Just now, xerpo said:Maybe it will be the first triple defense token ship in game, 3 contains maybe? why not? hey rebels we got for you brand new stuff!!
I'd never play triple contains. Triple redirect MMMMMAYBE iffffffff it's got a slot for Redundant shields, but this is already getting iffy and Corner case to begin with.
3 minutes ago, geek19 said:I'd never play triple contains. Triple redirect MMMMMAYBE iffffffff it's got a slot for Redundant shields, but this is already getting iffy and Corner case to begin with.
Well is not the first time we see completely absurd stuff. Beggining with the NeB's overall design and the combination of its defense tokens, shields and angles. but thats another thread to discuss. I understand they want to go creative and release new stuff with new mechanics. I remember how crazy it was to see the first ship with engineering 5. I just see that as the game moves on and the ships become better and better, the rebeles are always getting the "stupid" new stuff, while the imps are getting the "useful" new stuff. At least for the last 2 waves.
In Rouge One, it was a tanky ship taking on 2 ISDs. Maybe it's defense tokens would be 2 brace, 1 redirect, and a contain(at least one of each) costing between 100-110pts. Who knows, maybe a new defense token.
5 minutes ago, xerpo said:Well is not the first time we see completely absurd stuff. Beggining with the NeB's overall design and the combination of its defense tokens, shields and angles. but thats another thread to discuss. I understand they want to go creative and release new stuff with new mechanics. I remember how crazy it was to see the first ship with engineering 5. I just see that as the game moves on and the ships become better and better, the rebeles are always getting the "stupid" new stuff, while the imps are getting the "useful" new stuff. At least for the last 2 waves.
I just updated the neb article on our site, and its defense tokens are great at keeping it alive. Keep bracing attacks and engineer as needed. Don't let it get hit by like 5 ships and you'll stay alive
The more I think about it the more I expect this to handle like a pig but be extremely survivable. The rebels' large VSD. Making it a perfect fit for a commander that could, say... drop it in from hyperspace exactly where it wants to be. For example.
Speed 2 with no support slot is conceivably workable in that situation. But it better be tanky as heck, cheap as heck, or both.
40 minutes ago, geek19 said:I just updated the neb article on our site, and its defense tokens are great at keeping it alive. Keep bracing attacks and engineer as needed. Don't let it get hit by like 5 ships and you'll stay alive
The Neb B is seriously underrated. I played it a couple of matches now without titles and its extremely hard to pin down if you attack it with something else than a double arc Glad or a ISD Frontarc. Derlin and Lando do wonders for this ship in particular, especially Derlin for those sidearcs. The key to success with Nebs in my opinion is to use mainly engineering commands. Redirecting those 2 rear shield to the sides is super helpful. Medical Team is also nice to have on Nebs, since its so cheap and most of the time you will get damage in small doses because of the double brace + evade + possibly Derlin, therefore maximizing the odds of Medical Team to be triggered.
Honestly, it kind of feels like the Raider thing all over again to me. Everyone hated it before people understood that you need to fly raiders slow, and "catch" enemy ships with your front arc, then speed up and escape or sacrifice the Raider for another attack next round. Its the same thing with the Nebs. It just plays different than people want it to.
Just my 2 cents about the Neb B, sorry for off-topic comment :-)
Edited by >kkj42 minutes ago, EagleScoutof007 said:In Rouge One, it was a tanky ship taking on 2 ISDs.
A good part of the rebel fleet went if I recall correctly, so not all fire was on it
1 minute ago, Visovics said:A good part of the rebel fleet went if I recall correctly, so not all fire was on it
True, but it was the biggest target. I think the other ships were all small class
4 minutes ago, EagleScoutof007 said:True, but it was the biggest target. I think the other ships were all small class
Indeed, it was the main focus from fighter fire too, "Admiral, shields down at 50%"(Read with Mon Calamari accent)
1 hour ago, geek19 said:I just updated the neb article on our site, and its defense tokens are great at keeping it alive. Keep bracing attacks and engineer as needed. Don't let it get hit by like 5 ships and you'll stay alive
Hmmmm never seen Yavaris activate squads with an Engineering command...
Just now, Undeadguy said:Hmmmm never seen Yavaris activate squads with an Engineering command...
Ha. I know it's heresy to say this, but Yavaris can use other commands on his dials besides squadrons. Engineering for example, on that one turn it would appreciate being alive.
Just now, geek19 said:Ha. I know it's heresy to say this, but Yavaris can use other commands on his dials besides squadrons. Engineering for example, on that one turn it would appreciate being alive.
Only if there are no squads. With Nebs, the best defense is offense. You are better off killing the thing hurting you than trying to heal 1 damage card or that one side shield. Now, if you were to pass Eng tokens, that is much more effective for Yavaris. Either moving shields to the front or healing them on the sides.
I just find Yavaris taking all the attacks when it hits the table. 1 hull won't do anything when Demo rolls up and it's followed by a Raider or ISD.
1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:Only if there are no squads. With Nebs, the best defense is offense. You are better off killing the thing hurting you than trying to heal 1 damage card or that one side shield. Now, if you were to pass Eng tokens, that is much more effective for Yavaris. Either moving shields to the front or healing them on the sides.
I just find Yavaris taking all the attacks when it hits the table. 1 hull won't do anything when Demo rolls up and it's followed by a Raider or ISD.
Oh, true enough. But I've been dropping Salvation last in my current list and it's usually getting hit by at best 1 ship. It usually stays alive better than expected?
1 minute ago, geek19 said:Oh, true enough. But I've been dropping Salvation last in my current list and it's usually getting hit by at best 1 ship. It usually stays alive better than expected?
Crazy enough, I like Repairs on Demo and Insidious. Once they lose 5 shields, it's Repairs and Navs. Same with a Vic. Turn 4-6 is repair. Aint no one taking my ships without a fight.
2 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:
1 hull won't do anything when Demo rolls up and it's followed by a Raider or ISD.
But honestly, what then DOES survice a full Demo activation AND a Raider or ISD? Your expecting things here from a 57 point ship that a hundred points ship like the Liberty probably couldn't handle. (And that ship even has pretty similar defense tokens)
Also, you really dont NEED to fly the Nebs with a title every time. Sure the title is probably always worth it (Redemption is great for Nebs too, btw) but you dont NEED them for a Neb to work great.
(Have played 3 games of 3 Arquitens with Vader against 3 Nebs with Leia/Garm Bel Iblis and the Nebs always won by far. The Arquitens just cant put out enough damage to oneshot a Neb and next turn its back with +1 hull and + 1 shield and has probably turned another hull zone to you.)
1 hour ago, geek19 said:I just updated the neb article on our site, and its defense tokens are great at keeping it alive. Keep bracing attacks and engineer as needed. Don't let it get hit by like 5 ships and you'll stay alive
And what is your solution for being attacked in the side angle with no redirect tokens? I dont know you, but I've played nebs like... 80 games? Its experience talking here. I know the beauty behind defending the undefendable, but mate, your advice is too generic and tasteless. It does not need 5 ships to die, just an alpha strike of bombers on its side hull, a single activation.
8 minutes ago, xerpo said:And what is your solution for being attacked in the side angle with no redirect tokens?
Bracing it to half. Reducing damage by 2 with the 1 shield you have and derlin. Possibly reduce it by another 1 damage with Medical Teams. Still got 5 hull, so you CAN take a few hits. Again, we are talking about a 51/57 point ship here. That is a CR90 with TRCs. Think about how quickly you can oneshot that with even a VSD.
I will admit the Neb is particularly susceptible to bombers. But hey, at least you get 2 AA Dice and lets be real here, every ship gets eaten alive by bombers if you got no defense screen around it. Well, good thing then that we have YAVARIS and can almost garantuee fighter superiority...
Edited by >kkj3 minutes ago, >kkj said:But honestly, what then DOES survice a full Demo activation AND a Raider or ISD? Your expecting things here from a 57 point ship that a hundred points ship like the Liberty probably couldn't handle. (And that ship even has pretty similar defense tokens)
Also, you really dont NEED to fly the Nebs with a title every time. Sure the title is probably always worth it (Redemption is great for Nebs too, btw) but you dont NEED them for a Neb to work great.
(Have played 3 games of 3 Arquitens with Vader against 3 Nebs with Leia/Garm Bel Iblis and the Nebs always won by far. The Arquitens just cant put out enough damage to oneshot a Neb and next turn its back with +1 hull and + 1 shield and has probably turned another hull zone to you.)
Admo, Vics, MC80s, ISDs, AF sometimes. I faced Demo and had it survive my Demo and ER Raider shot. Demo is not as scary as people make it out to be.
Nebs are the only ship I'd say you must take a title for. Otherwise they are garbage. Redemption is over priced for a lack luster effect. Like I said before, Nebs best defense is offense. They are glass cannons and they have 2 very powerful titles.
You're anecdotal evidence is not suffice to sway me. 3 Arqs vs 3 Nebs comes down to how good your red dice roll. And there is no way an Arq 1 shots a Neb, ever. You'd need 3 double hits and 3 Acc into the side arc. Arqs have 3 red dice, +1 from Slaved/EA, +1 CF.
7 minutes ago, xerpo said:And what is your solution for being attacked in the side angle with no redirect tokens? I dont know you, but I've played nebs like... 80 games? Its experience talking here. I know the beauty behind defending the undefendable, but mate, your advice is too generic and tasteless. It does not need 5 ships to die, just an alpha strike of bombers on its side hull, a single activation.
A) don't let it get attacked in the side. Position it/deploy it differently, put a flotilla there, don't rush forward with the thing.
B) bring some actual fighters slash a real fighter screen so you don't get so many bombers in the side. Also see point A.
47 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:
Nebs are the only ship I'd say you must take a title for. Otherwise they are garbage.
And i say you simply are wrong here.
47 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:Nebs best defense is offense. They are glass cannons
No, its exactly the other way around. Sure, Salvation packs a punch but Nebs strenght is their survivability against everything that is in their cost range or a few points higher. And that is what i meant with the Arquitens. I KNOW that it cant oneshot the Neb (just as the Neb cant oneshot the Arquitens) and that is exactly the point: If you cant kill the Neb within one activation you got a problem with it. Dont get me wrong, the Arquitens can survive quite long, especially with Reinforced Blast Doors, but all its defensive tricks are expendable ressources. Redirect just lets you take the damage somewhere else. RBD is a oneshot use, although its very good. All 3 of the Nebs defense tokens simply make damage go away.
People just tend to always fly Yavaris/Salvation because those titles enable you to play standard tactics (squadron pusher/sniper) with a ship that otherwise would be bad a them and therefore people dont realize that its actually quite tanky FOR A SHIP IN ITS COST RANGE. Not against an ISD of course... And if you know what Engineering Teams can do in the right situation, well then you can easily see why having Redemption (and opening up the slot for Medical Teams) on your Nebs might actually be quite good.
Edited by >kkj3 minutes ago, geek19 said:A) don't let it get attacked in the side. Position it/deploy it differently, put a flotilla there, don't rush forward with the thing.
B) bring some actual fighters slash a real fighter screen so you don't get so many bombers in the side. Also see point A.
I think when anyone says "Stay out of arc/stay out of range" as the ideal strategy for something, it's total BS. It's equivalent of saying "You don't take damage if you never engage". Their side arcs are so massive that it's hard not to get caught by an enemy ship. The closer it gets to the fight, the more likely it is to expose it's side arc. Even when you straight up joust with your opponent. On the pass, you're side arc is there.
If you bring Yavaris, you already fulfill point B hahaha
2 minutes ago, >kkj said:And i say you simply are wrong here.
No, its exactly the other way around. Sure, Salvation packs a punch but Nebs strenght is their survivability against everything that is in their cost range or a few points higher. And that is what i meant with the Arguitens. I KNOW that it cant oneshot the Neb (just as the Neb cant oneshot the Arquitens) and that is exactly the point: If you cant kill the Neb within one activation you got a problem with it.
People just tend to always fly Yavaris/Salvation because those titles enable you to play standard tactics (squodron pusher/sniper) with a ship that otherwise would be bad a them and therefore people dont realize that its actually quite tanky FOR A SHIP IN ITS COST RANGE. Not against an ISD of course... And if you know what Engineering Teams can do in the right situation, well then you can easily see why having Redemption and Medical Teams on your Nebs might actually be quite good.
So go fly it.
Just now, Undeadguy said:So go fly it.
I did and won
Also lost multiple times against it
Next you guys are going to try telling me Nebs need to be run with Ackbar.
8 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:I think when anyone says "Stay out of arc/stay out of range" as the ideal strategy for something, it's total BS. It's equivalent of saying "You don't take damage if you never engage". Their side arcs are so massive that it's hard not to get caught by an enemy ship. The closer it gets to the fight, the more likely it is to expose it's side arc. Even when you straight up joust with your opponent. On the pass, you're side arc is there.
If you bring Yavaris, you already fulfill point B hahaha
Stay outta there is generally BS advice, but I HAVE been having good luck positioning and keeping other ships (hammerhead usually) in its sides and somewhat protecting them. It will die if Avenger opens up on it, but the general argument of "points trade up" works I feel.