I just ran a sort-of three way battle between an Inquisitor, the PCs (mistakenly believed to be allies of the previously mentioned Inquisitor), and a rival High Inquisitor with a pair Death Troopers. Oh, and there was some "scenery" (two stormtroopers and a pair of Imperial Intelligence agents) that got chewed up too. There was some NPC-on-NPC violence resolved with the dice, but the PCs stayed in the starring rolls even as they tried desperately to avoid the conflict. That failed when the Inquisitor went down and the High Inquisitor ordered his Death Troopers to "eliminate the witnesses," most of which were unarmed or only lightly armed. My favorite part: our forsaken padawan that used Misdirect to sneak up to Engaged with a Death Trooper, not to lightsaber him, but so he was close enough that, on his next turn, he could drop Misdirect and use Influence with the mind trick Control Upgrade to force the Death Trooper to fire on his boss. The boss didn't like that one bit.

6 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

I just ran a sort-of three way battle between an Inquisitor, the PCs (mistakenly believed to be allies of the previously mentioned Inquisitor), and a rival High Inquisitor with a pair Death Troopers. Oh, and there was some "scenery" (two stormtroopers and a pair of Imperial Intelligence agents) that got chewed up too. There was some NPC-on-NPC violence resolved with the dice, but the PCs stayed in the starring rolls even as they tried desperately to avoid the conflict. That failed when the Inquisitor went down and the High Inquisitor ordered his Death Troopers to "eliminate the witnesses," most of which were unarmed or only lightly armed. My favorite part: our forsaken padawan that used Misdirect to sneak up to Engaged with a Death Trooper, not to lightsaber him, but so he was close enough that, on his next turn, he could drop Misdirect and use Influence with the mind trick Control Upgrade to force the Death Trooper to fire on his boss. The boss didn't like that one bit.

What stats did you use for a death trooper? I wanted to use some in my game but I wasn't able to find any stats anywhere...

8 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

There was some NPC-on-NPC violence resolved with the dice

What value did that add to the session for the players and you? As opposed to deciding how things would play out and describing it? It seems like resolving NPC vs NPC actions with the dice instead of purely descriptively would be just the players passively watching the GM roll dice for a bit.

On 8/27/2017 at 3:43 PM, Archlyte said:

Does anyone use the challenge and difficulty dice regularly? If so do you find that it keeps the successes and advantages in a lower range?

Ben Robbins' deadpan critique always stuck with me, so on personal scale I've tried out adding difficulty for Ranged (Heavy), Gunnery, Soak and Defense. My group's adventures are low-key so heavy gear is infrequent. But, to your second question, I mean, obviously it suppresses rolls.

50 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

What value did that add to the session for the players and you? As opposed to deciding how things would play out and describing it? It seems like resolving NPC vs NPC actions with the dice instead of purely descriptively would be just the players passively watching the GM roll dice for a bit.

As one of those players involved with the session, let me address that question.

HappyDaze provided our little team with several subtle clues, letting us know that the two inquisitors might not be on the best of terms. We were collaborating with one of the inquisitors to (hopefully) make our situation "better."

We were pretty oblivious to the fact that we were BEING betrayed too.

Having the battle play out tactically allowed us to observe the attack and assess the developing situation as it developed.

We had the option to alter the outcome and jump in at any point to side with either faction. We could have accelerated the demise of the lesser subordinate inquisitor or we could have fought and come to their defense. (We did neither).

And since the PC's were IN THE MIDDLE of the fight (Literally) it was cool seeing how the ebb and flow played out. And while we spent most of the PC's actions "Doing Nothing" there was a lot of duck under cover, prepare defenses, move to stay out of the fight, etc, we were free to participate at any given point. Plus, letting the battle play out with the dice rolls, narrative altered the situation organically and (also) made it easier for us to escape later. Something that might not have happened if the GM was driving his Fiat.

The other cool thing about this initiative system was that ONCE THE BBEG ordered the PC's execution, we were able to respond, in line with the initiative sequence, and react.

In this case, we were half way through our turn and most of the PC's had taken their "Do nothing, cower" action. But my PC had not gone and was lying next to two fallen stormtroopers . . . and their E-11's!

BBEG got a full power blaster bolt in the back for his trouble!

As for stats, IIRC the GM was using pretty standard Storm Trooper stats, but the Armor had a +1 Def (upgraded armor) and each was an adversary level opponent with separate strain & wound threshold track. The troopers were also armed with SE-14r auto blaster pistols (very nasty).

All in all it was a pretty messed up fight. We were only armed with 2 E-11's, two holdout blasters, and the Force Sensitive had his light saber, but (wisely) didn't use it. Although that other PC did pick up the other inquisitor's light saber (After they were downed) and used it off of default abilities.

We were able to take down 1 of the death troopers, which gave us a route to escape. And we took that opportunity! There was NO way we were going to be able to take out the BBEG in that fight and he had another eight Death Troopers securing the 'outer perimeter.' Luckily the BBEG was lamed by the other inquisitor so he wasn't able to pursue us.

Still, when everything was said and done, our team had only 1 unwounded party member when we got out and back to our ship. And we're still not out of the woods (so to speak).

2 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

What value did that add to the session for the players and you? As opposed to deciding how things would play out and describing it? It seems like resolving NPC vs NPC actions with the dice instead of purely descriptively would be just the players passively watching the GM roll dice for a bit.

The players had the ability to influence the outcome. I had not predetermined a winner or a loser. If the dice had "their Inquisitor" come about ahead, so be it. I also used it as a demo of activating and resisting Force powers (one Inq used Unleash, the other fought with Move) because the players are just starting to dip into using them, and I wanted to put it on display. It also helped that the flow of the NPC vs NPC fight set up a few unexpected opportunities, like the fallen Inquisitor's saber landing on the floor within reach of a cowering PC.

4 hours ago, Ender07 said:

What stats did you use for a death trooper? I wanted to use some in my game but I wasn't able to find any stats anywhere...

I used Stormtrooper Sergeants with Heavy Battle Armor and, in this case, armed with SE-14r light repeating blasters (machine pistols), concussion grenades, and vibroknives. Ranged (Light) and Melee skills were both upped to 3. That was plenty enough to make them tough but not unbeatable.

Ah, cool. Sounds like you were caught between a rock and a hard place and had to maneuver quite a bit, not just watch a GM do shadow-puppets.

2 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Ah, cool. Sounds like you were caught between a rock and a hard place and had to maneuver quite a bit, not just watch a GM do shadow-puppets.

I've been gaming a long time, and I GM more often than not. I'd like to think that I'm pretty good at not boring the crap out of my players. Either that, or they're all a bunch of masochists...

On 9/7/2017 at 10:27 AM, Ender07 said:

What stats did you use for a death trooper? I wanted to use some in my game but I wasn't able to find any stats anywhere...

The Death Trooper stats haven't appeared in FFG products yet, though perhaps they will be in the Dawn of Rebellion Sourcebook. Until then, check out Stoogoff. I always have a Stoogoff tab open on my browser when I run a session.

Death Trooper

Death Trooper Commando

Why does the Official Gamemat have 1-10 for initiative? wtf?

38 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

Why does the Official Gamemat have 1-10 for initiative? wtf?

It's made for forward compatibility with the second edition rules.

4 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

It's made for forward compatibility with the second edition rules.

What are these Second Edition rules of what you speak? Is my 400 dollar investment in this game about to be nullified? Also does that mean they realized the initiative system was kind of crap? Why change it if it wasn't

1 minute ago, Archlyte said:

What are these Second Edition rules of what you speak? Is my 400 dollar investment in this game about to be nullified? Also does that mean they realized the initiative system was kind of crap? Why change it if it wasn't

It's FFG. They always allow for a big helping of rat crap in the sausage of their games so they can later milk you for a new set of rules don't promise to have less rat crap, but people keep on hoping.

55 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

Why does the Official Gamemat have 1-10 for initiative? wtf?

Got a link?

Edited: nvm, found it https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/8/17/star-wars-roleplaying-gamemat/

It's just there as a way to track initiative with a token or something. 1 goes first, and it allows for 10 slots. That's more than almost any combat I've ever run

There hasn't been any second edition of the game announced. Their first edition is still under development. They are, however, rereleasing the old d6 rules. The gamemat is not for the d6 ruleset.

1 hour ago, awayputurwpn said:

Got a link?

Edited: nvm, found it https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/8/17/star-wars-roleplaying-gamemat/

It's just there as a way to track initiative with a token or something. 1 goes first, and it allows for 10 slots. That's more than almost any combat I've ever run

Yeah and it made sense once I thought about it for a while. Take the arcane x.x conversion from dice rolls and order it in a .... wait for it ... standard integer number order. Yeah, I feel somewhat vindicated by this.

So was anyone already doing it that way and I just missed it when you posted? Taking the #Successes.#Advantages and converting to a real number without a decimal and then ordering slots?

11 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

So was anyone already doing it that way and I just missed it when you posted? Taking the #Successes.#Advantages and converting to a real number without a decimal and then ordering slots?

Honestly I am not trying to be a jerk here... but these are all of the posts describing the "Success.Advantage" method just from the first page alone.

On 8/26/2017 at 5:27 PM, jnrschulz said:

I count successes as whole numbers and advantages as decimals so:

2 success and one advantage is 2.1

1 success and 3 advantages is 1.3

Triumphs would grant a extra move or action on the players turn.

On 8/26/2017 at 7:32 PM, Hurske said:

I know in the Fantasy Grounds rule set, it acts like what the other poster said, success are whole numbers and advantages are decimals. I figured that's how most would treat it in table play.

On 8/26/2017 at 7:35 PM, kaosoe said:

I learned the "S.A" version when playing in games run by FFG devs (Kat Ostrander, Sam Steward and Freelancer Keith Kappel). So it's not unusual to run it like that.

On 8/26/2017 at 8:19 PM, awayputurwpn said:

That's funny. I worked it out by accident when I started running PbPs and kept track of turns on a spreadsheet. Just seemed like the easiest way to get then sorted numerically. Then I discovered that it made perfect sense!

On 8/26/2017 at 11:17 PM, Richardbuxton said:

Exactly. Simple is just where it starts, both sides don't need the same difficulty and environmental conditions should always play a factor.

Dont do all the work yourself either. Get one of the players to track initiative. It should go something like this:

GM: "Initiative please, Easy Vigilance with 2 Setback"

*Everyone rolls, Gm uses different difficultys for NPC's"

GM: "Does anyone beat 2.3? That's the highest NPC"

PC1: "yeah I got a 3.1"

PC2: "4.0 here"

PC3: "close, but nope"

PC4: "nope

PC5: "nope"

PC1: *Is in charge of Initiative, writes down the first two PC slots then an NPC

GM: "Ok who beats 2.1?"

PC3: "2.2"

PC1: *writes down a PC then NPC slot

GM: "Last NPC is a 0.4, who beat that?"

PC4: "Yep, 1.2"

PC5: "Me too, 1.3"

PC1: *finishes the track. "It's PC, PC, NPC, PC, NPC, PC, PC, NPC"

GM: "ok let's go"

It takes less than a minute if there's enough dice, a little more if some need reuse.

Another tip is when your prepping a session you can preroll all the NPC initiatives you think you may need. It lets you focus a lot more on what the Players are doing.

On 8/27/2017 at 9:20 AM, jnrschulz said:

I played in a demo game with Keith and I saw he used it. I was using it before in my game and was kind of happy someone that worked on the game was using it. I never heard of anyone else using it before then.

On 8/27/2017 at 10:42 AM, themensch said:

I don't know where I picked up S.A either, but I've been using it for years. I actually use S.A.T but the Triumphs function as much as tiebreakers as they do to add something good for the PCs, as Triumphs are wont to do. We've never had a problem with this initiative system, so we'd likely stick with it rather than try to change it lest it impede the spirit of the rules and nullify PC talents.

On 8/27/2017 at 0:06 PM, The Grand Falloon said:

Another vote for the whole S.A method, but I have an old dry-erase, magnetic initiative tracker for D&D. Each player gets a green tile, the bad guys get a red one. Make your roll, write your total, then hand it in. A quick arrangement of the tiles, and we're ready to go.

Some folks also advocate pre-rolling initiative, which would work fine if there are no extenuating circumstances. Have them make, say five Cool rolls and five Vigilance rolls, and put them in order. Whenever you would roll initiative, just cross off the first one. If they need to roll difficulty or setback, they can adjust the prerolls accordingly. Certain talents should wait until the moment, like Rapid Reaction or Foresee. If I roll 2 successes, 1 advantage, and two Dark pips, I shouldn't decide at the beginning of the session if I want to spend those pips. Just roll the Force die when the encounter starts and add it in.

On 8/27/2017 at 0:25 PM, Grimmerling said:

Similar; I've produced a deck of small cards (beige for PCs, blue for opponents, and green for neutrals, single red "End of Round") and put them in FFG's yellow sleeves. When hostilities commence, I hand over the NPC cards (pre-rolled, if possible; all my NPCs descriptions come with one simple initiative roll in advance) to the initiative tracker; they each roll, those who can modify, and write their S-A on the sleeve; then the tracker sorts the cards ("End of Turn" at the bottom). After someone has had their turn, the tracker flips the card to the bottom and announces the next one.

Three I said WITHOUT the decimal lol. But I admit I didn't go back through the thread, you got me.

5 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

Three I said WITHOUT the decimal lol. But I admit I didn't go back through the thread, you got me.

Decimal, Smesh-imal

40 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

Three I said WITHOUT the decimal lol. But I admit I didn't go back through the thread, you got me.

The gamemat has numbers because it's a circle, so you need a start point and end point. Whether you convert the order to integers or not is superfluous, IMO; you always form them into a list, so it doesn't matter if you number them or bullet them or use letters in alphabetical sequence.

I'm just not seeing what's so revelatory about it :/

We do it grouped. NPC roll initiative. If you score the same successes or more than the NPC, you go first. if not, you go later. The players decide the order in which they act inside their bracked every turn. So player A might go first, then player B (and then the NPC). next turn player B assists player A (and declares his action first), and then player A acts.

We do this in all the games we play that use initiative. gives some discretionality to the players without being difficult to implement.

Cheers,
Xavi

2 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

The gamemat has numbers because it's a circle, so you need a start point and end point. Whether you convert the order to integers or not is superfluous, IMO; you always form them into a list, so it doesn't matter if you number them or bullet them or use letters in alphabetical sequence.

I'm just not seeing what's so revelatory about it :/

I think it's a lot different than ordering them strictly by the symbols because yes they do form an order, when you reference it not in a circle like it was in my initial attempt at an initiative chart it's a counterintuitive mess.

I think I may just go to common sense Initiative for some fights and save myself the trouble.

Hey, what's your vigilance? Ok you have a yellow and two greens? Ok that's better than these guys so unless you are doing something slow you win the first slot. What, you are going to try and run up and knife a guy who has a gun pointed at you? Ok you are going after that guy then cause he would squeeze the trigger.

That kind of thing. I would have players get refunded points for skills/ talents that they used for Initiative I Win buttons just to be nice, unless it was a stepping stone.

19 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

Hey, what's your vigilance? Ok you have a yellow and two greens? Ok that's better than these guys so unless you are doing something slow you win the first slot. What, you are going to try and run up and knife a guy who has a gun pointed at you? Ok you are going after that guy then cause he would squeeze the trigger.

That kind of thing. I would have players get refunded points for skills/ talents that they used for Initiative I Win buttons just to be nice, unless it was a stepping stone.

Just ask them how they manage to get the drop on the guy with the gun. Encourage awesomeness instead of imposing arbitrary punishments.