HOBO said:

I think the only thing that need to be done with flotillas is making them unable to be objective ships. It's not OP I'm just tired of seeing most wanted and only taking most wanted because, with a flotilla, anything else would be dumb. I know advanced gunnery works better some times but what else do you see? Opening salvo? It's most wanted all the way down.

If you have a cheap flotilla in your list, why wouldn't you put MW in your objective pool? The whole idea of objectives is to give the second player a way to even up the cost of not going first. If you are bidding to go first, do you really care what the second player even brings for objectives? The only thing I avoid, are objectives that can move tokens with strategic squads when I didn't bring any myself.

3 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

I was thinking about it last night, and I think Raddus might end up as a soft counter to flotilla activation padding. The ability to get your flotilla hunter into position and shooting at them really, really fast (GT Liberty in your backfield at the opening of turn 2) will help with rolling back the tide of activation padding.

We also have only seen a very few of the upgrades in this wave. Before we start proposing even more sweeping rules changes, let's see what FFG has already done to address this. They fixed the Demo triple tap menace, the useless VSD2, and the impotent bomber problems of previous waves--I have no doubt the fix for flotilla activation padding is in this wave.

How is Raddus getting a ship at the top of turn 2 behind my opponent? Don't you deploy at range 1 of a friendly ship? A speed 4 CR90+ET can cross half the board it deployed at range 3 of edge, but I don't think that's far enough behind your opponent. Certainly a flanking deployment.

Otherwise I agree. Raddus is going to counter the deployment and activation game. No longer do you have to out activate to get your main ship in arc and range.

31 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

How is Raddus getting a ship at the top of turn 2 behind my opponent?

RADDUS BOMB!

Brought to you by GrazyShiznitIndustries, maker of the Nose-Punch(TM) brand Armada Experience.

(Well, you asked, mate )

25 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

How is Raddus getting a ship at the top of turn 2 behind my opponent? Don't you deploy at range 1 of a friendly ship? A speed 4 CR90+ET can cross half the board it deployed at range 3 of edge, but I don't think that's far enough behind your opponent. Certainly a flanking deployment.

Otherwise I agree. Raddus is going to counter the deployment and activation game. No longer do you have to out activate to get your main ship in arc and range.

The CR90 could drop Profundity at range one, at an angle. Then Profundity could drop a CR90 at range one also. That's 6 inches in distance from the drops and another 4-8 inches depending on Profundity base size and angle.

11 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

RADDUS BOMB!

Brought to you by GrazyShiznitIndustries, maker of the Nose-Punch(TM) brand Armada Experience.

(Well, you asked, mate )

Touche.

40 minutes ago, itzSteve said:

If you have a cheap flotilla in your list, why wouldn't you put MW in your objective pool? The whole idea of objectives is to give the second player a way to even up the cost of not going first. If you are bidding to go first, do you really care what the second player even brings for objectives? The only thing I avoid, are objectives that can move tokens with strategic squads when I didn't bring any myself.

I do, that's the point, it's the default red. That's boring in a game about strategy and tactics and a game with 7 other red objectives(ok 6, targeting beacons is irredeemable) that you almost never think about. It makes objective choice boring and constrains design space if they want to do other red objectives as they have to be as good or extremely niche like precision strike to compete.

Most wanted+flotillas is boring and that's it's biggest sin.

1 minute ago, Teh HOBO said:

I do, that's the point, it's the default red. That's boring in a game about strategy and tactics and a game with 7 other red objectives(ok 6, targeting beacons is irredeemable) that you almost never think about. It makes objective choice boring and constrains design space if they want to do other red objectives as they have to be as good or extremely niche like precision strike to compete.

Most wanted+flotillas is boring and that's it's biggest sin.

It's more than that...it's that extra die you get to shoot at the opponents objective ship that is main draw for me. Yes, keeping the points lost to a minimum is important, but giving me more dice in the process to kill you faster...yes please!!!

17 minutes ago, itzSteve said:

It's more than that...it's that extra die you get to shoot at the opponents objective ship that is main draw for me. Yes, keeping the points lost to a minimum is important, but giving me more dice in the process to kill you faster...yes please!!!

You're misunderstanding me. I like the objective, I don't like that you can make your objective ship an 18 or 23 pt non-combat ship for such a powerful effect, no other red objective comes close.

Every other objective has a small drawback your opponent can exploit if he's good enough(or you aren't). Advanced Gunnery doubles the cost of the super ship and gives a weaker bonus to the enemy. Opening salvo has a double edge effect and gives a weaker bonus to the enemy. Precision Strike is double edge. Blockade run lets the enemy try and stop you and turns the game on its head, super fun. Close Range Intel gives a weaker bonus to the enemy. The opponemt can destroy the stations in Station Assault.

Only Most Wanted offers such a massive bonus, one ship of your choice doubled points and an extra die for all your ships shooting at it, for so little drawback when you have 18-23pt non-combat ships to choose for the intended double edge.

So everyone picks it. And one of the most interesting parts of the game, objective choice and play, is made a little boring.

2 minutes ago, Teh HOBO said:

You're misunderstanding me. I like the objective, I don't like that you can make your objective ship an 18 or 23 pt non-combat ship for such a powerful effect, no other red objective comes close.

Every other objective has a small drawback your opponent can exploit if he's good enough(or you aren't). Advanced Gunnery doubles the cost of the super ship and gives a weaker bonus to the enemy. Opening salvo has a double edge effect and gives a weaker bonus to the enemy. Precision Strike is double edge. Blockade run lets the enemy try and stop you and turns the game on its head, super fun. Close Range Intel gives a weaker bonus to the enemy. The opponemt can destroy the stations in Station Assault.

Only Most Wanted offers such a massive bonus, one ship of your choice doubled points and an extra die fpr all your ships shooting at it, for so little drawback when you have 18-23pt non-combat ships to choose.

So everyone picks it. And one of the most interesting parts of the game, objective choice and play, is made a little boring.

I think there was a thread recently that was discussing the topic of stale objectives...especially the red ones. But back to your point, yes MW gives the second player a huge advantage...but isn't that the whole point? If I have a solid bid to go first, I usually also have activation advantage on you. As a first player (as long as I stay away from the token objectives), I am looking at the objective that can keep the bonus points to a minimum or one that I can also score heavily with. I don't really care what your red objective is. If it is MW...I will probably use the objective ship you chose as bait for your ships and attack you from the flanks with my other ships. If it is Advanced Gunnery against a Home One for example, I will just slap it on my Admonition since my Liberty already has Gunnery Teams. Have you seen what a gunnery team Admo can do when it gets to throw two side arc, close range shots at two different hull zones of the same ship?

2 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

How is Raddus getting a ship at the top of turn 2 behind my opponent? Don't you deploy at range 1 of a friendly ship? A speed 4 CR90+ET can cross half the board it deployed at range 3 of edge, but I don't think that's far enough behind your opponent. Certainly a flanking deployment.

Otherwise I agree. Raddus is going to counter the deployment and activation game. No longer do you have to out activate to get your main ship in arc and range.

I meant "in your backfield" in the sense of threatening it, which is all you really need to be able to do to shut down activation padding throwaway flotillas. Which, I haven't measured it, but I'm pretty sure you can get a Liberty threatening most anywhere on the board on turn 2 in this way.

The caveat to all of this, of course, being that I've never thought flotilla activation shenanigans were a possible problem anyway, and this is just another way to deal with them...

1 minute ago, Ardaedhel said:

The caveat to all of this, of course, being that I've never thought flotilla activation shenanigans were a possible anyway, and this is just another way to deal with them...

So you don't think activating 4 flotillas before activating 3 MC30s is some how abusing the activation system? Cuz that's what I am referring to. Dropping an MC80 immediately on turn 2/3 means you have to change your activation order or risk losing ships. Assuming I don't drop the MC80 next to an MC30, you may have some trouble with your activation order.

Same concept for the Demo+4 Goz Relay Delay Bomber ****. Charge a CR90 to the flots since they tend to be removed from the fight and drop in your Raddus ship. Clean up the flots easily and gain an advantage in the squad game.

20 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

So you don't think activating 4 flotillas before activating 3 MC30s is some how abusing the activation system?

No, but I'm 100% definitely not having this conversation again.

21 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Dropping an MC80 immediately on turn 2/3 means you have to change your activation order or risk losing ships.

I agree. That's what I'm talking about.

48 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

No, but I'm 100% definitely not having this conversation again.

I agree. That's what I'm talking about.

Oh come on, it was fun the last 4 times. It's a cycle. If we don't complete it without at least 1 locked thread, is this really the Armada forums?

But yea I get it. It's a game with mechanics. Disrupting them is very fun and I expect Raddus owns the fun boat.

8 hours ago, Hrathen said:

I just want to point out that a 2 ship (0 flotillas) Star Destroyer list came in second at Gen Con. I have been looking a lot at this list, and I would put it up against any heavy flotilla list you could build.

So, I like your point and that list so I hesitate to point this out...but uh...well...you know he lost to a 4 flote list right?

I'm just saying maybe "I would put it up against any heavy flotilla list you could build" wasn't the best choice of words. Cuz I mean, I had to think about finding a heavy flote list that could demonstrably beat it for like...3 seconds.

Don't get me wrong, I think flote padding is becoming less and less of an issue, but to point at the success of this list as evidence that heavy flotes arent so great when it lost in the finals against a heavy flote list shows the fallacy of the argument?

P.S. I'd be remiss not to point out that it did beat three 2+3 lists along the way. Which either shows that its good against flote padding or that three isnt enough

13 hours ago, BergerFett said:

with sloane they can already be taken apart by few squadrons. an tie interceptor with flight controllers can one shot them by using AS. I kinda like it still but it is probably way too power.

You could make it an upgrade card. Offensive Retrofit, 10 points. "Up to 2 (1?) squadrons activated by this ship can use their anti-squadron armament when attacking a ship (or just flotilla?)"

This would force flotillas to have an escort standing by and it would be a hard choice to take as an upgrade - expensive, occupies that O Retro slot, and only affects a limited number of squads.

8 hours ago, eliteone said:

You could make it an upgrade card. Offensive Retrofit, 10 points. "Up to 2 (1?) squadrons activated by this ship can use their anti-squadron armament when attacking a ship (or just flotilla?)"

This would force flotillas to have an escort standing by and it would be a hard choice to take as an upgrade - expensive, occupies that O Retro slot, and only affects a limited number of squads.

could be a bit powerful still but i like it.

I am hoping wave 8 alleviates this a bit. I think if I played rebels id play h9s on AFs and that should easily deal with them. H9s on Arqs could do similar work i guess if you want to out meta the meta.

If you're Rebel you can pack a Home One for the accuracy generation! That will make flotillas panic.

Empire you've got Jonas.

2 hours ago, Jambo75 said:

If you're Rebel you can pack a Home One for the accuracy generation! That will make flotillas panic.

Empire you've got Jonas.

i really like jonas just have not gotten him onto the table yet but he has some serious worth