Hello, need a little help with droids as NPC and as PC. I'm a player that playing a Droid that is a Droid Tech. In combat if I see a droid I will always try to shut it down in combat to salvage and reprogram later. Recently the DM had a mission where the enemy droid did it to my NPC droids and attempted to do it to me. But here's the thing how do it with PC droids? I know restraining bolts work differently with PC droids and it should be the same for hacking PC droids otherwise there's no point playing a droid because a hacker can steal the PC droid as easily as a NPC. How to properly handle shutting down combat NPC droids and slicing PC droids? Not looking for "taste of your own medicine" answer but fair and balanced solutions.
Droid player help.
I mean, that's not how droids work at all. They're not a Dell laptop that you can send a virus to. Any attempts to reprogram a PC Droid should be met with the appropriate resisted skill check (mechanics or computers vs, say, discipline/resilience/computers/etc). Even then this should take a considerable amount of time and the Droid can resist as part of it physically.
I would never allow a Droid PC to be "hacked" in my game any more than a human PC could be brainwashed against his will (certain Force powers excluded).
Asking the same question a second time isnt likely to give you different answers. You should still talk to your GM and work this out with him first. It is still his game and what we say is still pretty irrelevant.
At its most basic tho, the procedure for hacking a PC droid is the GM saying 'You've been hacked, you are now doing what the bad guy says'. GMs dont have to follow the rules for characters.
On the other hand, doing this without the players permission is a complete **** move. The player should be saying not only just 'No', but 'Oh, Heck NO!'
That is why I said you need to work this out with your GM and ask him why he is trying to take your character away.
Yes, talk to your GM. It's possible, since you said always, that you're doing it too much and in situations that really don't warrant it story wise and it's holding up or taking too long during sessions. I know you don't want a "taste..." argument but take a moment to step back and look at the situation objectively. How often do you stop the flow of the action to re-program an enemy droid? What is the GM and the other players doing during this time? Do they roll their eyes or get up and get snacks or start talking about other stuff? Do you argue if the GM says theres no time for that or tries to get things moving again or that the droid it too damaged or anything to get you to not do it? If so it may be that your gimmick is getting a bit stale and my advice is to choose your battles better, ie. don't go for every droid maybe only ones that are special.
Edited by FuriousGreg
Also, how exactly do you reprogram a droid during combat? All electronics in SW require physical contact with the appropriate port (reference every scene with R2-D2 hacking and that scene with K-2S0) so how are you doing it in your game?
If it was me to hack a droid during combat you'd have to do something like this:
1. Physically overcome the Droid, meaning beat it into unconsciousness, stun it with an ion gun, or successfully restrain it by grappling or some other means.
2. Insert your connection.
3.
Then
go through the whole slicing thing.
I forget where this is discussed, but the only time it is possible to anything close would be after you are incapacitated in some manner as others have mentioned. Even then, the only time the GM should do something like relocate you, is for story progression or a fun side plot for your group. As a droid PC, you are always able to "overcome" any attempts at slicing because your programming is too rogue to be kept in check.
21 hours ago, FuriousGreg said:Also, how exactly do you reprogram a droid during combat? All electronics in SW require physical contact with the appropriate port (reference every scene with R2-D2 hacking and that scene with K-2S0) so how are you doing it in your game?
If it was me to hack a droid during combat you'd have to do something like this:
1. Physically overcome the Droid, meaning beat it into unconsciousness, stun it with an ion gun, or successfully restrain it by grappling or some other means.
2. Insert your connection.
3. Then go through the whole slicing thing.
Now I have a weird image of a Droid rapist along the lines of Bill Cosby.
2 hours ago, HappyDaze said:Now I have a weird image of a Droid rapist along the lines of Bill Cosby.
It's actually an apt analogy.
In any case, and the OP can confirm or deny, my guess is that the first time the PC re-programmed a Droid this way they Rule of Cool'ed it and skipped the whole having to physically overcome the Droid first, now the GM is stuck with it happening the same way all the time and it's getting out of hand. It's one of my arguments against using the RoC too often and without the caveat that they are one time occurrences due to circumstance not a new general rule.
On 8/29/2017 at 11:50 AM, korjik said:Asking the same question a second time isnt likely to give you different answers. You should still talk to your GM and work this out with him first. It is still his game and what we say is still pretty irrelevant.
At its most basic tho, the procedure for hacking a PC droid is the GM saying 'You've been hacked, you are now doing what the bad guy says'. GMs dont have to follow the rules for characters.
On the other hand, doing this without the players permission is a complete **** move. The player should be saying not only just 'No', but 'Oh, Heck NO!'
That is why I said you need to work this out with your GM and ask him why he is trying to take your character away.
Sorry, wasn't asking the same question twice, it just got posted twice. Second this is to help him since we both are looking for a fair solution, so what you say is relevant. But telling me to work with my DM when I already been trying to and reason for this post is unfortunately not helpful for this situation.
Edited by GrimstoryOK, everyone saying reprogram in combat is missing "shut it down in combat" part also. Need a ruling on that also.
Edited by Grimstory
On 9/1/2017 at 9:05 AM, FuriousGreg said:Yes, talk to your GM. It's possible, since you said always, that you're doing it too much and in situations that really don't warrant it story wise and it's holding up or taking too long during sessions. I know you don't want a "taste..." argument but take a moment to step back and look at the situation objectively. How often do you stop the flow of the action to re-program an enemy droid? What is the GM and the other players doing during this time? Do they roll their eyes or get up and get snacks or start talking about other stuff? Do you argue if the GM says theres no time for that or tries to get things moving again or that the droid it too damaged or anything to get you to not do it? If so it may be that your gimmick is getting a bit stale and my advice is to choose your battles better, ie. don't go for every droid maybe only ones that are special.
First I don't stop the flow, in combat on my turn is part of the flow. Second I don't reprogram a droid, I shut it down and later during Downtime reprogram the droid (which isn't during our game sessions). Third is a whole class, the whole point of it Droid Tech, build and reuses droids. So maybe help the question being asked and not assume the player is the problem.
Edited by GrimstoryOn 9/1/2017 at 9:32 AM, FuriousGreg said:Also, how exactly do you reprogram a droid during combat? All electronics in SW require physical contact with the appropriate port (reference every scene with R2-D2 hacking and that scene with K-2S0) so how are you doing it in your game?
If it was me to hack a droid during combat you'd have to do something like this:
1. Physically overcome the Droid, meaning beat it into unconsciousness, stun it with an ion gun, or successfully restrain it by grappling or some other means.
2. Insert your connection.
3. Then go through the whole slicing thing.
If "All electronics in SW require physical contact with the appropriate port" then how does communication work or combat actions like Slice the Enemy's Systems/Jamming/"SPOOF" Missiles?
18 minutes ago, Grimstory said:Slice the Enemy's Systems
That very rule actually irked a number of players (myself included) because of the perception of the Star Wars universe lacking wifi.
As for communications, jamming, and missile spoofing; those don't necessarily require the transmission and reception of complex data. The technology to jam radars and missile guidance systems existed decades before wifi in the real world, and the transmission of soundwaves has been going on for over a century.
3 hours ago, Grimstory said:Sorry, wasn't asking the same question twice, it just got posted twice. Second this is to help him since we both are looking for a fair solution, so what you say is relevant. But telling me to work with my DM when I already been trying to and reason for this post is unfortunately not helpful for this situation.
You do need to tell us what your discussions with your GM are then. Both sides, your arguement and his.
If you really want my opinion, if you are wirelessly hacking droids and shutting them down that way, I would say this is not Shadowrun so no, you cant do that at all. If he doesnt have a problem with wirelessly hacking then the anything you can do, I can do better rule comes into effect, and if you can hack a nemesis, I can hack you. If you do it to every droid you come across, I would start giving you 'droid rustler' obligation and when it triggered, some problem would come up because of your stealing droids. If you have turned my game into Ice Pirates, I would just tell you no, or have an R2 start a droid revolt amongst your droids. If all you are doing is stealing astromechs for the rebellion, and that was your motivation/duty I would be giving you XP.
So, I at the very least need to know more specifics. But that doesnt change what I said about talking to him and our opinions being irrelevent. If you GM is getting annoyed with your stealing droids, to the point where he wants you to knock it off, then knock it off. An annoyed GM isnt having fun, and he is supposed to like what he is doing too.
Grimstory, chillax, don't get offended when people are trying to help and you don't like the answer. Apparently you annoyed your gm and that is the key issue. If you and your gm are trying to work this out and are open to input from this community then ask your gm to post his side of the story in this thread, because until he does the rest of us don't really know what the situation is so can't provide meaningful advice.
Also the point of the Droid tech spec is to enhance Droid not to steal them. Usually the Droid tech builds or buys his own droid army rather than essentially mind ****** enemy droids. I also don't think the gm should have let, what he apparently considers a problem to get so out of hand and he doesn't know any other way to fix the problem.
Have to agree with Elias. It sounds like you annoyed your GM. You should talk to him about it. What I am guessing your GM is pissed about is you trying to munchkin by collecting PC droids. I know it is not what you want to hear but you did set the precedent. Yes it should be harder to reprogram a PC droid but droids get plenty of benefits. Perhaps this should be a drawback for you to fear. If you really can't deal with it then talk to your GM and tell him you don't like it. Do keep in mind, however, that most GMs hate munchkins. You should also keep in mind that it is your GM's game and he can run it how he see's fit. If your behaviour is preventing him from having fun, then your behaviour is preventing everyone else at the table from having fun.
7 hours ago, Grimstory said:OK, everyone saying reprogram in combat is missing "shut it down in combat" part also. Need a ruling on that also.
This is covered in one of the tip boxes in a book. It essentially says that droid pcs do not get shut down like normal droids might with qualities like ion. I'm not sure if this is what you are referencing, though.
9 hours ago, Grimstory said:First I don't stop the flow, in combat on my turn is part of the flow. Second I don't reprogram a droid, I shut it down and later during Downtime reprogram the droid (which isn't during our game sessions). Third is a whole class, the whole point of it Droid Tech, build and reuses droids. So maybe help the question being asked and not assume the player is the problem.
Okay, cool your jets I'm not trying to dump on you.
How do you shut down an NPC droid during combat? Give me an example from one of your sessions so I can get an idea and give a better response.
QuoteIf "All electronics in SW require physical contact with the appropriate port" then how does communication work or combat actions like Slice the Enemy's Systems/Jamming/"SPOOF" Missiles?
Well, okay it should be pretty obvious what I meant but thats my fault. Let me try again. Every time we see anything like this happening in the films or in shows like Rebels, where characters are shutting down or reprogramming Droids, or slicing into systems to open doors, find data or whatever, it involves physical contact with the droid or a workstation on site. My comments are driven by these examples. You don't have to like it but that seems to be how things work in the SW Universe.
Edited by FuriousGreg10 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:Grimstory, chillax, don't get offended when people are trying to help and you don't like the answer. Apparently you annoyed your gm and that is the key issue. If you and your gm are trying to work this out and are open to input from this community then ask your gm to post his side of the story in this thread, because until he does the rest of us don't really know what the situation is so can't provide meaningful advice.
Also the point of the Droid tech spec is to enhance Droid not to steal them. Usually the Droid tech builds or buys his own droid army rather than essentially mind ****** enemy droids. I also don't think the gm should have let, what he apparently considers a problem to get so out of hand and he doesn't know any other way to fix the problem.
Completely agree. The book states that NPC droids are disabled beyond repair during combat, and thus removes the question of ever being able to reprogram an NPC droid. It seems there were some mistakes here that may need a retcon in your system.
On 9/4/2017 at 2:19 PM, korjik said:You do need to tell us what your discussions with your GM are then. Both sides, your arguement and his.
If you really want my opinion, if you are wirelessly hacking droids and shutting them down that way, I would say this is not Shadowrun so no, you cant do that at all. If he doesnt have a problem with wirelessly hacking then the anything you can do, I can do better rule comes into effect, and if you can hack a nemesis, I can hack you. If you do it to every droid you come across, I would start giving you 'droid rustler' obligation and when it triggered, some problem would come up because of your stealing droids. If you have turned my game into Ice Pirates, I would just tell you no, or have an R2 start a droid revolt amongst your droids. If all you are doing is stealing astromechs for the rebellion, and that was your motivation/duty I would be giving you XP.
So, I at the very least need to know more specifics. But that doesnt change what I said about talking to him and our opinions being irrelevent. If you GM is getting annoyed with your stealing droids, to the point where he wants you to knock it off, then knock it off. An annoyed GM isnt having fun, and he is supposed to like what he is doing too.
Not stealing droids, abounded droids or ones that attack us. Not wireless, I run up in combat to them and shut them off. Already have a obligation and motives that are the reason for it. You're not asking questions but assuming.
> But that doesnt change what I said about talking to him and our opinions being irrelevant < Wrong Twice now. I'm asking for help with situation and hence for the posting.
You do need to tell us what your discussions with your GM are then. Both sides, your arguement and his. - Would if every time i try to talk more with him tells me he's looking for more info and that's reason for this post is to come up with a fair solution for both parties.
On 9/4/2017 at 2:56 PM, EliasWindrider said:Grimstory, chillax, don't get offended when people are trying to help and you don't like the answer. Apparently you annoyed your gm and that is the key issue. If you and your gm are trying to work this out and are open to input from this community then ask your gm to post his side of the story in this thread, because until he does the rest of us don't really know what the situation is so can't provide meaningful advice.
Also the point of the Droid tech spec is to enhance Droid not to steal them. Usually the Droid tech builds or buys his own droid army rather than essentially mind ****** enemy droids. I also don't think the gm should have let, what he apparently considers a problem to get so out of hand and he doesn't know any other way to fix the problem.
I don't mind that help but I do want help but assuming instead of asking question is smack to the face. Now that being said, Droid tech has many purposes that includes taking droids(not stealing). Plus its not uncommon for people to take droids(not saying no repercussions) but if we are anti Empire or anti gangs that send the droids to kills us...can you really say that taking the droids away is anymore wrong then then killing storm troopers or criminals? Now that being said i have only taking two droids in combat that weren't part of a quest. The quest was a couple mouse droids and got dismantled.
Edited by Grimstory15 hours ago, Geodes said:Completely agree. The book states that NPC droids are disabled beyond repair during combat, and thus removes the question of ever being able to reprogram an NPC droid. It seems there were some mistakes here that may need a retcon in your system.
Not missed, droids are not destroyed but turned off in a sense. The one that's do get shot to death are destroyed and reused as scrap.
turn off protocol droids sure. military droids not so much
20 hours ago, FuriousGreg said:Okay, cool your jets I'm not trying to dump on you.
How do you shut down an NPC droid during combat? Give me an example from one of your sessions so I can get an idea and give a better response.Well, okay it should be pretty obvious what I meant but thats my fault. Let me try again. Every time we see anything like this happening in the films or in shows like Rebels, where characters are shutting down or reprogramming Droids, or slicing into systems to open doors, find data or whatever, it involves physical contact with the droid or a workstation on site. My comments are driven by these examples. You don't have to like it but that seems to be how things work in the SW Universe.
That has nothing to do with liking your comments but it assumes the worse of the individual instead of asking. Example: I run to a droid in combat and mechanic or computer skill to turn it off.
5 minutes ago, Daeglan said:turn off protocol droids sure. military droids not so much
Why not? They would need to be shut off in case of malfunction?