3 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

Thank you for the pics Zelux. As above ATC says, "you may add one (crit) to your roll"

The way I've ruled this is that you are adding the crit before the modify dice step and that is why you cannot use target sync. My ruling is in the same vein as Zuckuss rerolls C-3PO's added result.

You are wrong about this. C-3PO specifies a trigger point outside the modify dice step, which is why he works when he does, as does HLC. They're exceptions, not the rule. Unless specified, all modifications to attack and defence dice take place in their relevant steps.

Hmm... I see your point about specified timing as C-3PO does explicitly say before modifying dice. I was under the impression that the word "immediately" (as appears on HLC) has no game meaning and is implied on all after-something effects since the FAQ says "immediately" is purely reminder text.

1 hour ago, nitrobenz said:

Hmm... I see your point about specified timing as C-3PO does explicitly say before modifying dice. I was under the impression that the word "immediately" (as appears on HLC) has no game meaning and is implied on all after-something effects since the FAQ says "immediately" is purely reminder text.

Yes, for HLC "immediately after rolling dice" is no different from "after rolling dice". But "after rolling dice" is before "during Attacker Modifies Attack Dice".

Yup. 'After rolling dice' is the trigger for HLC which is what puts it outside the normal modify dice step. Things take place then *unless otherwise specified* which that is.

30 minutes ago, digitalbusker said:

Yes, for HLC "immediately after rolling dice" is no different from "after rolling dice". But "after rolling dice" is before "during Attacker Modifies Attack Dice".

4 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yup. 'After rolling dice' is the trigger for HLC which is what puts it outside the normal modify dice step. Things take place then *unless otherwise specified* which that is.

So... Adding a result to your roll is not technically adding to your roll, but rather adding to your pool during the modify dice step?

11 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

So... Adding a result to your roll is not technically adding to your roll, but rather adding to your pool during the modify dice step?

Yes, that's how adding results works.

The only thing results can be added to is a pool of results. Sometimes we might say "add a [foo] result to your roll", but you can't roll a result, so in context we must mean "add a [foo] result to your results."

I think the question here should be if there's anything preventing this combo from working:

During the "modify attack dice"-step, you have a TL on the target, so does a friendly ship with TS and you do the following:

1) Spend the TS lock to re-roll dice. Nothing prevents you from doing this.

2) Add a crit with ATC. Nothing prevents you from doing this. The restriction on spending TLs don't apply before after you're done. It's a second sentence.

It's kind of similar to how Accuracy Correctors can prevent you from spending a focus token when firing on a ship with Hotshot Co-pilot, if you use AC first.

On ‎19‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 11:19 PM, thespaceinvader said:

Yes, that's how adding results works.

That's also why it falls foul of Omega Leader's ability.

Could the FAQ clarification for Accuracy Corrector vs Hotshot (faq4.3.3 p.18) be used as a precedent in this case? According to the FAQ order of operations allows the AC's cannot to overrule the Hotshot's must by being applied first.

It seems the same reasoning should allow spending a target lock (via Target Synchro) before applying a separate effect that says you can't (ATC).

30 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

Could the FAQ clarification for Accuracy Corrector vs Hotshot (faq4.3.3 p.18) be used as a precedent in this case? According to the FAQ order of operations allows the AC's cannot to overrule the Hotshot's must by being applied first.

It seems the same reasoning should allow spending a target lock (via Target Synchro) before applying a separate effect that says you can't (ATC).

Not just could, RAW, it does.

Any update, @Estarriol ?

None at all, but it’s early days I’m satisfied with the call that it works until an FAQ Says the contrary. Heck, I still don’t agree that TS works as written without an attack:target lock header but that was ruled the opposite way. This game seems to like tormenting us!

On 2017-09-19 at 6:08 PM, nitrobenz said:

So... Adding a result to your roll is not technically adding to your roll, but rather adding to your pool during the modify dice step?

On 2017-09-21 at 7:37 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

That's also why it falls foul of Omega Leader's ability.

Im not sure i understand this one. Which ability falls foul of OL "cant be modified"? From what i understood anything that adds (or change) a fixed result to a roll is a modification. I though this included: C3PO, HLC (you keep the crits instead of changing the to hits), ATC (cant add the crit), Finn (cant add a blank), Norra (adding a focus), etc. Did i miss something?

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

Im not sure i understand this one. Which ability falls foul of OL "cant be modified"? From what i understood anything that adds (or change) a fixed result to a roll is a modification. I though this included: C3PO, HLC (you keep the crits instead of changing the to hits), ATC (cant add the crit), Finn (cant add a blank), Norra (adding a focus), etc. Did i miss something?

It being a modification is why ATC falls foul of OL, as opposed to adding a die, like Miranda (for instance) does.

It's an entirely irrelevant aside.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

It being a modification is why ATC falls foul of OL, as opposed to adding a die, like Miranda (for instance) does.

It's an entirely irrelevant aside.

i still dont understand... If it's a modification, shouldnt it be prevented by OL? Or is that something that was FAQed?

24 minutes ago, Thormind said:

i still dont understand... If it's a modification, shouldnt it be prevented by OL? Or is that something that was FAQed?

'Fall foul of' means 'doesn't work because of'.

10 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

'Fall foul of' means 'doesn't work because of'.

Merci! :-)

17 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

'Fall foul of' means 'doesn't work because of'.

English idioms, get ya every time.

adding results = modifying dice (this is adding dice with an already determined result to a pool of results)

adding dice before roll =/= modifying dice. Also goes for rolling fewer dice.