1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:He's still pretty solid on a Decimator, but you've got to spend a lot of consideration on whether to bring him or HotShot Copilot/Gunner for the same two slots and one more point.
E: and you've got to use his ability more aggressively. It'll almost never be wasted calling 'crit' on an attack.
He's OK. I almost always find Gunner/HotCop to be much more useful- they just seem quite a bit more powerful, even at +1 point.
3 minutes ago, Scumwing Apologist said:He's OK. I almost always find Gunner/HotCop to be much more useful- they just seem quite a bit more powerful, even at +1 point.
In the current meta I don't think it's quite as cut and dried as it once was. Before Nym, I would have always agreed, but the average defence dice in the current meta is somewhere a little below two at a guess, so HotCoP Gunner is in a bit of a low ebb of hitting by accident with the first shot IME.
1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:In the current meta I don't think it's quite as cut and dried as it once was. Before Nym, I would have always agreed, but the average defence dice in the current meta is somewhere a little below two at a guess, so HotCoP Gunner is in a bit of a low ebb of hitting by accident with the first shot IME.
Yeah I hear that, building a Deci these days is confusing, without a solid 'yeah this is the best' option. I've personally been trying Tactician/Gunner/Predator combos- using predator to ensure that the first shot misses, so that you can double stress someone. But VI is practically stapled on RAC so I don't think this is really viable. the Nym inspired PS wars are a really crap state of affairs.
It's actually not a bad spot for the Expose Deci. Just dish out the damage ASAP.
2 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:It's actually not a bad spot for the Expose Deci. Just dish out the damage ASAP.
Yeah, though Kylo and Expose can't be used in the same round which is a bit of a hindrance.
2 minutes ago, Scumwing Apologist said:Yeah, though Kylo and Expose can't be used in the same round which is a bit of a hindrance.
Experimental Interface.
If you're not PS10 and you're aiming to Expose every round, then Engine is probably not worth it anyway.
Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)
Expose (4)
Rebel Captive (3)
Kylo Ren (3)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
Experimental Interface (3)
Dauntless (2)
"Quickdraw" (29)
A Score to Settle (0)
Fire-Control System (2)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Pattern Analyzer (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)
Total: 100
View in Yet Another Squad Builder
For instance. Dropping a point off the HotShot Gunner RAC allows for QD to get Cruise Missiles and PA, or coming soon, Harpoon MIssiles.
WOuld probably be better with Adaptability oN QD, thinking about it though, so that he can drop down to RAC's PS if he wants, allowing the choice of shooting and/or movement order.
Expose isn't necessarily about control with Kylo, it's about burning people down. Expose RAC really need the TL or your extra dice you've got from Expose isn't worthwhile.
I'd consider maybe a double Deci list with Kylo on a second ship? If you were desperate to get Kylo in.
2 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:Expose isn't necessarily about control with Kylo, it's about burning people down. Expose RAC really need the TL or your extra dice you've got from Expose isn't worthwhile.
I'd consider maybe a double Deci list with Kylo on a second ship? If you were desperate to get Kylo in.
I'm not, particularly.
Swap him for Vader, burn things even MORE quickly.
On 28.8.2017 at 11:12 PM, Vineheart01 said:Rebels are probably the worse offenders at internal balance.
Their basic ships are so bad they only function with crew/astro/EPT/buddy pilot combos, but then they get kinda ridiculous. I challenge any rebel player to field something that isnt Biggs/Low-protected, Hyperdash, Miranda, or Rey+Finn and actually perform decently.
Nym + Corran Horn
SCNR 
9 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:Expose isn't necessarily about control with Kylo, it's about burning people down. Expose RAC really need the TL or your extra dice you've got from Expose isn't worthwhile.
Palp can fill this role. Roll up at range 2, Expose + EI into Kylo. Roll 4 reds, Palp a crit, RAC another crit. The X-wing Dice Probability calculator tells me it's slightly better than having a TL. You avg about 3.5 hits at range 2.
Hey guys, just to add to the original 'discussion' about the meta.
First of all, not all store championships are added to list juggler. I know several in my country who doesn't do it, so they won't be added to your meta-wing.
I don't believe that my country is the only place where people do NOT use listjuggler after a store championship, so the data might not be as strong as one could believe.
second of all, just a fun poke at the palp-nerf discussion. Didn't duncan howard win with omega leader/quickdraw/palpshuttle at a SC showed on SteleTV? Against... Fairship rebels 2.0 nonetheless!
;-)
The meta does have issues, but it is in a healthier place than deadeye-scouts and triple defenders in my opinion.
28 minutes ago, ModernPenguin said:Hey guys, just to add to the original 'discussion' about the meta.
First of all, not all store championships are added to list juggler. I know several in my country who doesn't do it, so they won't be added to your meta-wing.
I don't believe that my country is the only place where people do NOT use listjuggler after a store championship, so the data might not be as strong as one could believe.
second of all, just a fun poke at the palp-nerf discussion. Didn't duncan howard win with omega leader/quickdraw/palpshuttle at a SC showed on SteleTV? Against... Fairship rebels 2.0 nonetheless!
;-)
The meta does have issues, but it is in a healthier place than deadeye-scouts and triple defenders in my opinion.
No, not all Store Champs are up loaded to list juggler. I've heard a few places in my area ignore it entirely and others sometime have too much on their plate already to spend time copying the lists out. But honestly, results from the SC we do have already tell of a decent amount of Imperial success. It's at the higher level play where they are not preforming, and that's worrying. And it's honestly not lists like FSR that is the problem for Imps. Heck, I'd go further and say that high PS Imps Aces (including OL and QD) have a good match up against FSR in the right hands.
I know some people tend to think that only the local meta up to SCs matters, but I disagree. Upper level play strips away variables, leaving a better view on what is (or at least considered) competitive. And to my mind, an entire faction not being able to preform at that upper level is worse than the triple Defenders era and possibly worse than the deadeye scouts era because Rebels still managed to pull out some wins. Now, that doesn't mean I particularly want those old eras back. I would prefer to move forward rather than back. But they still at least had better faction representation than today's meta.
Edit: I don't want to totally discard the idea that there are things better in this meta then they were in previous ones. As old Obi Wan would say, from a certain point of view, things are better and I can understand if people concentrate on those points of view. I'm just not convinced that the good outweigh the bad in this instance from my vantage point.
Edited by SabineKey1 hour ago, SabineKey said:No, not all Store Champs are up loaded to list juggler. I've heard a few places in my area ignore it entirely and others sometime have too much on their plate already to spend time copying the lists out. But honestly, results from the SC we do have already tell of a decent amount of Imperial success. It's at the higher level play where they are not preforming, and that's worrying. And it's honestly not lists like FSR that is the problem for Imps. Heck, I'd go further and say that high PS Imps Aces (including OL and QD) have a good match up against FSR in the right hands.
I know some people tend to think that only the local meta up to SCs matters, but I disagree. Upper level play strips away variables, leaving a better view on what is (or at least considered) competitive. And to my mind, an entire faction not being able to preform at that upper level is worse than the triple Defenders era and possibly worse than the deadeye scouts era because Rebels still managed to pull out some wins. Now, that doesn't mean I particularly want those old eras back. I would prefer to move forward rather than back. But they still at least had better faction representation than today's meta.
Edit: I don't want to totally discard the idea that there are things better in this meta then they were in previous ones. As old Obi Wan would say, from a certain point of view, things are better and I can understand if people concentrate on those points of view. I'm just not convinced that the good outweigh the bad in this instance from my vantage point.
Well the upper levels of play are just starting. We've had, what.. 3-4 nationals so far?
I agree that regionals/nationals/worlds show a better competitive meta than store championships.
But I do disagree that there was better showing in the defenders era.
Rebels was almost completely absent from the top tables, and many considered it a weak faction at the time.
I think the reason imperials does not show as well on meta-wing, is that the lists are very varied, with different aces and approaches to the higher ends of imperial play. Unlike rebel and scum that only has 2-3 lists that does well, which shows easier on meta-wing. At least that is my understanding of how the site works, correct me if I am wrong!
As you say. From a certain point of view.. I would say that a faction that has decent representation after the cut at a big tournament is in a healthy spot. Anything after the cut is vastly up to individual skill level, and matchups (not unlike swiss, but you can salvage a bad match to a decent MoV).
2 hours ago, SabineKey said:No, not all Store Champs are up loaded to list juggler. I've heard a few places in my area ignore it entirely and others sometime have too much on their plate already to spend time copying the lists out. But honestly, results from the SC we do have already tell of a decent amount of Imperial success. It's at the higher level play where they are not preforming, and that's worrying. And it's honestly not lists like FSR that is the problem for Imps. Heck, I'd go further and say that high PS Imps Aces (including OL and QD) have a good match up against FSR in the right hands.
I know some people tend to think that only the local meta up to SCs matters, but I disagree. Upper level play strips away variables, leaving a better view on what is (or at least considered) competitive. And to my mind, an entire faction not being able to preform at that upper level is worse than the triple Defenders era and possibly worse than the deadeye scouts era because Rebels still managed to pull out some wins. Now, that doesn't mean I particularly want those old eras back. I would prefer to move forward rather than back. But they still at least had better faction representation than today's meta.
That's the problem though, "in the right hands". when you start talking about the higher levels of meta the extra strain of using a list that's not "meta" will leave it in the dust, because the pro's aren't going to risk mental fatigue of the day costing them finals. same with complex lists and time (that aren't abusing it with tag mov and run)
Edited by RalgonOn 8/28/2017 at 0:47 PM, Boom Owl said:And Emo Kylo Ren and RAC Palp will be there ready to stop you. To table Nym and restore balance to the meta.
Kylo Ren Is the Emo Hero We Deserve
Go Home Nym Your Blind Drunk and Pilot Skill Zero!
I'm sorry, but almost all the new nym's have Determination. with AC and AT. Have a nice day
8 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:I'm sorry, but almost all the new nym's have Determination. with AC and AT. Have a nice day
If thats true then Kylo did his job forcing Nym back to PS8 and restoring Balance to the PS Wars.
Would open up the board for all sorts of PS9 Aces again 
and take away Nym's primary advantage PS10 placing bombs and tlt/ab range with 100% information.
Nope, because Nym would move first and Bomb them before they moved.
16 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:I'm sorry, but almost all the new nym's have Determination. with AC and AT. Have a nice day
Uh.. What?
Citation, please.
Edit: Meta-Wing says you're wrong, placing Determination at #204... Veteran Instincts is definitely the way to most used, unless there is an underground tactic that I'm not aware of.
Edited by Rinzler in a Tie13 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:Uh.. What?
Citation, please.Edit: Meta-Wing says you're wrong, placing Determination at #204... Veteran Instincts is definitely the way to most used, unless there is an underground tactic that I'm not aware of.
Very true for what has happened in the past. But people are changing. Look at recent videos Determination on Nym has become a thing now, that people have flown him for a while, because of the Kylo issue. Two of the guys I play with have switched and it really doesn't have any negative effect. Except that he cannot be Kylo'ed and that he ignores pilot crits. Keeping him PS 8 longer.
Edited by eagletsi1113 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:Very true for what has happened in the past. But people are changing. Look at recent videos Determination on Nym has become a thing now, that people have flown him for a while, because of the Kylo issue. Two of the guys I play with have switched and it really doesn't have any negative effect. Except that he cannot be Kylo'ed
Hit me up with those video links.
I'd be shocked to see this - at PS 8 he gets murdered by Dengar (and other VI Nyms) and dies to simultaneous fire from a lot more other ships (namely Miranda). But I'm listening if someone has more arguments for it other than Kylo, who I imagine you won't face enough in this meta to justify.
22 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:Nope, because Nym would move first and Bomb them before they moved.
You do realise Bomblets detonate at the end of the round, don't you?
Just now, FTS Gecko said:You do realise Bomblets detonate at the end of the round, don't you?
Unless .. Is there also a shift to action bombs on Nym? This thread has gone completely off the reservation...
1 minute ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:Unless .. Is there also a shift to action bombs on Nym? This thread has gone completely off the reservation...
If that's the case then there's nothing to worry about. PS8 Nym with one action and Clusters, Conners or Proximity Mines? That's a pretty average build, and one which uses very few of the ship's strengths.
1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:If that's the case then there's nothing to worry about. PS8 Nym with one action and Clusters, Conners or Proximity Mines? That's a pretty average build, and one which uses very few of the ship's strengths.
Yeah, I'm not buying any of it.